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GE Exit Poll 10 pm

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    #5432
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,800 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    What do you think are red line issues for SF in coalition negotiations?

    Rent freezes and one month rent back?

    Bring the pension age back to 65 (which is the opposite of every other country in Europe btw).

    3500 more doctors and nurses?

    Free car parking in hospitals?

    Getting rid of prescription charges?

    25% social housing in all new estates?

    Removing the local property tax?

    Real treasure trove of promises there and that’s just off the top of my head.


    A comparison was done the other day in one of the papers and in reality, there isn't a million miles of difference between the FF/SF manifestos which could be thrashed out with some negotiations.

    MM with his pre election guff of not 'dealing with SF' has left this impasse for now, which I believe will be resolved 'in the national interest'.


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    #5433
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭Christy42


    DellyBelly wrote: »
    One plus of the SF doing well is the amount of Tricolours that are flying from a lot of houses over the last week. I used to live in the States and people over there always fly the stars and stripes from their homes and wondered why we didn't do the same thing here. Looks like it may start to happen which is a good thing...

    I always thought it looked incredibly insecure.

    Like I am aware I am in the US. Like if you have to scream and shout about how patriotic you are it seems weird. I don't need a flag every house to scream it at me. I also know houses who had it simply because it was socially unacceptable not to which seems weird. Political events are already hilarious over there. I have 20 large flags behind. Look how patriotic I am damn it!

    A country should be more confident in itself.

    It just always seems unwelcoming to me. Like if you disagree with people you are in trouble. Like the north or how aggressive some Americans can get insisting that the US is the best country ever.

    Specific stuff like celebrating a match or whatever is obviously different.


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    #5434
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    sondagefaux wrote: »
    Or have another general election...

    It looks like Sinn Féin aren't attractive coalition partners for left-wing parties any more than they are for centrist or right-wing parties.

    That being the case, the chances of Sinn Féin getting into government without, in my opinion, at least two-thirds of the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party approving a coalition with SF in principle at its meeting tomorrow, are slim to none.

    Talking doesn't rule out the possibility of a other GE. I honestly can't see FF - FG -SD .


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    #5435
    quokula
    Registered Users Posts: 3,643 ✭✭✭quokula


    Christy42 wrote: »
    I always thought it looked incredibly insecure.

    Like I am aware I am in the US. Like if you have to scream and shout about how patriotic you are it seems weird. I don't need a flag every house to scream it at me. I also know houses who had it simply because it was socially unacceptable not to which seems weird. Political events are already hilarious over there. I have 20 large flags behind. Look how patriotic I am damn it!

    A country should be more confident in itself.

    It just always seems unwelcoming to me. Like if you disagree with people you are in trouble. Like the north or how aggressive some Americans can get insisting that the US is the best country ever.

    Specific stuff like celebrating a match or whatever is obviously different.

    A friend of mine who is South American moved to the US and moved into a house that had a huge American flag in the garden. He was scared to take it down so it stayed there.

    When I lived in the UK the number of English flags on a given estate was a pretty clear marker for how much trouble to expect, especially if you're Irish.

    I don't want that sort of nationalism infecting this country.


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    #5436
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,453 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    DellyBelly wrote: »
    One plus of the SF doing well is the amount of Tricolours that are flying from a lot of houses over the last week. I used to live in the States and people over there always fly the stars and stripes from their homes and wondered why we didn't do the same thing here. Looks like it may start to happen which is a good thing...

    The Flegs ay.

    How the Unionists live their Flegs.


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    #5437
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,404 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    quokula wrote: »
    A friend of mine who is South American moved to the US and moved into a house that had a huge American flag in the garden. He was scared to take it down so it stayed there.

    When I lived in the UK the number of English flags on a given estate was a pretty clear marker for how much trouble to expect, especially if you're Irish.

    I don't want that sort of nationalism infecting this country.

    Don't worry - I don't know anyone who owns an Irish flag. Let's not get carried away with ourselves.


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    #5438
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,208 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    Noticing Sf gene pool getting very ‘thin skinned’ recently, we have guys down Waterford way claiming “We have broken the bastards’ and other stuff reminiscent of the black flag period and “Smash this and smash that “era.

    Then lesser luminaries suggesting “The whole way of doing politics..the nod and wink way of FF and FG has been ushered out the door”


    Then when for once when the spotlight is on the performance of their party, after years of sniping and criticism of those running the country claiming to have all the answers, they get very upset and unable to handle things.

    News for them.....better get used to it, senior hurling now, can’t sit on the fence laughing any longer.:)

    Brendy...the 'senior hurling' thing is old now.

    SF where straight out the gate contacting people for talks and discussion.
    If a government cannot be formed...so be it. Everyone will have to go back to the electorate...that is the bottom line here, and that is putting pressure on everybody.
    FG have gone on the huff after only managing 36 seats and their worst performance since 1948, and are trying to pressure talks that way.
    FF, similarly, were willing to open the door when it looked they'd have a 4 or 5 seat majority, and have shut it again (or have pretended to shut it, by hiding Michael from saying it) now that they don't have that seat majority.

    SF and all the rest are doing what you would expect...talking.
    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    What do you think are red line issues for SF in coalition negotiations?

    Rent freezes and one month rent back?

    Bring the pension age back to 65 (which is the opposite of every other country in Europe btw).

    3500 more doctors and nurses?

    Free car parking in hospitals?

    Getting rid of prescription charges?

    25% social housing in all new estates?

    Removing the local property tax?

    Real treasure trove of promises there and that’s just off the top of my head.


    Personally, I am not a SF strategist or member. I gave them my vote.
    As stated from the get-go here, I had no interest in theirs or anyone else's , glossy manifesto's, (they are constructed and distributed for the politically naive)

    I elected them because I want to see the duopoly of FG and FF broken up (I'd have voted Labour only they let me down the last time or any party that was strong enough in the polls to do that) and because I think generally they will create a fairer society.

    I will comment on a programme for government when I see one.


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    #5439
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,404 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    DellyBelly wrote: »
    One plus of the SF doing well is the amount of Tricolours that are flying from a lot of houses over the last week. I used to live in the States and people over there always fly the stars and stripes from their homes and wondered why we didn't do the same thing here. Looks like it may start to happen which is a good thing...

    No it's not a good thing.

    It's naff and unsightly. Especially 6 months later when you're looking at dirty torn shredded things.


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    #5440
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 18,019 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    Would be surprised if the Greens go anywhere near FF after what happened the last time. Same goes for Labour.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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    #5441
    sondagefaux
    Registered Users Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭sondagefaux


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Talking doesn't rule out the possibility of a other GE. I honestly can't see FF - FG -SD .

    FG/FF/Lab/Green Party...


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    #5442
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,583 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Deleted User wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/results/#/national/laois-offaly

    Carol Nolan seems to be safe now and she would have been SF if they had only let her stand. I assume they will try to re-admit her to the party

    Jus thought if they were to manage this with her and/or Peadar Toibin they would be the biggest party. Ironically this would only reduce their chances of getting into government, as it would mean Mary Lou would have to be at least rotating taoiseach in any deal with FF...


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    #5443
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    sondagefaux wrote: »
    FG/FF/Lab/Green Party...

    What of it? Also haven't Labour already said no?


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    #5444
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    Jus thought if they were to manage this with her and/or Peadar Toibin they would be the biggest party. Ironically this would only reduce their chances of getting into government, as it would mean Mary Lou would have to be at least rotating taoiseach in any deal with FF...

    There is no way these two rejoin SF. SF is pro-choice, they aren't . There is no middle ground


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    #5445
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,174 ✭✭✭limnam


    Mantis Toboggan wrote: »
    Would be surprised if the Greens go anywhere near FF after what happened the last time. Same goes for Labour.


    The greens mantra seems to be it's best to be in goverment than not.


    Regardless of who they're in with so I imagine they'll go in with anyone


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    #5446
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,541 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Shorthall knows an unstable left Govn't is not a club to be a member of. She would have no problem being part of a FF + SF club that has a majority IWT.
    BTW RB Barrett has also said the left haven't the numbers.
    Brid Smith thinks there should be a left minority Govn't, lol.


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    #5447
    pc7
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 14,121 Mod ✭✭✭✭pc7


    Sorry if its been mentioned (can't keep up with thread), is there a time limit for a government to form before we have to vote again? Or could this go on for months? Do they get paid while its being negotiated?


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    #5448
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭Christy42


    I don't think looking for a left wing government is really trying to form one. The numbers are obviously not there and SF know it.

    FF and FG or FF and SF are the only way it works (with some minor party or independents) or we go back to he polls.


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    #5449
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    pc7 wrote: »
    Sorry if its been mentioned (can't keep up with thread), is there a time limit for a government to form before we have to vote again? Or could this go on for months? Do they get paid while its being negotiated?
    The last one took 53 days or so and months is very possible. It goes on until all options have been exhausted and yes they do get paid, because they are TDs.


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    #5450
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    pc7 wrote: »
    Sorry if its been mentioned (can't keep up with thread), is there a time limit for a government to form before we have to vote again? Or could this go on for months? Do they get paid while its being negotiated?

    Time limit is 5 years , the life time of the Dáil otherwise no.


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    #5451
    pc7
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 14,121 Mod ✭✭✭✭pc7


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Time limit is 5 years , the life time of the Dáil otherwise no.


    :eek: hopefully we get a decision sooner than 5 years!


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    #5452
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,583 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Christy42 wrote: »
    I don't think looking for a left wing government is really trying to form one. The numbers are obviously not there and SF know it.

    Eoin O'Broin explicitly said this last night. It's about putting together a broad left grouping to negotiate with FF. If FF are interested...


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    #5453
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    pc7 wrote: »
    :eek: hopefully we get a decision sooner than 5 years!
    The power to dissolve the Dail still remains with the President.

    It's his job to keep an eye on proceedings, and if, in consultation with the Taoiseach (Leo), he forms an opinion that a Government cannot be formed, he will dissolve the Dail and call a new election.

    Obviously it's not a case that Leo can tell the President to call an election, Higgins could meet with Mary-Lou and Martin first to see if anything can be done. Higgins has the power, as has occurred in other jurisdictions, to refuse to dissolve the Dail and tell leaders to get their finger out.


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    #5454
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    seamus wrote: »
    The power to dissolve the Dail still remains with the President.

    It's his job to keep an eye on proceedings, and if, in consultation with the Taoiseach (Leo), he forms an opinion that a Government cannot be formed, he will dissolve the Dail and call a new election.

    Obviously it's not a case that Leo can tell the President to call an election, Higgins would meet with Mary-Lou and Martin first to see if anything can be done. Higgins has the power, as has occurred in other jurisdictions, to refuse to dissolve the Dail and tell leaders to get their finger out.

    The power to call an election rests solely with the Taoiseach as it is them who ask the President to dissolve the Dáil , the President can't act alone.


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    #5455
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    The power to call an election rests solely with the Taoiseach as it is them who ask the President to dissolve the Dáil , the President can't act alone.
    Sorry, you're right of course, I implied that the President could just go ahead and dissolve it. He can't.


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    #5456
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,208 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    Eoin O'Broin explicitly said this last night. It's about putting together a broad left grouping to negotiate with FF. If FF are interested...

    If they succeed in that, and FF refuse, it would be interesting to see what the electorate think.
    Tactically it would be a masterstroke by the left but are they too fractured/hidebound to see it.
    I also think if they managed it, that FG would very quickly come out of their huff.


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    #5457
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 18,019 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    limnam wrote: »
    The greens mantra seems to be it's best to be in goverment than not.


    Regardless of who they're in with so I imagine they'll go in with anyone

    True but i'd imagine that the Social democrats would be more likely to do a deal with FF.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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    #5458
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,583 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    If they succeed in that, and FF refuse, it would be interesting to see what the electorate think.
    Tactically it would be a masterstroke by the left but are they too fractured/hidebound to see it.
    I also think if they managed it, that FG would very quickly come out of their huff.

    The other left parties are a sideshow though. If both FF and SF want to do business the rest of it will happen some way or other. SF putting together some sort of 'common platform' with the other left parties won't have much bearing on Martin's decision (if he hasn't already made it).


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    #5459
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    The other left parties are a sideshow though. If both FF and SF want to do business the rest of it will happen some way or other. SF putting together some sort of 'common platform' with the other left parties won't have much bearing on Martin's decision (if he hasn't already made it).

    Here's a mad idea. FF-Greens (any maybe SD) go into coalition , however before hand the Greens and SF implement a S&C . Does this give MM the wiggle room he needs?


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    #5460
    Openside11
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Openside11


    FrancieBrady wrote:
    I also think if they managed it, that FG would very quickly come out of their huff.

    What huff Jesus we cant be in government forever !!

    FF needs to get over themselves and decide are they Left wing or Right wing and try and help to form some type of government.


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    #5461
    strawdog
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭strawdog


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Here's a mad idea. FF-Greens (any maybe SD) go into coalition , however before hand the Greens and SF implement a S&C . Does this give MM the wiggle room he needs?

    I wouldn't think SF have any strategic interest in a S&C, its power, GE if they can blame the others for it, or all out opposition with a view to smashing them in the next election with more candidates


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