GE Exit Poll 10 pm

efanton

McMurphy wrote: »

I see Brendan Howlin is to step down as leader of the Labour party, was sad to hear that, Brendan come across as a decent sort, he carried himself well in the leaders debates last week.

Totally inevitable.
How a leader of a Labour party could possibly justify his part in pay cuts when he was the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and support a FG government that was diametrically opposed to everything that Labour stood for is totally beyond me.
Far too fond of being a Minister than being an advocate for ordinary workers in my opinion.

He is no loss to Irish politics and him going might be the only hope for a revival of the Labour party, but I seriously doubt that too.

Leroy42

is_that_so wrote: »

They only lost one seat numerically, which they were expected to do. The unexpected departure of the old guard may be a blessing for them as they rebuild.

When there is a mood of change, a change to the left no less, and they still managed to lose a seat, there is noother word except disaster.

Brendan Bendar

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

His brand of relatively realistic and costed social democracy didn’t resonate with the electorate.

That kind of common sense doesn’t usually satisfy the proles,John.

Just listening to RBB waffling about “ordinary people” nobody asked who are these “ordinary people”. Nobody asked who pays for all this.

We all want everything, but Boyd Barrett never seems to explain how this nirvana will be funded.

Somebody will have to pay....

JohnnyFlash

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

His brand of relatively realistic and costed social democracy didn’t resonate with the electorate. I’d agree he always came across as a decent skin.

More likely that the electorate remember Labour in government with FG and that they couldn't trust them.

jos28

SF need FF or FG to form a Government, the numbers do not add up with SF and a gaggle of others.
FF and FG both faced the electorate and stated categorically throughout that they would NOT go into government with SF. MM wants to be Taoiseach and if he even considers a coalition with SF he faces being ousted as leader of FF.
He cannot back pedal even if he wants to. He risks serious division in his own party if he does.

I get the feeling that Leo and MM are sitting back letting SF run out of options and will then step up to the plate with a deal done - FF/FG/GP/SD with MM in the position he wants so badly.

SF will never be accepted as a viable option by FF/FG until they completely dissociate themselves from the likes of Dessie Ellis.

Brendan Bendar

Leroy42 wrote: »

When there is a mood of change, a change to the left no less, and they still managed to lose a seat, there is noother word except disaster.

Still haven’t been forgiven for standing up for the country when it was a basket case.

There are those out there who cannot understand that when things are bad EVERYBODY has to take the hit.

If promises were made and situations arose which made those promises unsustainable one can’t expect to carry on as normal.

Some section of our society can’t get their heads around that simple conception.

Leroy42

Ivan Yates made a very compelling argument for FF/FG and Indos coalition.

The thinking was that either the SF surge was a temporary one that will dissipate over time, particularly if they can delivery on areas such as health and housing.

If it wasn't a temporary "protest" vote and actually does signal a move to the left, then both FF and FG are going to be out of power anyway so may as well get a few more years out of it before SF take over.

JohnnyFlash

DubInMeath wrote: »

More likely that the electorate remember Labour in government with FG and that they couldn't trust them.

Where they did an excellent and thankless job in extraordinarily difficult circumstances. Remember those lads from the IMF? They were hanging around. The Labour Party have never shirked from their responsibilities in maintaining a steady rudder on the good ship Ireland.

FreeThePants

Grayson Tasty Springboard wrote: »

That’s is totally nonsense. FG certainly didn’t **** an entire generation. The country and economy has improved massively under their time in gov.

I am that generation, came out of college right in the recession and they aren’t perfect but FG certainly are still getting my vote. I certainly don’t feel like I was f*cked over nor would I see anyone I know in my friends and family say they were. All my peers are working, good jobs with good incomes, vast majority own their own homes or are currently buying or building etc.

No doubt people are struggling to rent or buy in Dublin but that ain’t the governments fault no matter how much people try to blame them for it.

SF on the other hand I can only see impacting us in a negative way. More tax, less job opportunities etc etc.

My point was in reference to FF. They destroyed this country to the pint we were hit worse than just about any country in the planet in 2008, and basically sat on their hands rather than even bothering to try and fix things.

IF FG were willing to go into power with them less than a decade later (which they were, and did) then I can't take their refusal to work with SF in good faith whatsoever. They just don't want the Apple cart being upset, to be frank, and they're only hurting themselves I nthe long run over this.

Plumbthedepths

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

That kind of common sense doesn’t usually satisfy the proles,John.

Just listening to RBB waffling about “ordinary people” nobody asked who are these “ordinary people”. Nobody asked who pays for all this.

We all want everything, but Boyd Barrett never seems to explain how this nirvana will be funded.

Somebody will have to pay....

Why use such a derogatory term as 'proles' to describe others who have a different life outlook than you.
Such language speaks volumes as to your character or rather lack of.....

Plumbthedepths

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Why use such a derogatory term as 'proles' to describe others who have a different life outlook than you.
Such language speaks volumes as to your character or rather lack of.....

But when an outlook is so so wrong strong terms are needed.

I can tell you people who voted for SF are being called far far worse by everyone I interact with be it family, friends or work colleagues etc. I’d probably be banned if I said the stuff I’m saying or repeated what others are saying on the topic.

It’s being toned down big time for here.

CatFromHue

One of the things that really screwed us in the recession was that in the previous decade public spending had increased on unsustainable income, construction related income.

Even with no money to accounted for the banks the govt was in a major problems with its income.

SF's manifesto has ignored this issue completely, the other parties were happy to ignore it too just not to the same degree. People can blame FF for "destroying" the country but by voting in SF with their manifesto in they're just repeating the boom bust cycle.

Ush1

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

His brand of relatively realistic and costed social democracy didn’t resonate with the electorate. I’d agree he always came across as a decent skin.

Howlin was a reasonable lefty I could respect and listen to. Measured and thoughtful, very different to most of the modern left.

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Where they did an excellent and thankless job in extraordinarily difficult circumstances. Remember those lads from the IMF? They were hanging around. The Labour Party have never shirked from their responsibilities in maintaining a steady rudder on the good ship Ireland.

Sounds like the perfect time to fritter away millions on a quango, with crony board appointments and a sweet deal (still under investigation) at a loss to the tax payer. Not to mention Reilly's clinics.

sondagefaux

McMurphy wrote: »

All hypothetically of course.

And yet FG based their campaign on slinging mud at SF instead of FF who actually have form in all of the above.

Turn your sarcasm detector on.

FreeThePants

CatFromHue wrote: »

One of the things that really screwed us in the recession was that in the previous decade public spending had increased on unsustainable income, construction related income.

Even with no money to accounted for the banks the govt was in a major problems with its income.

SF's manifesto has ignored this issue completely, the other parties were happy to ignore it too just not to the same degree. People can blame FF for "destroying" the country but by voting in SF with their manifesto in they're just repeating the boom bust cycle.

For the record I am not in the country at the moment, and if I were I probably would have voted FG and/or SD.

They have addressed public spending though, which includes ending the use of agencies for gov't roles (I worked for the HSE before and for every Euro I got the recruitment company got an additional 50c... anyone who works in recruitment knows that is nothing short of an insane Bil pay rate to bill rate), reducing pay for TDs, senators, ministers and the Taoiseach, excluding abnormally low bidders for co dtructikn products and black listing those with previous poor performance on government jobs, a view towards public ownership of various services and infrastructure, and introducing higher tax rates/less or no credits to those above a €140,000.

Now the viability of these can certainly be called into question, but to say they entirely ignored it is incorrect.

Plumbthedepths

Grayson Tasty Springboard wrote: »

But when an outlook is so so wrong strong terms are needed.

I can tell you people who voted for SF are being called far far worse by everyone I interact with be it family, friends or work colleagues etc. I’d probably be banned if I said the stuff I’m saying or repeated what others are saying on the topic.

It’s being toned down big time for here.

The question wasn't asked of you, it was asked of the person who uttered it.
I'm not interested in your anecdotes false or otherwise.
Btw 1 in 4 voted for SF so it's logical to assume those you interact contain at least a few SF voters. Carry on with your nonsense if you wish or go and have another pint, it seems to be what you love to spend your time at.

FreeThePants

Grayson Tasty Springboard wrote: »

But when an outlook is so so wrong strong terms are needed.

I can tell you people who voted for SF are being called far far worse by everyone I interact with be it family, friends or work colleagues etc. I’d probably be banned if I said the stuff I’m saying or repeated what others are saying on the topic.

It’s being toned down big time for here.

Doesn't achieve much of anything though, does it? It just leads to further polarisation which can eventually lead to dystopian situations like the US or UK over recent years. Calling you a brownshirt fascist for voting FG (who I may well have voted for last week were I in the country) would be the same, it really contributes f*** all to the conversation and leads us all down the road of identity politics, where people view politics in the same way they do a Man Utd-Liverpool type sporting rivalry.

It's a real slippery slope that doesn't end well.

JohnnyFlash

Ush1 wrote: »

Howlin was a reasonable lefty I could respect and listen to. Measured and thoughtful, very different to most of the modern left.

Absolutely Ush. As a FG voter of a certain vintage I’ve always been very comfortable with going into coalition with Labour. Pragmatic and principled people for the most part.

Indeed I’d go so far as to say that a FG/Labour government is the optimal one this country can have.

Plumbthedepths

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Absolutely Ush. As a FG voter of a certain vintage I’ve always been very comfortable with going into coalition with Labour. Pragmatic and principled people for the most part.

Indeed I’d go so far as to say that a FG/Labour government is the optimal one this country can have.

Labour was a very effective 'mudguard' for FG in 2016, which has probably caused the terminal demise of the party.

Tony EH

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Labour was a very effective 'mudguard' for FG in 2016, which has probably caused the terminal demise of the party.

Exactly. The way they were used by FG to sell the worst of their policies, I cannot see their voter base being that enthused to have them back in bed with Fine Gael any time soon.

Brendan Bendar

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Why use such a derogatory term as 'proles' to describe others who have a different life outlook than you.
Such language speaks volumes as to your character or rather lack of.....

Saying it as it is Mr Pee, saying it as it is.

Lot of folk getting very thin skinned recently.

Could they be the same folk who were disbursing the bile not so long ago, I have to wonder.

What did a lad say on the radio tonight.

I’ll paraphrase.....‘ Labour were the firefighters trying to help put out the fire and being attacked by the arsonists‘

You might do well to have a good think about that, compadre.

CatFromHue

FreeThePants wrote: »

For the record I am not in the country at the moment, and if I were I probably would have voted FG and/or SD.

They have addressed public spending though, which includes ending the use of agencies for gov't roles (I worked for the HSE before and for every Euro I got the recruitment company got an additional 50c... anyone who works in recruitment knows that is nothing short of an insane Bil pay rate to bill rate), reducing pay for TDs, senators, ministers and the Taoiseach, excluding abnormally low bidders for co dtructikn products and black listing those with previous poor performance on government jobs, a view towards public ownership of various services and infrastructure, and introducing higher tax rates/less or no credits to those above a €140,000.

Now the viability of these can certainly be called into question, but to say they entirely ignored it is incorrect.

The Fiscal Advisory Council warnings have been ignored under FG's run. None of the opposition parties were that pushed about highlighting these warnings.

In a best case scenario, with everything going amazing, there may be 11bn to spend.

SF have decided to commit to 19bn, with the extra 8bn coming from unsustainable means.

Plumbthedepths

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Saying it as it is Mr Pee, saying it as it is.

Lot of folk getting very thin skinned recently.

Could they be the same folk who were disbursing the bile not so long ago, I have to wonder.

What did a lad say on the radio tonight.

I’ll paraphrase.....‘ Labour were the firefighters trying to help put out the fire and being attacked by the arsonists‘

You might do well to have a good think about that, compadre.

Brendan to use a derogatory term such as you have to describe thousands of your fellow citizens speaks volumes as to a low character and then to use the childish defence "mmm ..he did it first" . Pathetic and I would have thought beneath you, guess I was wrong. Puts any future comments you make in a different light.

JohnnyFlash

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Labour was a very effective 'mudguard' for FG in 2016, which has probably caused the terminal demise of the party.

The country was bankrupt and broke in 2011. Labour didn’t shirk from their responsibilities and entered a government. During that time we started to patch the country together and implemented significant social reform.

That’s leadership.

Plumbthedepths

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The country was bankrupt and broke in 2011. Labour didn’t shirk from their responsibilities and entered a government. During that time we started to patch the country together and implemented significant social reform.

That’s leadership.

Do you remember 'all the little cuts ' campaign Labour ran to cut your parties lead Enda was heading towards a landslide, eventhough they knew how bad things were.( Labour and the rest of the opposition got access to the books before the election) . Labour was only about getting into government and told lies to do so, but as I said they took the heat off FG in 2016.

is_that_so

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Do you remember 'all the little cuts ' campaign Labour ran to cut your parties lead Enda was heading towards a landslide, even though they knew how bad things were.( Labour and the rest of the opposition got access to the books before the election) . Labour was only about getting into government and told lies to do so, but as I said they took the heat off FG in 2016.

Labour were to blame for Labour's demise as per usual. Had they been less adamant about "putting manners on FG" and placed more emphasis on managing expectations they might not have fared quite so badly but Gilmore couldn't help himself. The Spring tide aside, Labour have generally not fared too badly out of working with their natural coalition partners down the years.

listermint

Grayson Tasty Springboard wrote: »

But when an outlook is so so wrong strong terms are needed.

I can tell you people who voted for SF are being called far far worse by everyone I interact with be it family, friends or work colleagues etc. I’d probably be banned if I said the stuff I’m saying or repeated what others are saying on the topic.

It’s being toned down big time for here.

I know it's gas the irony of it all. You can't see how utterly arrogant you are being. So arrogant that you admit voting for FG since you were a teenager. Surrounding yourself with fg friends and family.

Is there anything worse than party families in Ireland you know the type of real morons who vote for the party regardless of what policies they have. Never changing its actually a really sickening act of idiocy.


Any right minded person would scoff at them

Doctor Jimbob

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Absolutely Ush. As a FG voter of a certain vintage I’ve always been very comfortable with going into coalition with Labour. Pragmatic and principled people for the most part.

Indeed I’d go so far as to say that a FG/Labour government is the optimal one this country can have.

It's a pity Labour have become such a mess. A strong labour party would have easily been my first preference vote.

Brendan Bendar

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It's a pity Labour have become such a mess. A strong labour party would have easily been my first preference vote.

Not really their fault Dr.

Bit like folk going into a shop in the good times and getting free sweeties.

Then when the bad times come around getting extremely shirty that they now have to pay a few cent for them.

With attitudes like that very hard to keep things on the straight and narrow.