GE Exit Poll 10 pm

Plumbthedepths

is_that_so wrote: »

Labour were to blame for Labour's demise as per usual. Had they been less adamant about "putting manners on FG" and placed more emphasis on managing expectations they might not have fared quite so badly but Gilmore couldn't help himself. The Spring tide aside, Labour have generally not fared too badly out of working with their natural coalition partners down the years.

Great mudguard though, would you not agree?

efanton

FreeThePants wrote: »

For the record I am not in the country at the moment, and if I were I probably would have voted FG and/or SD.

They have addressed public spending though, which includes ending the use of agencies for gov't roles (I worked for the HSE before and for every Euro I got the recruitment company got an additional 50c... anyone who works in recruitment knows that is nothing short of an insane Bil pay rate to bill rate), reducing pay for TDs, senators, ministers and the Taoiseach, excluding abnormally low bidders for co dtructikn products and black listing those with previous poor performance on government jobs, a view towards public ownership of various services and infrastructure, and introducing higher tax rates/less or no credits to those above a €140,000.

Now the viability of these can certainly be called into question, but to say they entirely ignored it is incorrect.

Edit: apologies, responded to wrong post.

Brendan Bendar

efanton wrote: »

Maybe you should actually read the SF manifesto, rather than give misinformed opinions?

Yes SF want to spend more on housing, health and education, and freeze rents until a more permanent solution for the exorbitant rental market can be found, but that is exactly what people voted for and want.

They are not spending imaginary money, they were honest and up front that they will be raising taxation in various areas to achieve that.

What good is a recovering economy if most families see absolutely no benefit, and for many more a dramatically negative impact on their income and spending. A recovering economy is absolutely pointless if the population sees no benefit at all.

FG have been squandering BILLIONS of euro since they took office and yet not one service has improved. You might forgive them if one thing had changed for the better, but they have achieved absolutely nothing.

What the people want and what a country can afford are two different things, my friend.

Galwayguy35

Boyd Barrett didn't seem that pushed at all today about the chance to be part of a Government.

Sure it's a lot easier to shout from the other side of the chamber and not have to do anything unpoplur to fix the problems facing the country.

Speaking of fixing things it would be nice if SF could give us a rough idea how they will solve the health crises.

efanton

CatFromHue wrote: »

One of the things that really screwed us in the recession was that in the previous decade public spending had increased on unsustainable income, construction related income.

Even with no money to accounted for the banks the govt was in a major problems with its income.

SF's manifesto has ignored this issue completely, the other parties were happy to ignore it too just not to the same degree. People can blame FF for "destroying" the country but by voting in SF with their manifesto in they're just repeating the boom bust cycle.

Maybe you should actually read the SF manifesto, rather than give misinformed opinions?

Yes SF want to spend more on housing, health and education, and freeze rents until a more permanent solution for the exorbitant rental market can be found, but that is exactly what people voted for and want.

They are not spending imaginary money, they were honest and up front that they will be raising taxation in various areas to achieve that.

What good is a recovering economy if most families see absolutely no benefit, and for many more a dramatically negative impact on their income and spending. A recovering economy is absolutely pointless if the population sees no benefit at all.

FG have been squandering BILLIONS of euro since they took office and yet not one service has improved. You might forgive them if one thing had changed for the better, but they have achieved absolutely nothing.

efanton

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

What the people want and what a country can afford are two different things, my friend.

No they are not, and never have been.

They country can well afford everything in the SF manifesto, or any other party's manifesto.

Last year FG spent close to €80 Billion.
To what or whose benefit I ask you?

If you want to spend more money on one thing then its obvious that either there needs to be more taxation or better still that you reduce spending in one area so that you can increase spending in another. SF proposed both in order to ensure that what they wanted to do was possible.

Galwayguy35

I'd hardly call having nearly full employment and the fastest growing economy in Eurpoe achieving nothing.

freshpopcorn

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Boyd Barrett didn't seem that pushed at all today about the chance to be part of a Government.

Sure it's a lot easier to shout from the other side of the chamber and not have to do anything unpoplur to fix the problems facing the country.

Speaking of fixing things it would be nice if SF could give us a rough idea how they will solve the health crises.

It's interesting enough. If we have another election and SF run more candidates. PBP seats could be hit. So, they may be hoping to coast along for another few years.

Muahahaha

McMurphy wrote: »

I see Brendan Howlin is to step down as leader of the Labour party, was sad to hear that, Brendan come across as a decent sort, he carried himself well in the leaders debates last week.

Id agree that he came across as a decent sort but lift the veil and things seem very different

Why are our politicians so bad at things like housing and health?

Here is my favourite-ever quote from a politician. It's from Brendan Howlin, the current Minister for Thrashing the Social Infrastructure.

No, it's not the quote from 2011, just before the election, when he asked for our votes and told us: "We are against water charges."

No, it's from an interview Brendan gave about a decade after he was Minister for Health. Being a thoughtful man, he had spent some time reflecting on his experience in coalition. He wondered why he and others had failed to deliver "a first-class public health system".

He had since realised, he told author Maev-Ann Wren:"If we did that, there would be no reason for sustaining a private system."

And the right-wing want a thriving private health market. They want, according to Brendan, around 30pc of people to pay for private health products.

However, he said: "In order for that to happen, they really required the public [health] system to be inferior. Why else, if it was first-rate, would people pay for a private system?"

That's the sound of a penny dropping.

It dawned on Brendan, in between shifts as a prop for right-wing governments, that such governments are obsessively committed to cutting state spending and generating profits for private investors.

Sometimes, the failure to provide accommodation to match the needs of the citizens, or the failure to provide for the medical needs of the sick, seems a result of incompetence beyond belief.

It's not. It's the result of efforts to meet those needs while protecting the rights and opportunities of those who profit from the market.

It's your friendly right-wing politics in action.

Belatedly, it dawned on Brendan Howlin. As Minister for Health, he could not take only our medical needs into account - the Cabinet and the civil service and the rest of the free-market clergy would ensure that he would do so only if it involved a nice little earner for private investors.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/fiddling-while-the-homeless-get-colder-34179628.html

Howlin is part of the same cabaal as Gilmore, Rabbitte and Burton. None of them wanted to change or improve things, they only wanted power for powers sake. He's the definition of a career politician who has spent decades in Leinster House just going through the motions and picking up the cheques without ever upsetting the apple cart.

efanton

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I'd hardly call having nearly full employment and the fastest growing economy in Eurpoe achieving nothing.

I'm not arguing that the economy has not improved.

THe so called 'full emplyoment ' is pure baloney. Substract all those on zero contract hours, jobsbridge, apprenticeships , and the schemes they have for the long term unemployed and its no where close to full employment, but it still has to be admitted that employment rates have improved

But as I asked what is the point of an improved economy if the vast majority of the population has not benefited. In fact I know of numerous people that were better off in 2011 immediately after the crash. The cost of living has gone through the roof with increased housing cost, increased insurance premium, increased cost of child care and many other things.

Any fool at all can put a budget together where the economy will grow. The trick to a good budget is to also ensure that the tax payer also benefits in some way and at that you would have to admit FG did an absolutely appalling job.
Name one service that has significantly improved during the last 8 years?
Yet FG have pumped billions into various services and all of them have got significantly worse. Hardly what you would call fiscally prudent now is it?
But we know where most of that money went, not into improving public services but trying to privatise parts of the public services through ill thought out contracts and schemes.

ILoveYourVibes

Lets be honest. They were all too conventional to do what was necessary. Too middle class. Too boring and too ...meh.

Mantis Toboggan

is_that_so wrote: »

There is a rumour, third-hand at best I'll admit, that FF, FG and the Greens have been talking or are planning to talk about government formation!

Problem with this is FF seem to be gone into hiding again and FG are sitting on their hands like the last 4 years or government.

I don't expect anything to be sorted this side of Paddy's day.

Itssoeasy

I’ve just listened back to the part of Sean o rourkes show from earlier today and it has Louise o Reilly of Sinn Féin and Michael Creed of FG and brid smith of PBP and the FF TD from Donegal who got himself into a bit of a repeat cycle.

Anyway Louise O Reilly was grand and it was clear what her position was and that was grand. Brid smith said the country wanted change and there should be a left government, but she said it seems FF and FG will sit on the sidelines and not try to fix the mess they made. Why are the left wing parties bringing up FF and FG ? They put their position to the people and they got their mandate but again FF and FG were mentioned.

Mary Lou McDonald has said her preference was a government led by Sinn Fein without the other two. I know the parties of the left are a bit scattered into groups but there if not a majority government there is a minority one there so let them get that if they can.

listermint

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I’ve just listened back to the part of Sean o rourkes show from earlier today and it has Louise o Reilly of Sinn Féin and Michael Creed of FG and brid smith of PBP and the FF TD from Donegal who got himself into a bit of a repeat cycle.

Anyway Louise O Reilly was grand and it was clear what her position was and that was grand. Brid smith said the country wanted change and there should be a left government, but she said it seems FF and FG will sit on the sidelines and not try to fix the mess they made. Why are the left wing parties bringing up FF and FG ? They put their position to the people and they got their mandate but again FF and FG were mentioned.

Mary Lou McDonald has said her preference was a government led by Sinn Fein without the other two. I know the parties of the left are a bit scattered into groups but there if not a majority government there is a minority one there so let them get that if they can.

You need 80 to form a government



80.

efanton

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Boyd Barrett didn't seem that pushed at all today about the chance to be part of a Government.

Sure it's a lot easier to shout from the other side of the chamber and not have to do anything unpoplur to fix the problems facing the country.

Speaking of fixing things it would be nice if SF could give us a rough idea how they will solve the health crises.

Boyd-Barrett I think is being pragmatic. If it had been the case where SF could form a coalition with the PBP, SD, Lab, Green, Aontu I think he would have jumped at the chance. But as the numbers stand they would need at least 15 independents as well, and we all know how reliable independents can be in government. As much as you have to admire SF for actually trying to cobble together a left of centre government it simply is not going to happen, and even if it did happen we would be at the polling booths again in less than a year.

Had SF actually fielded more candidates, got agreement with other parties to encourage tactical exchanges of preference votes then I'm sure he and the other smaller parties would have been banging at Mary Lou's door. Sadly that will have to wait for the next general election, but make no mistake that's exactly what will happen. In the next general election the numbers of Independents will be decimated, and both SF and the smaller parties will increase their number of seats because the transfers that were wasted in this election will not be in the next.

Brendan Bendar

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I’ve just listened back to the part of Sean o rourkes show from earlier today and it has Louise o Reilly of Sinn Féin and Michael Creed of FG and brid smith of PBP and the FF TD from Donegal who got himself into a bit of a repeat cycle.

Anyway Louise O Reilly was grand and it was clear what her position was and that was grand. Brid smith said the country wanted change and there should be a left government, but she said it seems FF and FG will sit on the sidelines and not try to fix the mess they made. Why are the left wing parties bringing up FF and FG ? They put their position to the people and they got their mandate but again FF and FG were mentioned.

Mary Lou McDonald has said her preference was a government led by Sinn Fein without the other two. I know the parties of the left are a bit scattered into groups but there if not a majority government there is a minority one there so let them get that if they can.

Because they are scared schidtless of having to take power.

Plumbthedepths

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I’ve just listened back to the part of Sean o rourkes show from earlier today and it has Louise o Reilly of Sinn Féin and Michael Creed of FG and brid smith of PBP and the FF TD from Donegal who got himself into a bit of a repeat cycle.

Anyway Louise O Reilly was grand and it was clear what her position was and that was grand. Brid smith said the country wanted change and there should be a left government, but she said it seems FF and FG will sit on the sidelines and not try to fix the mess they made. Why are the left wing parties bringing up FF and FG ? They put their position to the people and they got their mandate but again FF and FG were mentioned.

Mary Lou McDonald has said her preference was a government led by Sinn Fein without the other two. I know the parties of the left are a bit scattered into groups but there if not a majority government there is a minority one there so let them get that if they can.

A minority lead government needs opposing parties to abstain or give C and S, who do you suggest will fill these roles.
The claims here today are beyond idiocy, to call them juvenile would be an insult to actual juveniles.
Even one poster claiming SF are going to build 100,000 houses for 6.5 million euro.

Plumbthedepths

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Because they are scared schidtless of having to take power.

Explain please how Marylou can form a government without 80 TD's and neither FG/FF willing to offer support.
Now a sensible answer please or just ignore the question.

Brendan Bendar

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Explain please how Marylou can form a government without 80 TD's and neither FG/FF willing to offer support.
Now a sensible answer please or just ignore the question.

Last I heard ML wants a govt without Ff or Fg.

efanton

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Because they are scared schidtless of having to take power.

Why to FG and FF portray them selves as the sensible parties, and yet their supporters portray themselves as anything but sensible?

If the numbers are not there to make a majority then there is no possibility of a SF lead government. Its that simple and you know it.
Otherwise FG and FF would be trying to form minority governments themselves

Are Leo and Martin offering a stability deal, because if FF and FG want to see SF form a government without a majority then surely that would be on offer already.

The only ones who are running sh!tless are you call it are Leo and Michael Martin. Both of them are hanging on for dear life to keep their leadership positions, but the truth is give it a few months and both will be cut loose.

Plumbthedepths

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Last I heard ML wants a govt without Ff or Fg.

So no answer to what I asked you. Carry on.

efanton

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

A minority lead government needs opposing parties to abstain or give C and S, who do you suggest will fill these roles.
The claims here today are beyond idiocy, to call them juvenile would be an insult to actual juveniles.
Even one poster claiming SF are going to build 100,000 houses for 6.5 million euro.

No get it right, that's an ADDITIONAL 6.5 BILLION to the already existing budget FG have allocated for house building

Plumbthedepths

efanton wrote: »

No get it right, that's an ADDITIONAL 6.5 BILLION to the already existing budget FG have allocated for house building

You mean Splinter 65 was wrong when she claimed SF was going to build houses for €6,500? Damn I wanted to buy two, one for each of my sons. They're both stuck renting.

Loafing Oaf

FF/FG/Green and FF/SF/Green now 7/2 joint favourites with Paddy Power to be the next government. Everything else double-figure odds...

Plumbthedepths

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

FF/FG/Green and FF/SF/Green now 7/2 joint favourites with Paddy Power to be the next government. Everything else double-figure odds...

FF/FG/Green would be the most likely considering how vehemently several FF TD's are against coalition with SF. Jack Chambers and J O' Callahan two of the more vocal.

Galwayguy35

efanton wrote: »

Boyd-Barrett I think is being pragmatic. If it had been the case where SF could form a coalition with the PBP, SD, Lab, Green, Aontu I think he would have jumped at the chance. But as the numbers stand they would need at least 15 independents as well, and we all know how reliable independents can be in government. As much as you have to admire SF for actually trying to cobble together a left of centre government it simply is not going to happen, and even if it did happen we would be at the polling booths again in less than a year.

Had SF actually fielded more candidates, got agreement with other parties to encourage tactical exchanges of preference votes then I'm sure he and the other smaller parties would have been banging at Mary Lou's door. Sadly that will have to wait for the next general election, but make no mistake that's exactly what will happen. In the next general election the numbers of Independents will be decimated, and both SF and the smaller parties will increase their number of seats because the transfers that were wasted in this election will not be in the next.

I wouldn't put money on SF increasing their number of seats in the next election if they are part of the new Government, whether they like it or not part of running the country is making some decisions people won't like and they could get a battering for it from the voters.

Something the Greens might want to think about as well if they are also part of the next Government, twenty somethings in the leafy suburbs might be happy with carbon taxes etc but once the reality of them sets in with others they could also get a hammering.

limnam

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Because they are scared schidtless of having to take power.

Hehe.

Yeah. Coming in after a FF who bankrupted the country and a FG who's hiding cervical cancer results from dieing women and parlising homeless people on the canal.

The pressure to perform is really on.

Idbatterim

efanton wrote: »

Why to FG and FF portray them selves as the sensible parties, and yet their supporters portray themselves as anything but sensible?

If the numbers are not there to make a majority then there is no possibility of a SF lead government. Its that simple and you know it.
Otherwise FG and FF would be trying to form minority governments themselves

Are Leo and Martin offering a stability deal, because if FF and FG want to see SF form a government without a majority then surely that would be on offer already.

The only ones who are running sh!tless are you call it are Leo and Michael Martin. Both of them are hanging on for dear life to keep their leadership positions, but the truth is give it a few months and both will be cut loose.

sensible parties that remove people from the tax net every year and constantly increases expenditure. Dont care about value for money and that the health black hole etc, is being funded by possibly unsustainable corporation tax returns? That sensible? LOL!

Idbatterim

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Last I heard ML wants a govt without Ff or Fg.

the bloody delusional morons, probably figured by saying this pre election; that he would win more seats. was the delusional fool expecting a majority? the 38 seats or whatever they have, are 38 too much as it is :rolleyes:

Shout out for all the FF voters out there, bitch about SF , but who votes back in, proven failure?! :rolleyes:

ddarcy

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

FF/FG/Green would be the most likely considering how vehemently several FF TD's are against coalition with SF. Jack Chambers and J O' Callahan two of the more vocal.

Not sure of the party rules, but do the membership have to agree with coalition? I thought that was the case with FF anyways and maybe FG too