GE Exit Poll 10 pm

Yurt2

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I'd prefer to avoid painting with too broad of a brush. Plenty of FG voters in my work and social circle who I certainly wouldn't attribute that attitude to. I feel a lot more comfortable commenting on the party image rather than individual supporters.

That's fair, it's not every member of FG.

But, I think it's not an unreasonable statement to say that Leo's leadership style and rhetoric cultivated and encouraged some of the less attractive aspects of the party culture.

McMurphy

This is it wrote: »

You haven't seen anyone here moaning about FG being OK with being in opposition?

I'm on my phone now but I'll easily find a few posts later if you need me to.

The only people I see "moaning" about them not being back in govt are their supporters.

You're mixing up people giving out at their steadfast determination to walk away with the ball without trying to even think about a possible role they could play in shaping the outlook of the next govt.

This is it

McMurphy wrote: »

The only people I see "moaning" about them not being back in govt are their supporters.

You're mixing up people giving out at their steadfast determination to walk away with the ball without trying to even think about a possible role they could play in shaping the outlook of the next govt.

No, there's no mix up. FG were voted out, sent packing, kicked to the kerb apparently. When they say fair enough, we'll head to the opposition sidelines you hear the outrage, how dare they...

Edit, to add, if you're reading any of the various Threads it's there to be seen. You're willfully ignoring them for whatever reason. I'll fire some up later.

Plumbthedepths

Looks like FG can't even land the lead opposition party title, FF going to steal their thunder.
Keep the posters handy lads and lasses. GE mark 2 unless they cop on and grow up.




https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/martin-now-on-the-brink-as-howlin-is-first-leader-to-fall-38952700.html

Yurt2

This is it wrote: »

No, there's no mix up. FG were voted out, sent packing, kicked to the kerb apparently. When they say fair enough, we'll head to the opposition sidelines you hear the outrage, how dare they...

Their enthusiasm to do so when coalition permutations haven't shaken out yet would make you wonder about their self-stated appetite to take responsibility. No party commands a majority and you'd think people who entrusted their vote to FG would like expression given to their interests in Leinster House to the maximum extent possible.

As I said, when and if FF decide they won't play ball with SF (FWIW I think this coalition option is the least worst for the country at the moment), all eyes will be back on FG leadership and the public will be scratching their heads why they're heading back to the national school with their ballot papers because FG wont swallow their pride and take the junior role in government.

Further electoral punishment will come their way if that comes to pass.

McMurphy

This is it wrote: »

No, there's no mix up. FG were voted out, sent packing, kicked to the kerb apparently. When they say fair enough, we'll head to the opposition sidelines you hear the outrage, how dare they...

Again.

Who.

Is.

Saying this?

How do you think the electorate will look on FG/FF if they refuse to either:

go into govt together, with one or two more small party's.

Or go into coalition with SF either in a SF/FG/any other (s) or FF/SF/any other(s)

The numbers are not there for a broad left coalition, I repeat the numbers are not there, so it has to be one of the 3 scenarios.

We seen how the public reacted when they tried to lock them out of the debates as if they weren't even worth considering, if they work in unison, or separately to try and lock them out of govt, or else form one themselves, they won't respond any more favourably imo.

So I hate to break it to you - but it's one of the above or back to the polls.

With the likes of Leo/Paschal etc scraping over the lines in vote counts, I don't think a new election will be relished by many in FG or FF.

Both party's got their wings clipped, trying to frustrate the formation of any new govt because the cards didn't land in their favour will do neither any favours.

Loafing Oaf

Yurt! wrote: »

Tall eyes will be back on FG leadership and the public will be scratching their heads why they're heading back to the national school with their ballot papers because FG wont swallow their pride and take the junior role in government.

Further electoral punishment will come their way if that comes to pass.

Where are you getting that FG are taking this line?

Simon Harris says offer of grand coalition with Fianna Fail still stands

The blockage to an FF-FG deal is very much at the other end
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/martin-now-on-the-brink-as-howlin-is-first-leader-to-fall-38952700.html

However, senior frontbench Fianna Fáil TDs, including deputy leader Dara Calleary, Barry Cowen, Darragh O'Brien and Willie O'Dea, are opposed to entering into coalition with either Sinn Féin or Fine Gael.

Yurt2

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Where are you getting that FG are taking this line?

Simon Harris says offer of grand coalition with Fianna Fail still stands

The blockage to an FF-FG deal is very much at the other end
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/martin-now-on-the-brink-as-howlin-is-first-leader-to-fall-38952700.html

Whatever the soundbites they throw out to the media to save face, the parliamentary party appear to be clamoring for opposition...


A hard no according to one FG source...



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/diminished-fine-gael-preparing-for-a-period-in-opposition-1.4169178?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fireland%2Firish-news%2Fdiminished-fine-gael-preparing-for-a-period-in-opposition-1.4169178



A view has taken hold among members, TDs and defeated candidates that Fine Gael should rebuild and take the opportunity, should it arise, to attack Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin from the opposition benches.
John Paul Phelan, the Minister of State for Electoral Reform, was blunt. Speaking after his re-election as a TD for Carlow-Kilkenny, where Fine Gael TD Pat Deering also lost out, Phelan said a grand coalition is now not an option.

“There will be no grand coalition,” he said. “People wanted change and that is what they voted for. I believe Fine Gael should go into opposition.”
Another party figure said a “hard no” was developing to the prospect of a grand coalition. Party sources also suggested Fine Gael is prepared to position itself as the pro-business party in the Dáil, in contrast to the left-wing policies of Sinn Féin and the centre left positions taken by Fianna Fáil

JohnnyFlash

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Where are you getting that FG are taking this line?

Simon Harris says offer of grand coalition with Fianna Fail still stands

The blockage to an FF-FG deal is very much at the other end
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/martin-now-on-the-brink-as-howlin-is-first-leader-to-fall-38952700.html

The Shinners are getting angsty about their bullshït promises being called out and held to account. Terrified of government. Not the actions of true republican parties like FG and FF. Hurlers on the ditch.

Water John

FG's first line is to force FF into the hands of SF. They then lead the opposition and being in Govn't will squeeze FF & SF.

JohnnyFlash

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The Shinners are getting angsty about their bullshït promises being called out and held to account. Terrified of government. Not the actions of true republican parties like FG and FF. Hurlers on the ditch.

FG a republican party, have you been on the opium balls again?

Yurt2

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The Shinners are getting angsty about their bullshït promises being called out and held to account. Terrified of government. Not the actions of true republican parties like FG and FF. Hurlers on the ditch.

See above, a hard no to FF/ FG from the FG parliamentary party. You even conceded that opposition is where FG should be last night after taking posters down correct?

"It's now time for FG to enter opposition. We are a broad church, and the feeling is that FG's time in Government is over. Consider it the gap year while we go off and try and discover ourselves again"

From your own mouth. Spin away.

Stevieluvsye

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The Shinners are getting angsty about their bullshït promises being called out and held to account. Terrified of government. Not the actions of true republican parties like FG and FF. Hurlers on the ditch.

They are raging they did so well. They know if they fcuk up any government they could/will be in, that's them done for the next 20 years!

dxhound2005

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Looks like FG can't even land the lead opposition party title, FF going to steal their thunder.
Keep the posters handy lads and lasses. GE mark 2 unless they cop on and grow up.




https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/martin-now-on-the-brink-as-howlin-is-first-leader-to-fall-38952700.html

As I was saying last night this is the sort of sneering attitude we get from SF supporters.

McMurphy

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

They are raging they did so well. They know if they fcuk up any government they could/will be in, that's them done for the next 20 years!

Yeah, they looked real raging in the photos I seen at the count centre's.

The delusion is strong in this one.

Stevieluvsye

McMurphy wrote: »

Yeah, they looked real raging in the photos I seen at the count centre's.

The delusion is strong in this one.

They CANNOT deliver their manifesto. Pie in the sky. Full of sh!te

Plumbthedepths

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The Shinners are getting angsty about their bullshït promises being called out and held to account. Terrified of government. Not the actions of true republican parties like FG and FF. Hurlers on the ditch.

You find that calculator yet? The numbers ain't there for the Shinners to form government. Pretty much every commentator agrees SF don't have the required seats even with an alphabet soup combo. So what do you know that no one else knows?

Yurt2

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

They are raging they did so well. They know if they fcuk up any government they could/will be in, that's them done for the next 20 years!

Johnny's cumman decided by consensus FG wanted a breather from government over a few glum pints last night.

Then he's back online the next day claiming FG want it.

I think we can all recognise a line of sh*te when we see it. FG want to slip off into opposition without it being noticed.

Loafing Oaf

Yurt! wrote: »

Whatever the soundbites they throw out to the media to save face, the parliamentary party appear to be clamoring for opposition...


A hard no according to one FG source...



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/diminished-fine-gael-preparing-for-a-period-in-opposition-1.4169178?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fireland%2Firish-news%2Fdiminished-fine-gael-preparing-for-a-period-in-opposition-1.4169178



A view has taken hold among members, TDs and defeated candidates that Fine Gael should rebuild and take the opportunity, should it arise, to attack Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin from the opposition benches.
John Paul Phelan, the Minister of State for Electoral Reform, was blunt. Speaking after his re-election as a TD for Carlow-Kilkenny, where Fine Gael TD Pat Deering also lost out, Phelan said a grand coalition is now not an option.

“There will be no grand coalition,” he said. “People wanted change and that is what they voted for. I believe Fine Gael should go into opposition.”
Another party figure said a “hard no” was developing to the prospect of a grand coalition. Party sources also suggested Fine Gael is prepared to position itself as the pro-business party in the Dáil, in contrast to the left-wing policies of Sinn Féin and the centre left positions taken by Fianna Fáil

An anonymous source and a minister of state versus the health minister and the tanaiste?
https://www.newstalk.com/news/simon-coveney-fine-gael-open-talking-fianna-fail-964612

I have no doubt they would like to go into opposition, or more specifically would love SF and FF to form a government, but if FF finally rules that out, as it seems set to, and approaches FG with a serious offer, I'm confident you'll hear a very different tune from FG ranks...

McMurphy

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

They CANNOT deliver their manifesto. Pie in the sky. Full of sh!te

*Insert Regina Doherty quote here*

There's people raging alright, the shinners are most definitely not though, they have both FF/FG over a barrel.

See above, it's either one of the two enter coalition with SF, or FF/FG go in together with SF as the main opposition party.

Or its back to the polls.

That my friend is the reality, stop the nonsense about raging and pie in the sky stuff - it just undermines your attempt at having a coherent argument.

maccored

dxhound2005 wrote: »

As I was saying last night this is the sort of sneering attitude we get from SF supporters.

aye - as if there isnt a forum full of sneering at SF :rolleyes:

Yurt2

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

An anonymous source and a minister of state versus the health minister and the tanaiste?
https://www.newstalk.com/news/simon-coveney-fine-gael-open-talking-fianna-fail-964612

I have no doubt they would like to go into opposition, or more specifically would love SF and FF to form a government, but if FF finally rules that out, as it seems set to, and approaches FG with a serious offer, I'm confident you'll hear a very different tune from FG ranks...

I think it will be too difficult a pill for too many in FG to swallow being junior partner to FF. Could well tear the party apart.

Stevieluvsye

McMurphy wrote: »

*Insert Regina Doherty quote here*

There's people raging alright, the shinners are most definitely not though, they have both FF/FG over a barrel.

See above, it's either one of the two enter coalition with SF, or FF/FG go in together with SF as the main opposition party.

Or its back to the polls.

That my friend is the reality, stop the nonsense about raging and pie in the sky stuff - it just undermines your attempt at having a coherent argument.

Neither FF/FG will go in to government with SF. That's pretty much a fact. My guess will be FF/FG/Greens. If it's not that, then back to the polls

McMurphy

Yurt! wrote: »

I think it will be too difficult a pill for too many in FG to swallow being junior partner to FF. Could well tear the party apart.

This a coalition involving the two of them will in all likelihood have them either tear each other asunder, or they'll merge into one - there's the square root of shag all difference between them anyways.

storker

Yurt! wrote: »

I think it will be too difficult a pill for too many in FG to swallow being junior partner to FF. Could well tear the party apart.

Something to look forward to...

JohnnyFlash

The Shinners don’t want to go into government and try and deliver what they promised the electorate. Shower of blowhards. All they want to do is give out and moan and pretend they have solutions. Spoofers.

McMurphy

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Neither FF/FG will go in to government with SF. That's pretty much a fact. My guess will be FF/FG/Greens. If it's not that, then back to the polls

You just repeated what I've been saying since before the election now:D

So SF might be going in as the opposition party while FFG tear themselves apart, or actually work together and implement change and reform in housing and health as they've been promising - forced to, by SF.

Or its back to the polls where the shinners could further erode their vote share.

SF would be raging at that scenario why exactly?

It's a win win for them no matter what.

Loafing Oaf

Yurt! wrote: »

I think it will be too difficult a pill for too many in FG to swallow being junior partner to FF. Could well tear the party apart.

A more difficult pill than precipitating another general election for which FG would receive the lion's share of the blame?

Anyway FF propped up an FG government fairly steadily for four years. I think very many in FG would see it as only fair to return the favour...

dxhound2005

maccored wrote: »

aye - as if there isnt a forum full of sneering at SF :rolleyes:

One of their supporters complained about it last night. I simply pointed out that it is not all one-sided. They did not accept that there are any anti FF or FG posts which carry insulting and derogatory tones.

Plumbthedepths

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The Shinners don’t want to go into government and try and deliver what they promised the electorate. Shower of blowhards. All they want to do is give out and moan and pretend they have solutions. Spoofers.

Again have they the numbers if FF and FG/Lab go off the pitch?
Strange how you refuse to answer.