GE Exit Poll 10 pm

Loafing Oaf

Suckit wrote: »

FG keep spouting the exact same line, from Leo, Helen McEntee, Coveney and the lot on here. But when questioned about it, they all alter their stance. Funny to watch, but shows incompetence (which is nothing new for them).
That is, the people voted them out, and clearly didn't want them in. The onus is on SF to form a government etc. (If they want to keep that line, they'll have to change it to FF for obvious reasons).
"Clearly"? There was no clear majority here. FG only lost the majority of votes, even less if you count that they were only up in the first place because many were just voting against FF. FG showing no respect for the almost half a million people that voted for them by pretty much refusing to enter government with anyone, and to only enter as opposition.

Before the election, Varadkar said that he was open to confidence and supply agreement - even if the shoe was on the other foot.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/varadkar-open-to-confidence-and-supply-agreement-with-ff-even-if-the-shoe-was-on-the-other-foot-950529.html
Yet seems that was just another line for the voters.

I wouldn't like to see them in, even if it means it would be a forced change, but it is good to let their voters see their flip flopping.

As I and others have said, a lot of posturing going on by FG at the moment. If a scenario arises where FF have definitively ruled out any deal with SF and approach FG with a serious offer that becomes the only game in town, are your seriously telling me FG would turn that down and trigger another election?

rob316

I can only see another election to be honest and its a huge risk for all 3 parties.

Plumbthedepths

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

As I and others have said, a lot of posturing going on by FG at the moment. If a scenario arises where FF have definitively ruled out any deal with SF and approach FG with a serious offer that becomes the only game in town, are your seriously telling me FG would turn that down and trigger another election?

Seem to be ruling it out.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/miche%C3%A1l-martin-will-not-reverse-stance-on-ruling-out-sinn-f%C3%A9in-1.4171836?mode=amp

Suckit

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

As I and others have said, a lot of posturing going on by FG at the moment. If a scenario arises where FF have definitively ruled out any deal with SF and approach FG with a serious offer that becomes the only game in town, are your seriously telling me FG would turn that down and trigger another election?

I'm not telling you anything other than FG keep repeating the same line.

"The people voted against us, The people clearly voted SF in"
Of the actual turnout (62.9%), only 3.66% more voted for SF over FG. That's a lot less than 100,000 voters.

FG need to get over it, and stop crying into their cornflakes.
Their voters are watching them, as is everybody else. Anyone that may have been deciding to vote for them in the future, would surely be convinced not to with this performance.
They'll want to keep those voters when Leo gets the boot for delivering their 2nd worst performance in an election ever.
If they alienate those too, it may be a long haul to get back to the dizzying heights of leading a c&s.

McMurphy

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Seem to be ruling it out.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/miche%C3%A1l-martin-will-not-reverse-stance-on-ruling-out-sinn-f%C3%A9in-1.4171836?mode=amp

Back to the polls so?

I don't think Leo/Michaél will exactly relish that prospect, but looks like the most likely outcome.

In saying that FF due to meet up this afternoon, will Some of their lot have the knives out for Michaél?

rafatoni

McMurphy wrote: »

Back to the polls so?

I don't think Leo/Michaél will exactly relish that prospect, but looks like the most likely outcome.

In saying that FF due to meet up this afternoon, will Some of their lot have the knives out for Michaél?

Last chance saloon for him now is a FF/FG grand coalition.

Yurt2

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

As I and others have said, a lot of posturing going on by FG at the moment. If a scenario arises where FF have definitively ruled out any deal with SF and approach FG with a serious offer that becomes the only game in town, are your seriously telling me FG would turn that down and trigger another election?

My instinct is they don't know themselves, there's enough in the party that would baulk at it (and we know this from the media) that it will surely cause an unholy and very public row within the party.

In their hubris, I don't think they ever built into their post-election planning that the only option that they possibly were leaving themselves was to anoint Martin Taoiseach and play Dougal to Fianna Fáil's Ted.

It is so unpalatable to many of them that the ditch looks like a pretty good spot and they're enthusiastically planning what to do with all their extra free time.

Remember folks, Fine Gael are the party of responsibility and competence. It's not exactly true, but they're hoping if they repeat it enough times, they'll get people to believe it.

rob316

rafatoni wrote: »

Last chance saloon for him now is a FF/FG grand coalition.

Word from most of FG is they are off to opposition benches and will rebuild as actual rivals of FF.

Cork Boy 53

McMurphy wrote: »

Back to the polls so?

I don't think Leo/Michaél will exactly relish that prospect, but looks like the most likely outcome.

In saying that FF due to meet up this afternoon, will Some of their lot have the knives out for Michaél?

No doubt a number of them will but will there be enough for a heave against him? Interesting times ahead.

LuckyLloyd

rolling boh wrote: »

Think either of Ff or Fg would be mad to go in with Sf policies to far apart would probably leave them with about 20 seats next time .Even if one of them got involved with a dolly mixture set up the other would be delighted as they would have a free run in opposition.

Well FFG have to do one or the other? Otherwise they’re asking the electorate to sort it out.

LuckyLloyd

rob316 wrote: »

Word from most of FG is they are off to opposition benches and will rebuild as actual rivals of FF.

That may not be an option though. Many of them might have to first beat off a second SF candidate in their constituency before they can take their desired seat in opposition...

Loafing Oaf

Suckit wrote: »

I'm not telling you anything other than FG keep repeating the same line.

"The people voted against us, The people clearly voted SF in"

Yeah, junior ministers and 'anonymous sources'. Party top brass are largely keeping their heads down but conspicuously not ruling out a deal with FF.

Plumbthedepths

McMurphy wrote: »

Back to the polls so?

I don't think Leo/Michaél will exactly relish that prospect, but looks like the most likely outcome.

In saying that FF due to meet up this afternoon, will Some of their lot have the knives out for Michaél?

Lise Hand of the Journal was asked about a return to the polls on Primetime early during the week, her contention was the idea would send a shiver of fear through FF and FG.

Suckit

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Yeah, junior ministers and 'anonymous sources'. Party top brass are largely keeping their heads down but conspicuously not ruling out a deal with FF.

I'm pretty sure Leo said it too, might have to find a quote. But he went on about the onus being on SF. He seems to be ignoring the fact that many people also voted FF, and that he said he would be open to working with them.

BluePlanet

rob316 wrote: »

Word from most of FG is they are off to opposition benches and will rebuild as actual rivals of FF.

Rivals of what?
FF/FG are basically the same thing.
That's what so bat sht crazy about them.

Party Before Country should be their motto.

Plumbthedepths

rob316 wrote: »

Word from most of FG is they are off to opposition benches and will rebuild as actual rivals of FF.

FF are off to the opposition benches aswell, gonna be crowded.

listermint

The whole thing stinks of

The people are idiots, We've told them this several times. Why won't they vote for us !!!!

Loafing Oaf

Suckit wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Leo said it too, might have to find a quote. But he went on about the onus being on SF. He seems to be ignoring the fact that many people also voted FF, and that he said he would be open to working with them.

If he didn't specifically say "FG will not be going into government with FF" then it's all just empty words. My own belief is that all the FG talk about "rebuilding in opposition" is a smokescreen designed to give the impression among joe public that a FF/SF was a realistic prospect, even if FG leadership themselves never thought it would actually happen.

lawred2

listermint wrote: »

The whole thing stinks of

Something we all probably engaged in a bit with British voters who voted for Brexit.

Doesn't really achieve much other than to harden positions.

The Rape of Lucretia

McMurphy wrote: »

Did he?

Micheál Martin will not reverse stance on ruling out Sinn Féin

Rock and hard place for MM and Leo, it was monumentally stupid for both of them to categorically rule out talking to anyone before the election imo, they have engineered their own position in the corner.

Instead, have they not engineering a perfect position for themselves, and are the ones having played it smartly ? Where does they idea come from that either has a desire to coalesce with SF ? As we are, An FF/FG coalition is far more natural, politically aligned, and involves no strife over dealing with terrorists and their supporters. Well played Martin and Rads.

BluePlanet

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Instead, have they not engineering a perfect position for themselves, and are the ones having played it smartly ? Where does they idea come from that either has a desire to coalesce with SF ? As we are, An FF/FG coalition is far more natural, politically aligned, and involves no strife over dealing with terrorists and their supporters. Well played Martin and Rads.

Yeah so perfectly they go around wearing sourpuses on their faces.

Loafing Oaf

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Instead, have they not engineering a perfect position for themselves, and are the ones having played it smartly ? Where does they idea come from that either has a desire to coalesce with SF ? As we are, An FF/FG coalition is far more natural, politically aligned, and involves no strife over dealing with terrorists and their supporters. Well played Martin and Rads.

I don't think it's at all a given that FF as a party will go along with that.
https://www.herald.ie/news/martin-faces-anger-from-tds-who-dont-want-coalition-with-fine-gael-or-sinn-fein-38952346.html
However, senior frontbench Fianna Fail TDs, including deputy leader Dara Calleary, Barry Cowen, Darragh O'Brien and Willie O'Dea among others, are opposed to entering into coalition with either Sinn Fein or Fine Gael.

IMO there may well be enough FF TDs bloody-minded enough to prefer another election to a deal with either FG or SF to mean that is what we will get...

Suckit

FG refusing to coalesce with anyone, spouting 'the people voted for them' even though the majority didn't.
Just FG adamant to waste another 5 years doing nothing, just starting early with the blame.

Suckit

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I don't think it's at all a given that FF as a party will go along with that.
https://www.herald.ie/news/martin-faces-anger-from-tds-who-dont-want-coalition-with-fine-gael-or-sinn-fein-38952346.html
However, senior frontbench Fianna Fail TDs, including deputy leader Dara Calleary, Barry Cowen, Darragh O'Brien and Willie O'Dea among others, are opposed to entering into coalition with either Sinn Fein or Fine Gael.

IMO there may well be enough FF TDs bloody-minded enough to prefer another election to a deal with either FG or SF to mean that is what we will get...

I heard at least two of those on the radio before the election refusing to rule anything out when specifically asked about SF. Think it was the day or two days before the GE.

BluePlanet

Suckit wrote: »

Democracy at work.

FG refusing to coalesce with anyone, spouting 'the people voted for them' even though the majority didn't.
Just FG adamant to waste another 5 years doing nothing, just starting early with the blame.

Yeah, and it really shows how much they actually care about the real life issues people face.
Problems they and FF created and now let others try and repair as FG go off and snipe from the sidelines. Perhaps with a goal of compounding the problems in people's lives?

meeeeh

BluePlanet wrote: »

Yeah, and it really shows how much they actually care about the real life issues people face.
Problems they and FF created and now let others try and repair as FG go off and snipe from the sidelines. Perhaps with a goal of compounding the problems in people's lives?

I presume you didn't vote for FF or FG because you want someone else to be in the government but now you are complaining that they don't want to go into government. What exactly do you want them to do?

Suckit

meeeeh wrote: »

I presume you didn't vote for FF or FG because you want someone else to be in the government but now you are complaining that they don't want to go into government. What exactly do you want them to do?

If that's why FG are refusing to, it's the first time they've ever listened to the public about anything.

BluePlanet

meeeeh wrote: »

I presume you didn't vote for FF or FG because you want someone else to be in the government but now you are complaining that they don't want to go into government. What exactly do you want them to do?

Dissolve and form a new and proper "Irish Tory" party that they really want.

Seriously though, look at the numbers.
There are 3 big parties and either 2 of them get together to form a government, (or even all 3) in some grand compromise.
They should think outside the box instead of retreating into their party tribalism.

Yurt2

meeeeh wrote: »

I presume you didn't vote for FF or FG because you want someone else to be in the government but now you are complaining that they don't want to go into government. What exactly do you want them to do?

Honestly, I'd like media and public pressure to be heaped on both of them until they both meltdown. We're already at the point where large factions of both parties are agitating to go into opposition instead of working out a formula to give their voters what they wanted (FG in particular moved very quickly into this space). The cracks are already beginning to show today.

It's a remarkable sight to see the two dominant political movements in Ireland since independence in a race to stay away from the steering wheel. FG deserve particular ire as it was one of their favourite finger wagging techniques for 9 years, trying to paint everyone who wasn't them as those who 'hurled from the ditch.'

People should pay very close attention to their behaviour over the next few weeks and make a mental note of it.

Loafing Oaf

Yurt! wrote: »

Honestly, I'd like media and public pressure to be heaped on both of them until they both meltdown. We're already at the point where large factions of both parties are agitating to go into opposition instead of working out a formula to give their voters what they wanted (FG in particular moved very quickly into this space). The cracks are already beginning to show today.

It's a remarkable sight to see the two dominant political movements in Ireland since independence in a race to stay away from the steering wheel. FG deserve particular ire as it was one of their favourite finger wagging techniques for 9 years, trying to paint everyone who wasn't them as those who 'hurled from the ditch.'

People should pay very close attention to their behaviour over the next few weeks and make a mental note of it.

What is the point in posting this screed over and over again in slightly different words? The counter-argument has put to you that all FG's talk about 'rebuilding in opposition' is just spin and that when push comes to shove they will almost certainly cut a deal with FF to avoid another election but you're not engaging with that.