GE Exit Poll 10 pm

L1011

efanton wrote: »

I fail to see the relevance of that statement. what would be the relevance of that nationally, and more importantly what relevance does this have to the to my post?

The trend here in case you hadn't noticed is a lot of people like myself have swung to the left because FF and FG have ignored the majority of the population. They might keep their core supporters but they are literally driving away the floating voters who are crucial to any electoral win.
Instead of using ration debate and sensible arguments all people like you are doing is reinforcing that the decision to seek an alternative was the right thing to do.

What is quite odd is instead of trying to increase the support for the party which you support, you are doing the complete opposite.

I just find it rather odd how hugely over-represented, proportionally, people from one single 3 seater are on here.

You have jumped to a hell of a lot of conclusions with the rest of your post. None of them accurate

efanton

Water John wrote: »

Living in that one constituency, I cannot answer the question, if Liadh Ni Riada had run would she have got elected? Or would she get elected if there was another election?

I dont know is the honest answer.
If she had stood I would have voted for her.

But this is a weird constituency. With the recent boundary changes, inevitably this means FF are guaranteed a seat, FF are guaranteed a seat and only the third seat could possibly be contestable but not as contestable as previously.
Ciaran McCarthy was well over 3000 votes shy of winning it so it couldn't be reasonably be expected that the 3rd seat seat would go to another party other than FF or FG, but stranger things have happened.

But one particular seat is irrelevant in a national election and my post was not talking about one single seat.

efanton

L1011 wrote: »

I just find it rather odd how hugely over-represented, proportionally, people from one single 3 seater are on here.

You have jumped to a hell of a lot of conclusions with the rest of your post. None of them accurate

Again I fail to see the relevance of your first statement.
I have no idea of your true identity or where you are from and the same goes for all other posters here. How are you getting that information I assumed this forum was supposed to be anonymous unless someone willingly decided to divulge personal information.


I havent jumped to a hell of a lot of conclusions with the rest of my post. Its an opinion, one you might not agree with, but there it is. The whole point of me posting is to actually get other peoples considered and supported opinions.
Surely as a moderator you would agree that's the point of this forum, or have I missed the point completely?

I fail to see how this is an unfair assessment of the current situation

FF doesn't want to form a coalition government with FG, they would much prefer a C&S agreement.
FG doesn't want a coalition government because this would place SF as the leading party on the opposition benches and elevate their position without FG also in opposition.
Neither FG or FF want to form a government with SF even though both combinations would work with the support of a 3rd party such as the Greens.

The simple truth is both FF and FG have tried to walk away from their responsibilities and are still trying to.

I then said the above, and I have yet to see anything in the media as to FF or FG either working together to form a government or working individually to form a government. I might be wrong and if so thats fair enough, point it out.
Otherwise to state that both appear to have walked away form their responsibilities seems to me to be a fair comment. Two of the three leading parties have to work together to form a government, there is no other possible way for a government to be formed. So why arent we hearing about that?

How could two parties that share the view that SF would be terrible for the country, and at the same time claim they have the country's interest at heart,
but yet actively encourage SF to form a government, If they had the country's interest at heart they would have stepped in right away to ensure no such government was even a technical possibility from the very first day after the results came in.

Again a reasonable comment. If SF is totally bad and the worst thing possible for the country, why give them the opportunity of forming a government. Surely stopping any possibility of that happening would have been a priority. If FF and FG were of a view that it was totally impossible for SF to form a government why have they not got stuck in to forming a government themselves, together or individually?
No conclusion was drawn, it was a question.

L1011

efanton wrote: »

Surely as a moderator you would agree that's the point of this forum, or have I missed the point completely?

I'm not a moderator of this forum

I don't see how any part of the rest of your post has any relevance to what was being discussed.

You jumped to incredibly inaccurate conclusions based on my post, and indeed you've done it again by assuming I'm a mod here.

Bannasidhe

Water John wrote: »

If I was composing a cross party list of oddballs who have got elected Mick Barry would be on it. There is no logic there, at all.

O'Cuiv seems to a small minority of FF TDs who think FF should go in with SF. He expresssed his view at the parliamentary party meeting and it didn't prevail.

But the 'oddball' Mick Barry actually represented his constituency and did the job he was paid to do (on the avg industrial wage) unlike Dara Murphy the FG TD who went missing off to Brussels double jobbing with the knowledge of his party and only showed in the Dail to fob in to claim his unvouched for expenses.

Give me an 'oddball' who works for his constituency over a money grabbing, grasping, spiv any day.

efanton

L1011 wrote: »

I'm not a moderator of this forum

I don't see how any part of the rest of your post has any relevance to what was being discussed.

You jumped to incredibly inaccurate conclusions based on my post, and indeed you've done it again by assuming I'm a mod here.

Now you have me totally confused.

I assumed you were a moderator simply because it has MODERATOR in big letters under your name. Why the title if it was not true? Was it a totally unreasonable conclusion?

I did not respond to one of your posts initially I was responding to .

Originally Posted by Brendan Bendar View Post
Good call, jingle, the Shinners can’t seem to comprehend that one less seat than Ff and two more than Fg should put them into the mayors office, as it were.

They haven’t broken the State yet, not by a long chalvk.

I wouldn’t open the gates to the big sheds just yet.

And I agreed with him. I was neither supporting or attacking any particular party or any one posting on this forum.

I then went on to pass comment of what might be potential outcomes and ask why FF and FG had not yet made any obvious moves to from a government.

My comments were totally relevant in response to the post that was made.


You then jumped in divulging personal information publicly about myself with a statistic about one single constituency that had absolutely no relevance to the point or questions I was making regarding the entire country.

Believe it or not, everyone who has not voted for FF or FG are not automatically SF supporters, but even if they were what relevance is that if they are asking direct questions, or for other peoples opinions.

I have absolutely no interest in pushing one party's policies or acting as an unpaid unrecognised activist for ANY party.

I will admit I like what SF have proposed with regards a housing policy. Of all the parties policies its the only one that makes sense to me given the size of the problem. I also see how in order to achieve that taxation of some kind would have to brought in. That doesn't mean I love EVERY policy that SF has.

Like many in this country I consider myself at the moment to be one of those voters that is prepared to be persuaded and vote differently from one election to the next depending on what policies appeal to me. I have voted Labour before, I have even voted FF in the past. I voted SD this time and yes if SF had had a candidate I would have voted for them in this election because I feel that housing and insurance are the two biggest issues. I am here to be informed by other peoples view point and consider every argument. I will not be persuaded by all of them but some of them will have a impact or bearing on my viewpoint. Being open minded is not a crime.

So instead of jumping to assumption maybe you need to read what I have written and more importantly to the posts I was responding to and questions I asked.
I have no interest whatsoever in this tit for tat nonsense that goes on between those that obviously support one particular party only, and who would never consider voting for another.


I notice you made absolutely no effort to answer any of my questions. Maybe you would like to take this opportunity to do so.

L1011

efanton wrote: »

Now you have me totally confused.

I assumed you were a moderator simply because it has MODERATOR in big capital letters under your name. Why the title if it was not true? Was it a totally unreasonable conclusion?

Under a moderators avatar it has "Mod:" at the forums they moderate. You have been here for eight years, it is reasonable to assume you understand some basics of the forum software which are unchanged for twenty two years.


If you state that there were no SF candidates in your constituency when there is only one constituency that is valid for, you provided the personal information. Nobody else.

efanton

L1011 wrote: »

Under a moderators avatar it has "Mod:" at the forums they moderate. You have been here for eight years, it is reasonable to assume you understand some basics of the forum software which are unchanged for twenty two years.


If you state that there were no SF candidates in your constituency when there is only one constituency that is valid for, you provided the personal information. Nobody else.

No I have been a member for eight years. Eight years ago after having some health issues I was looking for some locations that had easy access locally for trout fishing.

I then rarely if at all used the forum until this election.
I realised that this election was going to be somewhat different. I did not realise how different as it turned out, but posted a thread asking people what they though about voting SF and whether there was a swing in their direction and whether people that had never voted for them before were considering that.

I have only recently posted on this political forum in the hopes of being more informed and getting some answers to questions that I have not seen answered elsewhere.
Had you bothered to look up my post history that would have been plainly evident.
It seem you are well able to weed out information when it suits you.

But asserting that others are jumping to assumptions when in fact you yourself plainly are, strikes me as ironic.

I was not aware my constituency was the only constituency SF did not field a candidate.

But enough deflecting, why am I having to defend myself when you neither answered one of my questions or commented relevantly to them.

L1011

efanton wrote: »

No I have been a member for eight years. Eight years ago after having some health issues I was looking for some locations that had easy access locally for trout fishing.

I then rarely if at all used the forum until this election.
I realised that this election was going to be somewhat different. I did not realise how different as it turned out, but posted a thread asking people what they though about voting SF and whether there was a swing in their direction and whether people that had never voted for them before were considering that.

I have only recently posted on this political forum in the hopes of being more informed and getting some answers to questions that I have not seen answered elsewhere.
Had you bothered to look up my post history that would have been plainly evident.
It seem you are well able to weed out information when it suits you.

But asserting that others are jumping to assumptions when in fact you yourself plainly are, strikes me as ironic.

I was not aware my constituency was the only constituency SF did not field a candidate.

But enough deflecting, why am I having to defend myself when you neither answered one of my questions or commented relevantly to them.

It is basically impossible to figure out what your questions are; from the extensive rambling posts they are apparently within.

I also doubt they have any relevance to me that would require me to answer; considering how limited our interactions have actually been.

charlie14

Just saw a tweet from Micheál Lehane saying Micheál Martin phoned Mary Lou after the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting and left a message saying they could meet or talk, but not about a coalition.

Jinglejangle69

charlie14 wrote: »

Just saw a tweet from Micheál Lehane saying Micheál Martin phoned Mary Lou after the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting and left a message saying they could meet or talk, but not about a coalition.

Thanks for that groundbreaking news.

charlie14

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Thanks for that groundbreaking news.

It`s okay if you do not like me. Not everyone has perfect taste:)

Jinglejangle69

charlie14 wrote: »

It`s okay if you do not like me. Not everyone has perfect taste:)

I don't even know you let alone not like you!!

efanton

L1011 wrote: »

It is basically impossible to figure out what your questions are; from the extensive rambling posts they are apparently within.

I also doubt they have any relevance to me that would require me to answer; considering how limited our interactions have actually been.

in future please, if its not relevant to you, dont respond.

You have made a fool of yourself, trying to be clever and badly at that.

Brendan Bendar

Bannasidhe wrote: »

But the 'oddball' Mick Barry actually represented his constituency and did the job he was paid to do (on the avg industrial wage) unlike Dara Murphy the FG TD who went missing off to Brussels double jobbing with the knowledge of his party and only showed in the Dail to fob in to claim his unvouched for expenses.

Give me an 'oddball' who works for his constituency over a money grabbing, grasping, spiv any day.

Was Barry just paid to attend picket lines?

Given how he just scraped in doesn’t appear he represented all his constituents equally and well.

is_that_so

Billcarson wrote: »

Which they probably wont, I have little or no faith in them.

Perhaps not, but the electorate on one score have delivered a message. Assuming they do a deal, from their perspective, it's a chance to pick off and nullify one major policy drive by SF. and that can only be good for support.

is_that_so

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Was Barry just paid to attend picket lines?

Given how he just scraped in doesn’t appear he represented all his constituents equally and well.

The scraping in doesn't matter, it's the "in" he has in his favour.

Brendan Bendar

is_that_so wrote: »

The scraping in doesn't matter, it's the "in" he has in his favour.

All it proves is there enough fools who are taken in by rhetoric and ‘policies’ which are ‘everything for everyone irrespective whether they are entitled or not’.

As the person who messaged RTÉ said “total anarchist.

is_that_so

McMurphy wrote: »

If they fix what's annoying people just to keep out the shinners well then that's a very serious flaw in our political system that needs to be taken out at the root.

Nah, it's what parties have always done here, stolen other people's clothes. The PDs were so utterly indistinguishable from FF by the end, it was no surprise at all they disappeared. SF need to convince people they are worth voting for as a potential party of government and not as undoubtedly has happened here, by just being the ABFFG.

Bannasidhe

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Was Barry just paid to attend picket lines?

Given how he just scraped in doesn’t appear he represented all his constituents equally and well.

Shock horror - TD appears on picket lines in support of his constituents. What ever next!

Much better to be in a locked car with a garda escort and have protestors arrested in dawn raids before being found not guilty after a complete waste of garda resources, court time, and taxpayers money.

That's how a proper politician represents the electorate is it?

Are you suggesting he should ignore issues that concern his constituents so much they go on strike/protest or that people are on picket lines just for the jollies?


Given how many FF and FG TDs scraped in without reaching the quota it's a bit rich trying to use that isn't it. Sad too. Scraping the bottom of the barrel indeed.

L1011

efanton wrote: »

in future please, if its not relevant to you, dont respond.

You have made a fool of yourself, trying to be clever and badly at that.

I'm really not sure what thread you think you're reading/posting in.

Water John

Bannasidhe wrote: »

But the 'oddball' Mick Barry actually represented his constituency and did the job he was paid to do (on the avg industrial wage) unlike Dara Murphy the FG TD who went missing off to Brussels double jobbing with the knowledge of his party and only showed in the Dail to fob in to claim his unvouched for expenses.

Give me an 'oddball' who works for his constituency over a money grabbing, grasping, spiv any day.

You're setting the bar very low. Dara was an embarrassment for FG for a long time and would also qualify for oddball list.

Bannasidhe

Water John wrote: »

You're setting the bar very low. Dara was an embarrassment for FG for a long time and would also qualify for oddball list.

Not an oddball - a spiv chancer on the make.
And FG weren't so embarrassed that they took action were they?
So yeah, embarrassed at finally being called out for allowing an elected TD to blatantly get away with not even pretending to make an effort to do his job while still claiming the overly generous expenses that were designed to help him do the job he wasn't even pretending to do.

Mick Barry, meanwhile, gets criticised for standing shoulder to shoulder with his constituents when they are aggrieved enough to take to the picket line. :rolleyes:

But sure what do frontline staff in the HSE, teachers who are paid less than their colleagues doing the exact same job, childcare workers on minimum wage, tenants in blocks of flats suddenly and simultaneously being given eviction notices have to complain about?

Our economy is doing so well here in Cork North Central that our last govt TD had 2 well paid jobs bai.

Water John

Not criticising Mick Barry for standing in any picket line. What annoys me is here offers no positive rational solutions. A hurler on the ditch.
BTW you're correct Dara was long known as a liability. Colm Burke might be a dour political plodder but CNC will be represented honestly by him.

CatFromHue

Bannasidhe wrote: »

But the 'oddball' Mick Barry actually represented his constituency and did the job he was paid to do (on the avg industrial wage) unlike Dara Murphy the FG TD who went missing off to Brussels double jobbing with the knowledge of his party and only showed in the Dail to fob in to claim his unvouched for expenses.

Give me an 'oddball' who works for his constituency over a money grabbing, grasping, spiv any day.

If he draws down the full wage from the exchequer he doesn't work for the avg wage. He works for the full TD wage and then just chooses to spend half of it to further his own cause by giving it to his party.

Barry's solutions are on his party's website, take everything into govt control.

Bannasidhe

Water John wrote: »

Not criticising Mick Barry for standing in any picket line. What annoys me is here offers no positive rational solutions. A hurler on the ditch.
BTW you're correct Dara was long known as a liability. Colm Burke might be a dour political plodder but CNC will be represented honestly by him.

Who does offer rational solutions?
Serious question.

FG's policies on health, housing, and education (funding wise) are not working. The proof is on the trolleys, sleeping in doorways, and in envelopes of cash parents have to hand over to schools to help keep them going.

FF aren't offering much in the way of difference and, let's be honest, helped create a lot of the problems in the first place (not specifically talking about the crash - they took policy decisions that started us down this road).

The viability, or lack of, what SF have to offer will apparently have to wait a while longer before being put to the test.

But there is another aspect of democracy that is often undervalued in Ireland - perhaps because it is an aspect that we haven't really experienced. The truth is this country has lacked serious opposition for decades - could even say we have never had serious opposition to govt, we have had quibbles from across the floor of the Dail about how to implement what were essentially the same blasted policies.

We need mouthy opposition to govt - helps keep the feckers in line. It's how our system of democracy was designed to function.

I'm perfectly happy to have one of my TDs provide that mouthy opposition tbh.
I like having an alternative viewpoint being delivered from the opposition benches. I like having the guy I gave my #1 to standing on the picket line in the lashing rain, wearing a fleece top, giving it welly through a megaphone because I do not feel the bloke in the suit getting his assistant to promise that he will 'look into it' always 'gets it'. I am sure the people on the picket line appreciate having a TD there with them. Letting them see that someone in Dail Eireann is listening even if the govt isn't.
When the electorate feel no-one at all is listening then that's when democracy is in trouble.

We need the TDs who heed, believe, and support the whistleblowers and the disenfranchised and the just had enough more than we need yet another backbencher who votes with the whip and has feck all input into govt policy.

Mick Barry is that TD for CNC.

CatFromHue

Just looking at Solidarity's website

Public services
End church control of schools and hospitals. Separate church and state now. Nationalise church-owned land where public services reside with no compensation.
End the unjust, two-tier health service. For a public, secular national health service free at the point of use. Nationalise all privately owned hospitals and pharmaceutical companies.

It lacks any detail to be anyway credible.

There's nothing there to actually help improve the health services. Nationalising the private hospitals won't improve anything. Natioanlising pharma companies, i don't know where to even start with that.

devnull

CatFromHue wrote: »

There's nothing there to actually help improve the health services. Nationalising the private hospitals won't improve anything. Natioanlising pharma companies, i don't know where to even start with that.

The problem I found with most of the left wing parties who were canvassing in my area is they were obsessed with buzzwords, rhetoric and the ideology that public = good and private = bad but were unable to coherently back up their views with anything factual that backed up their viewpoints. There was lots of vague claims such as the ones that you have outlined without any meat on the bones.

For example, PBP in my area were saying Go-Ahead Ireland services should be run by Dublin Bus as GAI services were of a poor standard, yet figures on punctuality and reliability that have been independently recorded show that Dublin Bus services are of a similar performance and sometimes worse yet he didn't wish to acknowledge this because he was more concerned about ideology. If he really cared about public transport he would call out both operators rather than ignoring things which don't suit his argument and singling out those who do to try and present a false narrative.

As a centrist I've never been one to be swayed by blind faith to an ideology in any way or to allow me to allow it to influence my opinion. I judge things by how they have been managed without any built in prejudiced bias . The left in Ireland, for my view are still too driven by buzzwords and ideology rather than facts and this is why I didn't vote for Sinn Fein. The only left party that got a vote for me was the Social Democrats because they came across as being a little less driven by ideology and a little more grounded as to seeing the importance of the bigger picture and focused on outcomes and fixing problems.

The thing about being in opposition is you can put across simplistic sentences with what you are going to do without actually saying how you are going to do it or what that involves specifically. It's very easy to say the things like CatFromHue posted but not so easy in reality to implement them and everything be hunky dory.

Brendan Bendar

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Shock horror - TD appears on picket lines in support of his constituents. What ever next!

Much better to be in a locked car with a garda escort and have protestors arrested in dawn raids before being found not guilty after a complete waste of garda resources, court time, and taxpayers money.

That's how a proper politician represents the electorate is it?

Are you suggesting he should ignore issues that concern his constituents so much they go on strike/protest or that people are on picket lines just for the jollies?


Given how many FF and FG TDs scraped in without reaching the quota it's a bit rich trying to use that isn't it. Sad too. Scraping the bottom of the barrel indeed.

He might be better served trying either mediate the issues if appropriate instead of hawking himself around on every picket line going for photo ops.

And others might do well to remember that in disputes there are two sides to every story.

If the criteria for being a ‘proper politician’ is to appear on every picket line going, well there aren’t many proper politicians in Dáil Éireann.

I would respectfully suggest that ‘politicians’ realise that there are two parties in every dispute and that they would be much better employed and better value for money if they were less high profile on every picket line and more active behind the scenes trying to resolve the issues.

padd b1975

charlie14 wrote: »

Just saw a tweet from Micheál Lehane saying Micheál Martin phoned Mary Lou after the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting and left a message saying they could meet or talk, but not about a coalition.

Is it too much to expect her to be close to her phone at all times in the current political climate??

Don't get me started on the letter writing!!