GE Exit Poll 10 pm

Yurt2

Hmmmm first they're directed by a defunct paramilitary wing, now they're directed by shadowy forces in Whitehall.

We're firmly in the realms of the conspiracy theory now.

FWIW, there was disquiet about Harris' appointment as Garda chief in Defense Forces circles. He presumably had the highest security clearance and worked cheek by jowl with MI5.

The above doesn't bother terribly much btw.

SafeSurfer

Yurt! wrote: »

Hmmmm first they're directed by a defunct paramilitary wing, now they're directed by shadowy forces in Whitehall.

We're firmly in the realms of the conspiracy theory now.

FWIW, there was disquiet about Harris' appointment as Garda chief in Defense Forces circles. He presumably had the highest security clearance and worked cheek by jowl with MI5.

The above doesn't bother terribly much btw.

If the argument by yourself and Mc Murphy is, “ah sure Drew Harris worked with British intelligence too, great bunch of lads, be grand”.

You are entirely missing the point.

Yurt2

SafeSurfer wrote: »

If the argument by yourself and Mc Murphy is, “ah sure Drew Harris worked with British intelligence too, great bunch of lads, be grand”.

You are entirely missing the point.

If there is evidence of SF being directed by MI5 assets at the moment I'll listen. Otherwise, such posts belong firmly in the conspiracy theory forum.

SafeSurfer

Yurt! wrote: »

If there is evidence of SF being directed by MI5 assets at the moment I'll listen. Otherwise, such posts belong firmly in the conspiracy theory forum.

Wait there while I get the current secret British intelligence documents.

When do agents stop being compromised?

Yurt2

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Wait there while I get the current secret British intelligence documents.

When do agents stop being compromised?

Well there we have it. We don't have compelling evidence than SF are directed by members of a moribund army council, much less evidence of those same said members are comprised by MI5.

We may as well be saying Ruth Coppinger is a KGB agent.

SafeSurfer

Yurt! wrote: »

Well there we have it. We don't have compelling evidence than SF are directed by members of a moribund army council, much less evidence of those same said members are comprised by MI5.

We may as well be saying Ruth Coppinger is a KGB agent.

No members of people before profit have been revealed to have been agents of Russian intelligence whereas many members of Sinn Fein, in senior positions of influence, have been revealed to have been British intelligence agents for many years.

FrancieBrady

What are the British infiltrators going to do anyhow?

Get Shinners to suggest having state commemorations for their armed wings and sanitise what they did here or something??

Sure that would never happen would it? :eek:

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What are the British infiltrators going to do anyhow?

Get Shinners to suggest having state commemorations for their armed wings and sanitise what they did here or something??

Sure that would never happen would it? :eek:

Your making progress by accepting the heavy infiltration of the IRA and Sinn Fein by British intelligence.

Yurt2

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Your making progress by accepting the heavy infiltration of the IRA and Sinn Fein by British intelligence.

It's public knowledge that there was MI5 infiltration of SF and the republican movement generally during the troubles. Whether the superlative 'heavy' applies you and I can only speculate on.

And we have scant evidence this is the case today. And by scant, I mean there is none.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Your making progress by accepting the heavy infiltration of the IRA and Sinn Fein by British intelligence.

Yeh sure SS, I just picked up a copy of the 'current secret British intelligence documents', fascinating reading altogether.
Get yours free in the Daily Mail all this week!

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yeh sure SS, I just picked up a copy of the 'current secret British intelligence documents', fascinating reading altogether.
Get yours free in the Daily Mail all this week!

It’s not just a river in Egypt you know!

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

It’s not just a river in Egypt you know!

No denial SS, just fascinated by it all.

I cannot wait to meet the genius in British Intelligence that came up with the idea.

Infiltrate SF and the IRA, get them to call a ceasefire, sign a peace agreement, decommission, and then get them to power in the south in order to get into government and undermine and control the Irish state.

I mean, it is just such a simple, cunning plan isn't it?

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No denial SS, just fascinated by it all.

I cannot wait to meet the genius in British Intelligence that came up with the idea.

Infiltrate SF and the IRA, get them to call a ceasefire, sign a peace agreement, decommission, and then get them to power in the south in order to get into government and undermine and control the Irish state.

I mean, it is just such a simple, cunning plan isn't it?

Do you think it’s the first conflict in the world where intelligence services just give up highly placed intelligence assets?

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Do you think it’s the first conflict in the world where intelligence services just give up highly placed intelligence assets?

Do you think they 'gave them up' after the previous 'conflict' 100 years ago? Or maybe that was the first one?

Does this cut both ways? Does SF and the 'RA have spooks in the British government?

So many questions!

woohoo!!!

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Do you think they 'gave them up' after the previous 'conflict' 100 years ago? Or maybe that was the first one?

Does this cut both ways? Does SF and the 'RA have spooks in the British government?

So many questions!

Yes, it's important to worry about the spooks and double agents of the 70s, 80s and 90s. Meanwhile in today's reality, a suspect device is left outside John Finucanes uncles house. But there's no votes in that.

Water John

The Dail meets at 12 today. Looks like not a lot will be done except elect a CC.

efanton

Its going to be a magic moment when Mary Lou is elected as Taoiseach, when a vote finally does take place.
She walked in to the Dail today with 45 votes already confirmed for her and no doubt another half dozen from the independents and various left of centre parties when the voting starts.

Cant see either Leo or Martin getting close to that number unless they decide that TD's from both FG and FF vote for Martin.
I really cant see that happening, that would be one bitter pill too many for FG.

maccored

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Your making progress by accepting the heavy infiltration of the IRA and Sinn Fein by British intelligence.

so you do think the brits were fighting themselves is what you are claiming. yes? you do realise how stupid that sounds?

Martin Lanigan

efanton wrote: »

Its going to be a magic moment when Mary Lou is elected as Taoiseach, when a vote finally does take place.
She walked in to the Dail today with 45 votes already confirmed for her and no doubt another half dozen from the independents and various left of centre parties when the voting starts.

Cant see either Leo or Martin getting close to that number unless they decide that TD's from both FG and FF vote for Martin.
I really cant see that happening, that would be one bitter pill too many for FG.

Only 35 more to go. You seem more confident than she was though.

James Brown

efanton wrote: »

Its going to be a magic moment when Mary Lou is elected as Taoiseach, when a vote finally does take place.
She walked in to the Dail today with 45 votes already confirmed for her and no doubt another half dozen from the independents and various left of centre parties when the voting starts.

Cant see either Leo or Martin getting close to that number unless they decide that TD's from both FG and FF vote for Martin.
I really cant see that happening, that would be one bitter pill too many for FG.

The Greens were trying to be clever. Run their own lad meaning they'll not be expected to vote for anyone else. Pretty Lilly livered.

efanton

Martin Lanigan wrote: »

Only 35 more to go. You seem more confident than she was though.

Mary Lou got 45, against 84

No I wasn't confident but I had hoped. It would have changed politics in this country utterly and that can only be a good thing.

It would be an end to parties thinking they have an inherent right to rule the country with a fraction of the national vote, to nepotism, to the parish pump politics, continued sheer incompetence, and who knows SF might even surprise us all and actually do a great job in government. Even if they were not the greatest government this country ever had it would still be a good thing for this country in my opinion.

If nothing else i would serve as a serious kick up the hole to those parties that have abused their terms in government and not worked for the benefit of the majority of the people. Every future elections will now be approached differently by every party. No longer will it be the revolving door where if a party is kicked out of government they need only wait 4 years to get back in again. It now might be 8 or 12 years. If nothing else any government elected from now on will have to pull its socks up from day one and deliver on their program of government or accept they will be on the opposition benches for a very considerable time. The same for any TD fortunate enough to be elected Taoiseach.

Loafing Oaf

efanton wrote: »

Mary Lou got 45, against 84

No I wasn't confident but I had hoped.

Do we take this as signal of how little serious enthusiasm for SF leadership there is among the independents and consequently of just how difficult for SF to build its targeted non-FF/FG coalition?

Martin Lanigan

efanton wrote: »

Mary Lou got 45, against 84

No I wasn't confident but I had hoped. It would have changed politics in this country utterly and that can only be a good thing.

It would be an end to parties thinking they have an inherent right to rule the country with a fraction of the national vote, to nepotism, to the parish pump politics, continued sheer incompetence, and who knows SF might even surprise us all and actually do a great job in government. Even if they were not the greatest government this country ever had it would still be a good thing for this country in my opinion.

If nothing else i would serve as a serious kick up the hole to those parties that have abused their terms in government and not worked for the benefit of the majority of the people. Every future elections will now be approached differently by every party. No longer will it be the revolving door where if a party is kicked out of government they need only wait 4 years to get back in again. It now might be 8 or 12 years. If nothing else any government elected from now on will have to pull its socks up from day one and deliver on their program of government or accept they will be on the opposition benches for a very considerable time. The same for any TD fortunate enough to be elected Taoiseach.

What happened to “and no doubt another half dozen from the independents and various left of centre parties when the voting starts”. Were they all going to the toilet at the wrong time?

McMurphy

Martin Lanigan

McMurphy wrote: »

The people decided they wanted more scrounges and voted in Violet-Anne. They decided they wanted more anti-semitism and voted in Cronin.

Amirani

efanton wrote: »

Mary Lou got 45, against 84

No I wasn't confident but I had hoped. It would have changed politics in this country utterly and that can only be a good thing.

It would be an end to parties thinking they have an inherent right to rule the country with a fraction of the national vote.

Sinn Fein only have a fraction of the national vote. The have no more right than Fianna Fail to rule the country.

Gooey Looey

Amirani wrote: »

Sinn Fein only have a fraction of the national vote. The have no more right than Fianna Fail to rule the country.

Lets go back to the polling booth then

Martin Lanigan

Amirani wrote: »

Sinn Fein only have a fraction of the national vote. The have no more right than Fianna Fail to rule the country.

Less than 25% of first preference, wasn’t it?

Martin Lanigan

Gooey Looey wrote: »

Lets go back to the polling booth then

Giving up on the grand coalition already?

efanton

Amirani wrote: »

Sinn Fein only have a fraction of the national vote. The have no more right than Fianna Fail to rule the country.

Absolutely, but until they get the chance to prove themselves in government I am willing to keep an open mind.

If SF were in government and failed miserably I would be saying the exact same thing about them as I am about FF and FG.

But would you not agree that having three big parties can only be a good thing for the country?

Without the revolving door, parties fortunate to be able to form a government will now have to actually deliver. As far as I am concerned if that makes a FF led , a FG led or indeed a SF led government more determined to deliver on their policies, less tolerant of ministers that are no up to scratch and more careful with regards the spending of public money it can only benefit every citizen of the country no matter which party they may support.