Who will possibly be next housing minister ?

MrMusician18

frillyleaf wrote: »

The trouble with this is the houses are being bought by cuckoo funds for profit when there are families trying to get onto housing market and can’t due to lack of supply. These cuckoo funds add to the rental market at extortionate rates eg €1500 per month for a two bed apartment - in a town not near city centre. This means it costs €18,000 just on rent. Three beds are as high as €2000 per month. Families can’t afford this type of rent.

These "cuckoo funds" (why did there always have to be some perjorative for investment companies?) but to rent at the maximum the market will accept. This would be true for big institutional landlords or the guy with one flat.

Supply is the issue and I'm not sure how you can get people building if your plan is to run a cohort of buyers out of the market

DrumSteve

I wonder how many TD's are landlords?

*This may be a rhetorical question.

rob316

Eoghan Murphy voted back in by his Dublin South cohorts tells you all you need to know about the housing crisis. This fella is totally out of touch with the squeezed middle.

Yurt2

rob316 wrote: »

Eoghan Murphy voted back in by his Dublin South cohorts tells you all you need to know about the housing crisis. This fella is totally out of touch with the squeezed middle.

That constituency is stacked with young professionals renting and students who have their vote registered down the country (and less relevant, non-nationals who can't vote).

Ironically, its probably one of the constituencies most adversely effected by the government's bungled housing policy. Just that not enough people who live there actually vote there. If they did, Murphy would almost certainly be out on his ear.

Geuze

MrMusician18 wrote: »

REITs don't pay corporation tax on rental profits but they must pay out 85% of the profits on rental to investors, who must personally pay the taxes due.

The exemption for corporate tax exists in order to prevent double taxation.

I think the above posts on this illustrates the kind of skin deep understanding of politics in Ireland. Most politicians and civil servants generally want the country to succeed, and believe it or not have the interests of the country at heart. I don't think anyone in government is happy with the trolley crisis, housing and any other I'll the country faces - if they're was a silver bullet they'd use it, no hesitation. Schemes like REITs were introduced to address a certain need (not enough investment in commercial property), not to stiff the ordinary taxpayer. There are people who use this ignorance to paint a picture of an elite riding society for their gain, which generally isn't true.

Yes, the taxation regime for REITs is ok.

However, what about the section 110 funds?

Geuze

DrumSteve wrote: »

I wonder how many TD's are landlords?

*This may be a rhetorical question.

Look up the register, all listed there.

JohnnyFlash

Going to be O’Broin now. The dude wrote a book on how to solve the housing issue so I really hope he gets in behind the desk and gets a chance to sort it out.

On a selfish note I’m very happy with their idea about getting rid of local property tax.

Idbatterim

DrumSteve wrote: »

I wonder how many TD's are landlords?

*This may be a rhetorical question.

not the critical questions. they are virtually all homeowners, who want rising prices...

Idbatterim

MrMusician18 wrote: »

All that borrowing would be included in the national debt.

I'm not sure CPO for social Houston would be constitutional. Unlike a road, which can really only go in one place - housing can really go anywhere.

Add in the lack of workers to do this and you see why your simple solution isn't effective.
If there was a silver bullet, it would've been done already. FG haven't sat and watched their support collapse over protecting a few vested interests

it is that simple, proper site value tax, higher density, reduce cost of apartment building, single aspect and potentially smaller units, would drastically cut the cost...

Ush1

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Going to be O’Broin now. The dude wrote a book on how to solve the housing issue so I really hope he gets in behind the desk and gets a chance to sort it out.

On a selfish note I’m very happy with their idea about getting rid of local property tax.

It's not a "crisis" that can be solved.

Thelonious Monk

Bill 2.0 wrote: »

Most of those houses are still there because Jacinta and her cloud of childer aren't willing to accept a free gaff that is further than a 10 minute free-travel-pass bus ride away from a town/city centre.


Working people are expected to buy and pay for property in the commuter belt so that they can spend 2 hours a day in traffic to pay their taxes so the "vulnerable" can live in high value city centre areas whilst they do **** all with their lives generation upon generation.

If you go down the IFSC at night, there are always loads of gangs of kids hanging around from Sherriff St etc. Where are they all going to live? Like they can't keep housing them in the same area, where space is limited?

Assetbacked

Idbatterim wrote: »

not the critical questions. they are virtually all homeowners, who want rising prices...

Allowing 9 years of rents increasing has ensured that a generation of people (those under the age of 40) are mightily pi**ed off at the entire housing system and have clearly shown they are engaged in the political process to vote for an alternative to 30 year mortgages worth hundreds of thousands of euro just to prop up housing valuations and to object to ever-increasing rents.

The wealthy in Irish society are the property owners. The elitist English land-owning class have just been replaced by the Irish-landowning class, to the detriment, this time, of the younger people. This was entirely under-appreciated by the land-owning classes (which is unsurprising) but is likely to only be the beginning as the number of renters continues to grow. It is worth noting that many of the supposed well-paid tech and multinational workers are caught up in the rental crisis as well and they couldn't vote in this election but may be able to vote for the next election which will add more weight to the calls to make renting affordable.

Geuze

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

On a selfish note I’m very happy with their idea about getting rid of local property tax.

Local property taxes are the most sensible of all taxes.

JohnnyFlash

Geuze wrote: »

Local property taxes are the most sensible of all taxes.

Oh I know. Like paying for water based on consumption. I’m going with the whole naked self interest thing now though. I’m entitled to stuff and someone else can pay for it.

Idbatterim

Geuze wrote: »

Local property taxes are the most sensible of all taxes.

dont agree, it lets a huge amount off the hook. there should be a council tax

Idbatterim

Bill 2.0 wrote: »

Most of those houses are still there because Jacinta and her cloud of childer aren't willing to accept a free gaff that is further than a 10 minute free-travel-pass bus ride away from a town/city centre.


Working people are expected to buy and pay for property in the commuter belt so that they can spend 2 hours a day in traffic to pay their taxes so the "vulnerable" can live in high value city centre areas whilst they do **** all with their lives generation upon generation.

this hits the nail on the head and who has supported this policy?! FFG! what a fccking joke! I voted for SF on mostly this basis, if FG are giving free housing away, that I would have to pay E2000 a month for, in the case of the luxury apartments in dundrum. It is absolutely unacceptable! This housing crisis is a disgusting and an immoral disgrace for working people! You work your balls off, so that others can get luxury housing and sit on their h*le!

At the same time, FG absolutely support rip off pricing! So they support those at the very bottom and top. How irish :rolleyes:

Yurt2

Ush1 wrote: »

It's not a "crisis" that can be solved.

Ah, one of the that's just the way it is crew.

Chronic unaffordable housing is the will of the gods. As inevitable as the budding of flowers in spring. No thought, plan, action or policy can change it.

And if if I put something in quotation marks, I can make something seem like it's a lefty conspiracy concocted in the bowels of the Kremlin or the editorial room of the Irish Times.

"Corn Flakes" - See? A fake breakfast cereal straight from the quill of Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov himself; consumed only in the minds of the giddy undeserving unwashed masses.

NuMarvel

Muahahaha wrote: »

The sum of FG housing policy was to get the bank of Mam and Dad to make up that shortfall, just like Leo himself did. Well for some but not everyone has wealthy parents to throw them 100k.

On a point of order, Leo's shortfall wasn't funded by the bank of Mam and Dad.

It was funded by an actual bank, because he got a 100% mortgage!

(Not that I'm advocating for a return to those days or anything.)

Feisar

Building up and a metro system would fix the housing crisis I believe.

The wasters shouldn't be getting prime city center housing.

frillyleaf

MrMusician18 wrote: »

These "cuckoo funds" (why did there always have to be some perjorative for investment companies?) but to rent at the maximum the market will accept. This would be true for big institutional landlords or the guy with one flat.

Supply is the issue and I'm not sure how you can get people building if your plan is to run a cohort of buyers out of the market

Personally I think this is a huge problem at the moment. Families looking to buy homes simply can’t compete with cuckoo funds especially when there in huge shortage of suitable housing stock to buy or rent in areas.

Below is an example of just one such investment. 150 houses snapped up by an investor that has the power to charge what ever rent they want in a market where there is scarce rental properties.

To pay rent of €2000 a month for 3 bed house - outside of Dublin - is ludicrous. A family would need to earn nearly 30k per annum - just to pay rent. That is before putting petrol in car or any other expense.

This is not acceptable imo and will not be solved by housing stock being sold in chunks to investors. This housing market will start have knock on affects to employees not being able to afford to live here due to extortionate rents. People simply can’t afford to pay those rents.

People that can buy can’t compete with investors of that scale. Supply is the issue but supplying to investors who can charge what ever they want does not help the market in my opinion. If anything it gives the impression that x number of houses are being built when in fact a lot of them are being snapped up by investors such as below.

https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/cuckoo-funds-spend-145bn-in-nine-months-to-cash-in-on-rental-shortage-38737195.html

Can you imagine being in your 30’s hoping to buy and this happening in your area ? Utterly deflating

Ush1

Yurt! wrote: »

Ah, one of the that's just the way it is crew.

Chronic unaffordable housing is the will of the gods. As inevitable as the budding of flowers in spring. No thought, plan, action or policy can change it.

And if if I put something in quotation marks, I can make something seem like it's a lefty conspiracy concocted in the bowels of the Kremlin or the editorial room of the Irish Times.

"Corn Flakes" - See? A fake breakfast cereal straight from the quill of Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov himself; consumed only in the minds of the giddy undeserving unwashed masses.

Housing issues are a symptom of a large, successful and booming economy. You can't have both. Look at any major cities on earth.

Of course you can change things here or there, do you think everyone will be magically happy then? We all get three bed semis in Dublin 4.

To suggest you will solve housing is laughable, unless of course you want to crash the economy.

Yurt2

Ush1 wrote: »

Housing issues are a symptom of a large, successful and booming economy. You can't have both. Look at any major cities on earth.

Of course you can change things here or there, do you think everyone will be magically happy then? We all get three bed semis in Dublin 4.

To suggest you will solve housing is laughable, unless of course you want to crash the economy.

Singapore. Vienna.

You're gainsaying because you have no answers. You're quite literally saying there is nothing to be done. Basically like FG, which is why they got a hiding.

There is something to be done. I'm not a SF member and I gave them a number 3 preference. But, Their housing policy is the best and most well thought out among the big 3.

I'll put it this way, you're accusing SF of knowing nothing about the economy. You've displayed no evidence you know anything about it yourself. You're just going off on one about Jacintas and think you've hit some sort of higher plane of political knowledge.

frillyleaf

Ush1 wrote: »

Housing issues are a symptom of a large, successful and booming economy. You can't have both. Look at any major cities on earth.

Of course you can change things here or there, do you think everyone will be magically happy then? We all get three bed semis in Dublin 4.

To suggest you will solve housing is laughable, unless of course you want to crash the economy.

I don’t think people are expecting - or want to - buy 3 bed semis in Dublin 4. It may come s a surprise but a lot of people don’t want to live in or near Dublin, or the city for that matter and still can’t afford to rent or buy a home

rob316

Ush1 wrote: »

It's not a "crisis" that can be solved.

Overnight? No. But you can do alot more than stick your hands in your pocket like FG and leave it to the private market.

blanch152

ygolometsipe wrote: »

3) the goverment can issue special bonds to pay for the houses with mortgage interest repayments used to pay off the coupon later.
.

Not possible under EU law.

Ush1

Yurt! wrote: »

Singapore. Vienna.

You're gainsaying because you have no answers. You're quite literally saying there is nothing to be done. Basically like FG, which is why they got a hiding.

There is something to be done. I'm not a SF member and I gave them a number 3 preference. But, Their housing policy is the best and most well thought out among the big 3.

I'll put it this way, you're accusing SF of knowing nothing about the economy. You've displayed no evidence you know anything about it yourself. You're just going off on one about Jacintas and think you've hit some sort of higher plane of political knowledge.

Vienna's hasn't been implemented yet and already had negative effects. Singapore? A tax haven with sky hogh cost of living?

I never mentioned Jacinta's or anything. I think you're projecting there. Crashing the economy may solve it, but sure hang on, you know better. New York, London, Paris etc.. just need you on the job to "solve" their housing issues.

Ush1

rob316 wrote: »

Overnight? No. But you can do alot more than stick your hands in your pocket like FG and leave it to the private market.

That's not what FG have done.

Yurt2

Ush1 wrote: »

Vienna's hasn't been implemented yet and already had negative effects. Singapore? A tax haven with sky hogh cost of living?

I never mentioned Jacinta's or anything. I think you're projecting there. Crashing the economy may solve it, but sure hang on, you know better. New York, London, Paris etc.. just need you on the job to "solve" their housing issues.

Do your homework. Vienna has the most effective and well lauded affordable rental model in Europe It has in fact been in place for most of last century (not implemented?) and has evolved as the decades have gone by. It forms one pillar of SF's housing proposals so the fact that you're unfamiliar with the Viennese model means your speaking from a position of lack of knowledge and automatic predjudice against a very good housing platform.

Similarly, Singapore has a globally recognized affordable home ownership scheme that 80 percent of the population avail of. Again, you're unfamiliar with it, and you don't appear to want to know. Much like FG.

As for the rest of your post, you're just listing city names and taking about crashing the economy so I'm not sure what to do with it.

This is where we're at with FG, they spent the entire election cycle saying things are they way they are and their approach is the only way, literally being reactive to mounting problems. Not a scintilla of humility that they're getting it wrong or even a question in their minds that there is another way.

As for their supporters, any suggestion of different ideas and you get derided as a waster looking for a forever home or a Marxist. They've never been so obnoxious to be honest.

Oh and FYI, Paris has dipped it's toe in the Viennese model, and it's limited experiment with it had been successful.

martingriff

Seinn Fein will be given Health and Housing will look for Justice but will not get it

martingriff

Idbatterim wrote: »

this hits the nail on the head and who has supported this policy?! FFG! what a fccking joke! I voted for SF on mostly this basis, if FG are giving free housing away, that I would have to pay E2000 a month for, in the case of the luxury apartments in dundrum. It is absolutely unacceptable! This housing crisis is a disgusting and an immoral disgrace for working people! You work your balls off, so that others can get luxury housing and sit on their h*le!

At the same time, FG absolutely support rip off pricing! So they support those at the very bottom and top. How irish :rolleyes:

You voted for SF thinking they won't do this seriously