What have we come to

FrancieBrady

Augeo wrote: »

Who do you reckon Mary Lou is influenced by?
Why can't she back the Special Criminal Court?

Would your two mates actually answer either question 100% honestly?
Will you answer?

Do your research?

Look up Mary Robinson's concerns and criticisms of the SCC when she was a barrister.
Look up the UN's concerns and criticisms
Look up the ICCL's concerns and criticisms.

Cross reference them and see do they tally with SF's and others here concerns and criticisms.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Do your research?

Look up Mary Robinson's concerns and criticisms of the SCC when she was a barrister.
Look up the UN's concerns and criticisms
Look up the ICCL's concerns and criticisms.

Cross reference them and see do they tally with SF's and others here concerns and criticisms.

Do my research, lol ......... why can't she just come out and say it. Mary Lou is no more the leader of SF than I am.

Augeo wrote: »

Who do you reckon Mary Lou is influenced by?
Why can't she back the Special Criminal Court?

Would your two mates actually answer either question 100% honestly?
Will you answer?

FrancieBrady

Augeo wrote: »

Do my research, lol ......... why can't she just come out and say it. Mary Lou is no more the leader of SF than I am.

Say what? That she has concerns? Why she has concerns?

Brian?

Eric Cartman wrote: »

ill put it in terms somebody the other side of the aisle might understand, imagine you and your commune were just about affording life, then all of a sudden weed was 30 quid a gram, cans were 4 euro each and amber leaf cost 50 euro a box, and the reason for that increase was that the government needed to buy gold crowns, something you consider a complete waste of money.

well thats how taxpayers feel about paying for all of the free houses and welfare.

I love how you’ve decided you can speak on behalf of all tax payers.

I’m a tax payer and I certainly don’t feel like that.

car_radio19834

road_high wrote: »

Not even Mary lou would back the SCC when asked. Deeply disturbing but a representative view

Boards favourite candidate Saoirse McHugh went further than Mary Lou and said it should be abolished. lol

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Say what? That she has concerns? Why she has concerns?

Francie, you are d1cking about........ why did she not asnwer the question, she did not mention any concerns at all, she didn't answer.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/general-election-2020-prime-time-debate-leaders-clash-over-housing-and-special-criminal-court-38927804.html

"Ms McDonald repeatedly refused to give her personal view on the Special Criminal Court which is responsible for convicting serious criminals and terrorists.

Ms McDonald was asked her opinion on the court several times during the televised general election debate.

She said she was in favour of courts generally but would not directly address the Special Criminal Court which her party previously said should be abolished.

The court has successfully convicted members of the Provisional IRA"

mariaalice

The world or even Ireland did is not going to collapse just because SF could be in government.

I did not vote for them, but it is a vote for something different and I respect that plus some though not all in FG and FF had got very arrogant never an attractive trait.

facehugger99

The electorate will get what they deserve with SF.

FG brought the country back from a €19bn a year deficit, 16% unemployment rate, mass emigration and potential Brexit chaos - in the last 8 years.

The response has been to chuck them out of office and vote in populist charlatans with a shadowy army council pulling the strings.

There is no incentive for political parties to do anything next time out other than make the most outlandish manifesto claims possible.

I remember when we used to regularly clap ourselves on the back and tell each other what a mature and sensible electorate we were - turns out we are dumber than the UK and US.


Let SF have it it.

The next time I hear a Millennial moaning about the state of the country I'll refer them to this moment.

mariaalice

facehugger99 wrote: »

The electorate will get what they deserve with SF.

FG brought the country back from a €19bn a year deficit, 16% unemployment rate, mass emigration and potential Brexit chaos - in the last 8 years.

The response has been to chuck them out of office and vote in populist charlatans with a shadowy army council pulling the strings.

There is no incentive for political parties to do anything next time out other than make the most outlandish manifesto claims possible.

I remember when we used to regularly clap ourselves on the back and tell each other what a mature and sensible electorate we were - turns out we are dumber than the UK and US.


Let SF have it it.

The next time I hear a Millennial moaning about the state of the country I'll refer them to this moment.

Populism is a feature of modern politics, SF will stumble when faced with the reality of governing, its one thing shouting from the side/ having all the easy answers and another actually being in power.

In other words, I would not worry about Ireland.

FrancieBrady

Augeo wrote: »

Francie, you are d1cking about........ why did she not asnwer the question, she did not mention any concerns at all, she didn't answer.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/general-election-2020-prime-time-debate-leaders-clash-over-housing-and-special-criminal-court-38927804.html

"Ms McDonald repeatedly refused to give her personal view on the Special Criminal Court which is responsible for convicting serious criminals and terrorists.

Ms McDonald was asked her opinion on the court several times during the televised general election debate.

She said she was in favour of courts generally but would not directly address the Special Criminal Court which her party previously said should be abolished.

The court has successfully convicted members of the Provisional IRA"

Each of the party leaders closed off rabbit holes in the debates.

To get into a spat about the SCC was always going to hurt MLMD because it is one of those emotive issues that could be twisted.

Witness Michael avoiding taking responsibility for being in the crash FF gov in 2008 and Leo hiding Simon Harris and Murphy, to avoid bad exposure and damaging emotive questioning and debate.

In short, she didn't answer because it was politically expedient not to.

Is that correct behaviour, NO, it certainly isn't. But they all do it, politics is not going to ever change in that sense.

Cupatae

Big Ears wrote: »

I'm intruiged how far SF could have pushed things.
I mean they got several candidates who weren't deemed strong enough to be a local councillor a few months ago elected, and there's more to come tomorrow.

Could they have gotten Larry Murphy (or another nefarious character) elected in the right constituency ?

It just goes to show you how bad the alternatives are if people are voting for such "nefarious" characters.

BarryD2

I'd be very concerned for the stability of this island if SF get anywhere near power in both NI and the Republic. The end justifies the means for them and their primary policy is to achieve a UI. That's fine as far as it goes but voters here are literally playing with fire to let them anywhere near the handles of power..

Cupatae

FTA69

Augeo wrote: »

Who do you reckon Mary Lou is influenced by?
Why can't she back the Special Criminal Court?

Would your two mates actually answer either question 100% honestly?
Will you answer?

I reckon McDonald is influenced by her party's ruling body and various strains of membership, the same as any other political party. The idea there is some secret Army Council in the background ordering her what to do is fantasy and nonsense. The British-backed Independent Monitoring Commission has said the IRA no longer exists and no longer has an effective structure. People roaring and shouting about the organisation and coming out with this 'shadowy figure' stuff are quite literally living in the past.

As for the Special Criminal Court; it should be abolished. The idea that nonjury courts can sentence people to long stretches on the sole word of a Garda superintendent is wrong. And by the way, this opinion is shared by the UN, Amnesty International, the Irish Council of Civil Liberties and the European Union. It is not a democratic norm that everyone should support, it's an aberration that has been condemned by people from across the political spectrum internationally.

The fact McDonald didn't come out and enthusiastically back it isn't some sort of 'gotcha' moment for her opponents.

BarryD2

Won't be surprised if in future we see a consolidation of the FF/FG parties which will then form a large middle ground party in the country with a rag bag of 'left wing' parties, independents and Sinn Féin - I don't think SF are a left wing party and they won't find common cause with the others.

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

I reckon McDonald is influenced by her party's ruling body and various strains of membership, the same as any other political party...............

The "various strains of membership" in SF's case can likely encompass some very unsavoury characters ........ that's without doubt ....... https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-irish-times-view-on-sinn-f%C3%A9in-think-once-then-think-carefully-1.4162972

FrancieBrady

Augeo wrote: »

The "various strains of membership" in SF's case can likely encompass some very unsavoury characters ........ that's without doubt ....... https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-irish-times-view-on-sinn-f%C3%A9in-think-once-then-think-carefully-1.4162972

Would you call Michael Martin pivoting to being open now to SF after what he said...unsavory?

What do you think Breege Quinn will think...will the IT/RTE/and all the other 'concerned/outraged' be hot footing to her door for a comment?

RandomName2

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Say what? That she has concerns? Why she has concerns?

She has concerns because the SCC targets republican gangs that have historic or current connections with Sinn Fein. While this is a subsection of organized crime on the island (for instance the Kinnahan gang is unrelated) other gangs very much are.

The state has always taken a quite aggressive view in relation to paramilitary organizations as these organizations directly threaten the authority of the state. Sinn Fein has always taken a soft view on paramilitary organizations. Sinn Fein feels they should be gently brought into the fold and engaged with diplomatically.

Organized crime is still a major issue here. Just last month we had a young gang member's hacked up body dumped in a public area. The SCC is needed more than ever. The attitude of Sinn Fein and its supporters in border areas to never bear witness to crimes is particularly worrying. Sinn Fein cooperates with the police, in both Ireland and the UK, but only seems to do so grudgingly.

storker

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Look its not in SF interests to let the 'smuggling mafia' get big in a country they are trying to govern.

I agree with you its not ideal. But if you look for the best in people and feed THAT. You often end up with better people.

Starve the mafia out of sf feed the passion they have for what they believe in.


I have heard them talk. Its clear they have feeling behind what they say. Feed that. Smother the dark in them.

And...they have five years in which to make good on their potential. All those votes this weekend are very much on loan. I wouldn't be assuming that SF's hard core has grown much in the last week. If they don't deliver, or let slip any glimpse of green jackboots, electoral punishment is likely to be swift and terrible. Just ask FF.

FTA69

Augeo wrote: »

The "various strains of membership" in SF's case can likely encompass some very unsavoury characters ........ that's without doubt ....... https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-irish-times-view-on-sinn-f%C3%A9in-think-once-then-think-carefully-1.4162972

I’ve no reason to disbelieve that some people who may have been associated with the IRA at some stage may have been involved in this murder.

That on the other hand, does not mean Sinn Féin as a party or McDonald as a leader is culpable for it. And it’s clear as day that Quinn’s murder is being used as a political scoring point, there’s a reason this stuff has been dug up just before an election.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Would you call Michael Martin pivoting to being open now to SF after what he said...unsavory?........

Totally, MM was essentially a Bertie Ahern alter boy twenty years ago, he's a maggot.

Trying to ensure terrorists aren't dealt with is a different level of maggot though.

mariaalice

How could anyone trust FF before the election no going into government with SF under any circumstance after the elections well we might consider it.

FrancieBrady

Augeo wrote: »

Totally, MM was essentially a Bertie Ahern alter boy twenty years ago, he's a maggot.

Trying to ensure terrorists aren't dealt with is a different level of maggot though.

It is easy to say that.

But you cannot get away from the fact that it isn't only SF who have these concerns.

Other democracies function quite well without the need for Special Courts. Something else you cannot get away from.

ShooterSF

facehugger99 wrote: »

I remember when we used to regularly clap ourselves on the back and tell each other what a mature and sensible electorate we were - turns out we are dumber than the UK and US.

That's probably you not realising you were in an echo chamber if so. Plenty of people I know have grown up aghast at our electorate blaming one party for screwing things up and handing power to the other party only to do the same think in reverse a few years later as if repeating the same choices would somehow eventually bring different results.
Personally my views are a lot more aligned with the social Democrats but I gave my 3rd preference to SF (after the greens) and I'm glad to see them break up the usual baton passing between ff and fg.

Idbatterim

BarryD2 wrote: »

Won't be surprised if in future we see a consolidation of the FF/FG parties which will then form a large middle ground party in the country with a rag bag of 'left wing' parties, independents and Sinn Féin - I don't think SF are a left wing party and they won't find common cause with the others.

how wouldnt they find a common cause, they all want a massive welfare state and mad taxation for mid to high income earners, thats what we have had for decades...

Cupatae

FF and FG got a nice kick in the teeth, and no longer get the free pass in to gov that usually do, they ll actually have to earn it next time.

Cupatae

Hear me out on this one, but what if SF actually do a good job? they are being wrote off before even having a chance.

BanditLuke

Deleted User wrote: »

Since the global recession, people have become hysterical in elections. I thought the US were crazy voting Trump. I thought the UK were even crazier voting brexit, even though it was only 51%. Now we’ve done the same and voted anarchy.
If SF were so popular, the polls and local elections would have indicated it.

It was a last minute bandwagon type surge.
Anything but FF/FG vote.

We need people to be more reasonable about voting. And have realistic expectations.
FF and the Greens set this country back 20 years. It took only 9 to bounce back.

The electorate have grown up and been more reasonable and responsible voting for SF. Voting in FFG again would have shown massive amounts of immaturity and stupidness.

FrancieBrady

Cupatae wrote: »

FF and FG got a nice kick in the teeth, and no longer get the free pass in to gov that usually do, they ll actually have to earn it next time.

Absolutely.

The toys are coming out of the pram, because everything has changed.

Zetor19

Martin is an embarrassment the way he went back in his word so soon . while the votes were still been count ffs. I bet there are many thousands of people this morning myself included thinking wtf have we done : the ira are going to turn this place into a mini Columbia.