What have we come to

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

.................
Other democracies function quite well without the need for Special Courts. Something else you cannot get away from.

And the SCC has done great work here in this democracy, something that you cannot get away from.

Cupatae

Zetor19 wrote: »

Martin is an embarrassment the way he went back in his word so soon . while the votes were still been count ffs. I bet there are many thousands of people this morning myself included thinking wtf have we done : the ira are going to turn this place into a mini Columbia.

The best thing sf have basically told him to do one they wont go into gov with him, he looks like a right ape now and has destroyed his credibility atleast if he stuck to his guns to the end you d have some bit of respect for him, but it shows his true character now, squirming to try and retain any shred of power.

FTA69

Zetor19 wrote: »

Martin is an embarrassment the way he went back in his word so soon . while the votes were still been count ffs. I bet there are many thousands of people this morning myself included thinking wtf have we done : the ira are going to turn this place into a mini Columbia.

Have you ever been to Colombia?

FrancieBrady

Augeo wrote: »

And the SCC has done great work here in this democracy, something that you cannot get away from.

No, No, NO. You put democracy aside to instigate Special Courts and Special Powers.

That is why they are called 'Special'. Special circumstances allow for them.

BanditLuke

Just like after Trump got elected the attack on him and his voters continued = He's odds on to get elected again.

Just like after the Brexit vote the attack on Brexit voters and the decision of the electorate continued = Brexit going ahead

I fully expect the attack on SF voters and SF to continue after this resulting in SF getting elected outright next election.

People need to learn the lesson and the lesson is stop belittling the democractic decisions of the electorate you don't agree with and accept their will.

Jinglejangle69

BanditLuke wrote: »

Just like after Trump got elected the attack on him and his voters continued = He's odds on to get elected again.

Just like after the Brexit vote the attack on Brexit voters and the decision of the electorate continued = Brexit going ahead

I fully expect the attack on SF voters and SF to continue after this resulting in SF getting elected outright next election.

People need to learn the lesson and the lesson is stop belittling the democractic decisions of the electorate you don't agree with and accept their will.

Isn't that what SF supporters and opposition parties did the last 9 years?

Idbatterim

Zetor19 wrote: »

Martin is an embarrassment the way he went back in his word so soon . while the votes were still been count ffs. I bet there are many thousands of people this morning myself included thinking wtf have we done : the ira are going to turn this place into a mini Columbia.

FFG already have the place like a mini banana republic, just without the weather!

BanditLuke

Zetor19 wrote: »

Martin is an embarrassment the way he went back in his word so soon . while the votes were still been count ffs. I bet there are many thousands of people this morning myself included thinking wtf have we done : the ira are going to turn this place into a mini Columbia.

People like you and those type of comments are the reason SF will possibly in government very soon.

suicide_circus

Cupatae wrote: »

Hear me out on this one, but what if SF actually do a good job? they are being wrote off before even having a chance.

what does a "good job" look like? i ask because it could mean different things to different people.

road_high

BanditLuke wrote: »

Just like after Trump got elected the attack on him and his voters continued = He's odds on to get elected again.

Just like after the Brexit vote the attack on Brexit voters and the decision of the electorate continued = Brexit going ahead

I fully expect the attack on SF voters and SF to continue after this resulting in SF getting elected outright next election.

People need to learn the lesson and the lesson is stop belittling the democractic decisions of the electorate you don't agree with and accept their will.

Yes but there's the little inconvienent matter of actual governing - SF decidely reticent on that I notice, jumping straight onto the next election.

threeball

Cupatae wrote: »

The best thing sf have basically told him to do one they wont go into gov with him, he looks like a right ape now and has destroyed his credibility atleast if he stuck to his guns to the end you d have some bit of respect for him, but it shows his true character now, squirming to try and retain any shred of power.

Eoghan Harris was adamant on Newstalk on Friday that he was the most honest politician in the country and a man of his word. Was there ever a worse interview :D:D:D

BanditLuke

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Isn't that what SF supporters and opposition parties did the last 9 years?

You are missing my point. I wasn't in favour of Trump getting elected or Brexit but once these things are decided at the ballot box that should be the end of it. Endless rattling on about it doesn't help in fact it has the exact opposite effect that you would want.

Already this morning iv'e heard so called knowledgeable politicial analyists call SF the IRA, party of the scronger and dole heads etc... That's a foolish approach

Yurt2

Augeo wrote: »

And the SCC has done great work here in this democracy, something that you cannot get away from.

Nicky Kelly or Peter Pringle. Convictions from the SCC that resembled something from a 1970s South American military junta.

Democracy in action. Round up the irregulars and fire whoever in the gaol.

Zetor19

All the tracksuit life long dolers can afford to buy a new Celtic jersey every week now with dole likely to go up with ra in charge.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, No, NO. You put democracy aside to instigate Special Courts and Special Powers.

That is why they are called 'Special'. Special circumstances allow for them.

Yes, and we have special circumstances. We have terrorists operating on this island - see the bomb on the truck last week - that have evolved from the PIRA and we have drug crime lords intimidating local citizens in places like Drogheda using the type of tactics perfected by the PIRA, so we need Special Criminal Courts.

Mary-Lou has already conceded on this.

RandomName2

Cupatae wrote: »

Hear me out on this one, but what if SF actually do a good job? they are being wrote off before even having a chance.

Are you impressed with their management of Northern Ireland in terms of either its economy or infrastructure?

walshb

We absolutely need special criminal courts, and SF need to cop d fook on and stand with people on this issue...

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, and we have special circumstances. We have terrorists operating on this island - see the bomb on the truck last week - that have evolved from the PIRA and we have drug crime lords intimidating local citizens in places like Drogheda using the type of tactics perfected by the PIRA, so we need Special Criminal Courts.

Mary-Lou has already conceded on this.

And we need it to be constantly reviewed. Mary Robinson was hugely critical of the fact that this wasn't happening.

My personal view is that it is not required. Again I point to other democracies, under the same threats, that don't require it.

If juries are coming under threat or intimidation then the situation can likewise be reviewed.

ShooterSF

Zetor19 wrote: »

All the tracksuit life long dolers can afford to buy a new Celtic jersey every week now with dole likely to go up with ra in charge.

Wait I'm confused how have all these life long dolers survived before a crazy left wing welfare state party got elected that will allow them to live such a lifestyle? Are they time travelling dolers?

nkl12xtw5goz70

New York Times headline: "Sinn Fein on Threshold: Party With Old I.R.A. Ties Soars in Irish Election."

The article highlights Sinn Fein's ties to sectarian violence as well as its anti-business platform.

These are not exactly the kinds of headlines you want multinational CEOs reading (in other words, the people who make the investment decisions that provide the jobs that generate the income for the socialists to tax). It also discredits Ireland internationally that a quarter of the electorate are willing to cast votes for a party plagued by its ongoing ties to terrorist atrocities.

RandomName2

Yurt! wrote: »

Nicky Kelly or Peter Pringle. Convictions from the SCC that resembled something from a 1970s South American military junta.

Democracy in action. Round up the irregulars and fire whoever in the gaol.

Okay let's take Peter Pringle.

He, along with two other men, was convicted of the murder of two gardaí in 1980. Detective John Morley and Garda Henry Byrne had five young children between them when they were shot dead during a robbery in Co Roscommon. The killers were acting under a republican flag of convenience.

Two of them, Colm O’Shea and Pat McCann, were captured in the vicinity. The third man managed to flee the scene, but gardaí believed him to be Pringle.

The evidence against him was largely circumstantial, including sightings of him in the Roscommon area in the immediate aftermath of the robbery and evidence that he’d been in the company of the other men in the days prior to the robbery, despite claiming he hadn’t seen them in months. There was forensic evidence involving hair and paint samples and gun residue. This was in the days before the development of DNA evidence. The clinching aspect to his conviction was a partial admission while in custody.

In October 1980, the Special Criminal Court found all three guilty of the capital murder of police officers and sentenced them to death. The last execution in the country had occurred in 1954 and there was no chance the sentence would be carried out. It was duly commuted to 40 years in prison the following May.

In 1995, Pringle succeeded in an appeal against his conviction. He had discovered evidence about a blood sample of his that had not been examined in his trial. The appeal judges decided that a dispute over the sample between two gardaí may have given rise to a credibility issue of Garda evidence. As such, the conviction was deemed unsafe and it was up to the State to try Pringle again.

Pringle attempted to portray this development as a miscarriage of justice. In a memoir entitled Surviving Ireland’s Death Row, he claimed evidence was “concocted” by retired detective superintendent Tom Connolly. In fact, the appeal judges made a point of noting they were not suggesting any officers had acted anyway dishonestly. O’Shea and McCann were released in 2013 after 33 years in prison. They never publicly revealed the identity of the third man.

Source: https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/michael-clifford/peter-pringle-is-no-death-row-poster-boy-419107.html

Yurt2

? Exactly, it was an unsafe conviction reached by a state and judiciary scrambling to pin the murders on anyone they could pin it on.

He was sentenced to death. If you're comfortable with that series of events then I'd submit you're not particularly concerned with democracy, justice and the constitutional order.

Ush1

Kason Fancy Coal wrote: »

New York Times headline: "Sinn Fein on Threshold: Party With Old I.R.A. Ties Soars in Irish Election."

The article highlights Sinn Fein's ties to sectarian violence as well as its anti-business platform.

These are not exactly the kinds of headlines you want multinational CEOs reading (in other words, the people who make the investment decisions that provide the jobs that generate the income for the socialists to tax). It also discredits Ireland internationally that a quarter of the electorate are willing to cast votes for a party plagued by its ongoing ties to terrorist atrocities.

It's already effecting Irish share prices.

RandomName2

Kason Fancy Coal wrote: »

New York Times headline: "Sinn Fein on Threshold: Party With Old I.R.A. Ties Soars in Irish Election."

The article highlights Sinn Fein's ties to sectarian violence as well as its anti-business platform.

These are not exactly the kinds of headlines you want multinational CEOs reading (in other words, the people who make the investment decisions that provide the jobs that generate the income for the socialists to tax). It also discredits Ireland internationally that a quarter of the electorate are willing to cast votes for a party plagued by its ongoing ties to terrorist atrocities.

This has gone out around the world. Every news channel mentions in passing that the Irish political landscape has seen upheaval in the elction of a party that has historic connections to terrorism. That was how Euronews put it I think. If they were to expand upon that they could say 'slightly euroskeptic party with very poor relations with the UK that seeks to increase public spending by targeting multinationals. Interesting position for the Irish electorate to take in the midst of Brexit negotiations.'

mariaalice

The special criminal court is a minor but important element in all this, what about a few discussions about the policies and vision for Irish society.

Listen very carefully to any SF spokespeople and candidates in the media, it's housing, health, and a united Ireland. The important point is a united Ireland is alway in third place in the order of priority a very important point.

Surprised that there has not been more comment about Michelle O'Neill attending a PSNI recruitment event, they are the little nuanced event to watch out for as an indication of the way it's going.

Kason Fancy Coal

Kason Fancy Coal wrote: »

It also discredits Ireland internationally that a quarter of the electorate are willing to cast votes for a party plagued by its ongoing ties to terrorist atrocities.

More than a hint of bitterness, and a large dollop of hyperbole. That's it now lads, the multinationals are shifting operations to Morocco tomorrow. Never mind that the free market is a rigged casino. "Discredited internationally" for sure :rolleyes:

Gazzmonkey

Well done Mary Lou :cool::D;):)

Pamela Landy

Zetor19 wrote: »

All the tracksuit life long dolers can afford to buy a new Celtic jersey every week now with dole likely to go up with ra in charge.

Ah the old life long dolers/Celtic jersey line re-visited. :rolleyes:

RandomName2

Yurt! wrote: »

? Exactly, it was an unsafe conviction reached by a state and judiciary scrambling to pin the murders on anyone they could pin it on.

There are always going to be unsafe convictions. It was appealed, and the appeal won, as it should. The other two convictions were sound.

Yurt! wrote: »

He was sentenced to death.

Not terribly relevant.

Didn't France refuse to extradite a republican terrorist back here for murder once, because we technically had capital punishment on the statute books? They didn't exactly cover themselves in glory with that.

Yurt! wrote: »

If you're comfortable with that series of events then I'd submit you're not particularly concerned with democracy, justice and the constitutional order.

That's like me saying that if you're comfortable with that series of events then you probably don't have much concern for the lives of serving garda. You gotta admit, republicans have form on that one.

quokula

RandomName2 wrote: »

This has gone out around the world. Every news channel mentions in passing that the Irish political landscape has seen upheaval in the elction of a party that has historic connections to terrorism. That was how Euronews put it I think. If they were to expand upon that they could say 'slightly euroskeptic party with very poor relations with the UK that seeks to increase public spending by targeting multinationals. Interesting position for the Irish electorate to take in the midst of Brexit negotiations.'

I can only hope that the fact we're blessed with an excellent electoral system in this country allows the other parties to come to an agreement that results in a government that represents the 75% of voters who are appalled by Sinn Fein.