What have we come to

nkl12xtw5goz70

Ush1 wrote: »

It's already effecting Irish share prices.

Indeed. The ISEQ Index, bank stocks, and real estate stocks are all down today. The Irish Residential Properties REIT has seen its biggest drop in almost four years.

Ireland is already being viewed as less of a safe place to invest, thanks to this Sinn Fein vote.

mariaalice

Deleted User wrote: »

More than a hint of bitterness, and a large dollop of hyperbole. That's it now lads, the multinationals are shifting operations to Morocco tomorrow. Never mind that the free market is a rigged casino. "Discredited internationally" me hole :rolleyes:

It will be a minor concern fo the multinationals paraphrasing the CEO of one of the multinationals who said about another issue, its just Political crap. The multinationals are just interested in making money.

RandomName2

Deleted User wrote: »

More than a hint of bitterness, and a large dollop of hyperbole. That's it now lads, the multinationals are shifting operations to Morocco tomorrow. Never mind that the free market is a rigged casino. "Discredited internationally" for sure :rolleyes:

You can look it up in their manifesto. The biggest part of Sinn Fein's budget is predicated on taxing the multinationals. Some people have also argued that the tax on high earners would put off multinationals. I don't know about that one.

The position of the multinationals is based upon costs (and technical skills of the workforce). They have no inherent loyalty to Ireland. You can play Come Out Ye Black and Tans on loud speakers in Grand Canal till the cows come home, they have no zero interest in parochial nationalism. If they find their interests are better served elsewhere they can move. Moving costs a lot so it would have to be a big push, but we already saw Apple pulling out of a big investment here due to bureaucratic red tape.

sky88

Honestly i find it more worrying that people are voting sinn fein with no real knowledge about what there polices are

Tbh i think we have just a bunch of terrible options to vote for all round

endacl

BanditLuke wrote: »

So you'd like to see SF fail and the hense the country fail?

I thought the country was failing, and that’s what all the whinging was about?

Yurt2

RandomName2 wrote: »

There are always going to be unsafe convictions. It was appealed, and the appeal won, as it should. The other two convictions were sound.



Not terribly relevant.

Didn't France refuse to extradite a republican terrorist back here for murder once, because we technically had capital punishment on the statute books? They didn't exactly cover themselves in glory with that.



That's like me saying that if you're comfortable with that series of events then you probably don't have much concern for the lives of serving garda. You gotta admit, republicans have form on that one.

NOT RELEVANT BY ORDER OF INTERNET RELEVANCE ADJUDICATOR

He spent 15 years in prison. That's a nice cosy point of view to hold when you weren't subject to a shambolic conviction.

2 out of 3 ain't bad in the mind of someone who cares little for the principles that underpin our justice system I suppose.

Mad_maxx

Kason Fancy Coal wrote: »

New York Times headline: "Sinn Fein on Threshold: Party With Old I.R.A. Ties Soars in Irish Election."

The article highlights Sinn Fein's ties to sectarian violence as well as its anti-business platform.

These are not exactly the kinds of headlines you want multinational CEOs reading (in other words, the people who make the investment decisions that provide the jobs that generate the income for the socialists to tax). It also discredits Ireland internationally that a quarter of the electorate are willing to cast votes for a party plagued by its ongoing ties to terrorist atrocities.

Any sort of financial, construction or REIT is taking a real pasting on the ISEQ this morning

Choices have immediate consequences, markets reprice quickly

Annabella1

Think change could be good
Housing and Health ministries for SF for starters
need a new approach
easy to make promises in opposition

um7y1h83ge06nx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Any sort of financial, construction or REIT is taking a real pasting on the ISEQ this morning

Choices have immediate consequences, markets reprice quickly

Who needs markets, investments and corporations when we will be living in the bliss of an United Ireland lol.

And don't worry either about paying for all the public spending, the money will magically appear.

SF, a great bunch of lads.

RandomName2

Yurt! wrote: »

NOT RELEVANT BY ORDER OF INTERNET RELEVANCE ADJUDICATOR

No, it's not relevant because capital punishment hasn't been carried out here by the state in the order of about 60 years (or about 30 years at the time of the conviction). Him technically being on a non-existent death row is not relevant as it is not relevant.

The Irish State hasn't carried out execution in the name of law and order in the last 60 years. The same could not be said of certain non-army army councils in the same period however.

tayto lover

The choices now are =

1. FF/SF Government.

2. Back voting again in a very short time.

3. As you were FF/FG.

tayto lover

RandomName2 wrote: »

No, it's not relevant because capital punishment hasn't been carried out here by the state in the order of about 60 years (or about 30 years at the time of the conviction). Him technically being on a non-existent death row is not relevant as it is not relevant.

The Irish State hasn't carried out execution in the name of law and order in the last 60 years. The same could not be said of certain non-army army councils in the same period however.

1954 was the last time. Michael Manning hanged for murder.

BanditLuke

endacl wrote: »

I thought the country was failing, and that’s what all the whinging was about?

Have you tried to buy a house or get affordable rent the last few years? How about spending 48hrs on a trolley in a hospital like my mother has. How about wait over two years for a procedure in a public hospital because you can't afford private health care like one of my relations has. How about the justice system?

Yeah the country is failing but i want to see SF succeed not fail it further.

And pointing out all the above issues isn't whinging btw.

BarryD2

sky88 wrote: »

Honestly i find it more worrying that people are voting sinn fein with no real knowledge about what there polices are

Tbh i think we have just a bunch of terrible options to vote for all round

Hobson's Choice alright. But wrt to to your first point, a SF elected this morning who went off on her holliers during the campaign!!!!! That just about says it all, it wouldn't have mattered who they put up in places as long as Mary Lou had her face plastered over the leaflet and posters.

And devious Eamon O'Cuiv licking arse already.

jimmycrackcorm

RandomName2 wrote: »

You can look it up in their manifesto. The biggest part of Sinn Fein's budget is predicated on taxing the multinationals. Some people have also argued that the tax on high earners would put off multinationals. I don't know about that one.

The position of the multinationals is based upon costs (and technical skills of the workforce). They have no inherent loyalty to Ireland. You can play Come Out Ye Black and Tans on loud speakers in Grand Canal till the cows come home, they have no zero interest in parochial nationalism. If they find their interests are better served elsewhere they can move. Moving costs a lot so it would have to be a big push, but we already saw Apple pulling out of a big investment here due to bureaucratic red tape.

I've worked in several multinationals and they have senior staff move here as key executives in building up the Irish operations.

Sinn Feins tax policy is more to discourage that by making this an unattractive option. So maybe the multinationals won't pull out because of corporate tax but they won't grow as much without key staff building up teams here.

And I'd like to see how we fix the hospital waiting lists by trying to encourage hospital consultants to come here and pay higher taxes.

BarryD2

BanditLuke wrote: »

Have you tried to buy a house or get affordable rent the last few years? How about spending 48hrs on a trolley in a hospital like my mother has. How about wait over two years for a procedure in a public hospital because you can't afford private health care like one of my relations has. How about the justice system?

Do you seriously think that SF can tackle these issues in any meaningful way? Whilst maintaining the incomes and living standards that people have become accustomed to here?

And have them with a hand on the tiller in the upcoming Brexit trade negotiations? A party that has been openly Euro skeptical when it suited them in the past??

Yurt2

RandomName2 wrote: »

No, it's not relevant because capital punishment hasn't been carried out here by the state in the order of about 60 years (or about 30 years at the time of the conviction). Him technically being on a non-existent death row is not relevant as it is not relevant.

The Irish State hasn't carried out execution in the name of law and order in the last 60 years. The same could not be said of certain non-army army councils in the same period however.

Right, you're giving a bit 'so what' to the fact a death sentence was handed down to an individual and he subsequently spent 15 years in prison, off the back of a trial not conducted in front of a jury of peers.

It's a simple and important principle of our justice system that guilt or innocence is ultimately overseen by a jury of the public. You're comfortable with dispensing with that centuries old counterweight to state overreach.

Whether you know it or not, you're actually the unthinking rabble that undermines justice.

nkl12xtw5goz70

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Sinn Feins tax policy is more to discourage that by making this an unattractive option. So maybe the multinationals won't pull out because of corporate tax but they won't grow as much without key staff building up teams here.

And is like to see how we fix the hospital reassuring lists by trying to encourage hospital consultants to come here and pay higher taxes.

Exactly. Sinn Fein's tax policy on those earning over €100k will be a major problem for corporate executives and hospital consultants, who generally have many lower-tax options available to them. It's hard to build a thriving economy given the SF mentality of targeting high earners.

Idbatterim

Zetor19 wrote: »

All the tracksuit life long dolers can afford to buy a new Celtic jersey every week now with dole likely to go up with ra in charge.

Fg have increased it every budget except the last ! Nothing new there then

Cupatae

Zetor19 wrote: »

All the tracksuit life long dolers can afford to buy a new Celtic jersey every week now with dole likely to go up with ra in charge.

Has no one told you? we dont have them anymore, country is at 100% employment :D

jimmycrackcorm

Yurt! wrote: »

NOT RELEVANT BY ORDER OF INTERNET RELEVANCE ADJUDICATOR

He spent 15 years in prison. That's a nice cosy point of view to hold when you weren't subject to a shambolic conviction.

2 out of 3 ain't bad in the mind of someone who cares little for the principles that underpin our justice system I suppose.

An unsafe conviction has no relation to the use of jurors or not as it's based on the evidence presented.
Should we also get rid of the rest of the court system because other cases are quashed.

It's pure coincidence that it's SF calling for the abolishment of the SCC as it's their members who are the reason is is needed.

Cupatae

Kason Fancy Coal wrote: »

New York Times headline: "Sinn Fein on Threshold: Party With Old I.R.A. Ties Soars in Irish Election."

The article highlights Sinn Fein's ties to sectarian violence as well as its anti-business platform.

These are not exactly the kinds of headlines you want multinational CEOs reading (in other words, the people who make the investment decisions that provide the jobs that generate the income for the socialists to tax). It also discredits Ireland internationally that a quarter of the electorate are willing to cast votes for a party plagued by its ongoing ties to terrorist atrocities.

They wouldnt have a vested interest would they to have such a sensationalist headline..like i dunno... selling papers?

Id imagine most CEOs would be reasonably intelligent..

But whats more worrying, even with all that you have described, people still vote for them, what does that say about the other parties how bad must they be for people to vote in as you "terrorists "

um7y1h83ge06nx

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's pure coincidence that it's SF calling for the abolishment of the SCC as it's their members who are the reason is is needed.

Well said, Martin Ferris and others have all been customers of the SCC.

SusieBlue

facehugger99 wrote: »

The electorate will get what they deserve with SF.

FG brought the country back from a €19bn a year deficit, 16% unemployment rate, mass emigration and potential Brexit chaos - in the last 8 years.

The response has been to chuck them out of office and vote in populist charlatans with a shadowy army council pulling the strings.

There is no incentive for political parties to do anything next time out other than make the most outlandish manifesto claims possible.

I remember when we used to regularly clap ourselves on the back and tell each other what a mature and sensible electorate we were - turns out we are dumber than the UK and US.


Let SF have it it.

The next time I hear a Millennial moaning about the state of the country I'll refer them to this moment.

A lot of people, myself included, refused to vote FG because of the unprofessional and inexcusable actions of the likes of Maria Bailey, Verona Murphy, and Catherine Noone et al.
I cannot in good conscience support a party that condones and protects representatives who conduct themselves in such a matter.
FG handled all those scandals incredibly poorly, and it didn't go unnoticed. People were extremely angry and they weren't listened to, FG tried to bluff their way out of it and now they have to pay the price for that.

They have no one to blame but themselves.

Yurt2

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

An unsafe conviction has no relation to the use of jurors or not as it's based on the evidence presented.
Should we also get rid of the rest of the court system because other cases are quashed.

It's pure coincidence that it's SF calling for the abolishment of the SCC as it's their members who are the reason is is needed.

The learned members of the Law Library don't sardonically call it the potting house for nothing. "Potting" being legal slang for bouncing someone into a conviction.

I could turn that on it's head and say if juryless trials are so great, why don't we dispense with the jury trial for all offenses altogether?

It's because jury trials are a critical part in the public's confidence in the administration of justice, and the fact it's a bulwark against the type of hamfisted convictions such as the Pringle or Kelly cases.

gormdubhgorm

Cupatae wrote: »

Doesnt the british goverment protect murderers aswell tho? i mean if you are gonna tell a story tell the whole story not just what suits your own agenda. Why did these murders happen in the first place? the troubles was alot more complex than you are making out.

And sur arent FF and FG murdering people to bait the band, in Hospitals around the country, id say the IRA would have a fair bit of work to catch up to that lot!

My point is SF are not honest and open as party by the very nature of thier history and the background of thier supporters. People talk as if the troubles are ancient history - the younger voters. But the reality is that SF are still affected by it as seen by thier stance on the SCC - as stated by Mary Lou.

It is not because they believe in the amnesty international line on it. It is because the SCC was putting thier 'comrades' in prison during the troubles. Yet on the other side of her mouth Mary Lou claims to be tough on crime and thuggery gangsterism in Dublin etc. There is way too much hypocrisy there.

To glibly compare the deaths in hospitals to the murders of SF Republicanism is very sad. And does not recognise the seriousness of the situation.

The SF 'tout' was only shot dead 14 years ago - Dennis Donaldson.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/man-to-be-charged-with-murder-of-denis-donaldson-1.3945518



Paul Quinn was beaten to a pulp only 13 years ago and his mother had been looking for justice since then. SF only apologised because of fear it could affect them during an election.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Paul_Quinn

There are many things SF wish to sweep under the carpet such as the above.
Much nicer talking about houses and the like in the ROI.

Meanwhile in NI only two years ago Michelle O'Neill was carrying the coffin of republican Annie Cahill - wife of former IRA leader Joe Cahill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Cahill



A woman who was praised by Mary Lou.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2018/11/27/news/tributes-paid-to-annie-cahill-1495391/

I see it as pure hypocrisy, as Mary Lou distances herself from NI when it suits.
But who was beside Mary Lou with a beaming smile in the count centre.

And vice versa in the NI elections



When voting SF you are not only voting for those in the ROI you are voting for those in NI warts and all. SF call themselves the all ireland party. Yet in the ROI election Mary Lou made damn sure to point out that the election was in the ROI not NI. So she could disown SF's record on homelessness and health in NI.
And crucially to distance herself from republicanism in NI.

It is almost as if Mary Lou is partionist when it suits! Rank hypocrisy in my opinion.

armaghlad

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

When voting SF you are not only voting for those in the ROI you are voting for those in NI warts and all. SF call themselves the all ireland party. Yet in the ROI election Mary Lou made damn sure to point out that the election was in the ROI not NI. So she could disown SF's record on homelessness and health in NI.
And crucially to distance herself from republicanism in NI.

It is almost as if Mary Lou is partionist when it suits! Rank hypocrisy in my opinion.

If you want to be honest and open you could start by stating how homelessness is defined differently in the north: there are approximately 16 people living rough on the streets of Belfast. 16 people too many but stop acting as if this is somehow Sinn Féin’s fault

Ush1

SusieBlue wrote: »

A lot of people, myself included, refused to vote FG because of the unprofessional and inexcusable actions of the likes of Maria Bailey, Verona Murphy, and Catherine Noone et al.
I cannot in good conscience support a party that condones and protects representatives who conduct themselves in such a matter.
FG handled all those scandals incredibly poorly, and it didn't go unnoticed. People were extremely angry and they weren't listened to, FG tried to bluff their way out of it and now they have to pay the price for that.

They have no one to blame but themselves.

I can understand that, but I don't understand going from no FG to SF.

Yurt!

Yurt! wrote: »

The learned members of the Law Library don't sardonically call it the potting house for nothing. "Potting" being legal slang for bouncing someone into a conviction..........

It doesn't line their pockets.

Geuze

RandomName2 wrote: »

You can look it up in their manifesto. The biggest part of Sinn Fein's budget is predicated on taxing the multinationals. Some people have also argued that the tax on high earners would put off multinationals. I don't know about that one.

SF propose a change in how capital allowances are treated.

They plan to raise 700m+ doing this.

Please note - this change would mean a change in the timing of CT receipts.

So it is not a higher tax, it just means more CT paid earlier, and less paid later.

SF list it as a revenue-raising measure.