What have we come to

I see sheep

Kason Fancy Coal wrote: »

It's hard to build a thriving economy given the SF mentality of targeting high earners.

What's the point of a 'thriving economy' when most people can't afford to buy a house.

Keep it 'thriving' for the top 10% when every else gets screwed.

This is why SF won .. don't you get it?

storker

Cupatae wrote: »

They wouldnt have a vested interest would they to have such a sensationalist headline..like i dunno... selling papers?

Id imagine most CEOs would be reasonably intelligent..

But whats more worrying, even with all that you have described, people still vote for them, what does that say about the other parties how bad must they be for people to vote in as you say "terrorists "

Exactly. People have not suddenly fallen in love with SF, it's more that they've seen how little FG cares for the citizens and they've seen FF support that (when they're not driving the economy over a cliff). They know the more fringe parties and Independents won't make any difference so it becomes a choice of voting for everything to stay the same as it is or to take a risk on a party that hasn't been tested yet. That the electorate decided to take the risk is on FFG, not electoral stupidity. There's no need for the financial big boys to wet their panties just yet, and they're as likely to be reacting in the same way the do to any uncertainty as panicking over SF, when SF is not going to have untrammelled power even if it does end up in government.

gormdubhgorm

armaghlad wrote: »

If you want to be honest and open you could start by stating how homelessness is defined differently in the north: there are approximately 16 people living rough on the streets of Belfast. 16 people too many but stop acting as if this is somehow Sinn Féin’s fault

'Defined differently' good one lets make it murky and muddy usual SF tactic.

There way more homeless as defined in NI than the ROI simple as that 10k v 20k.

What are your views of the hypocrisy of Mary Lou on the SCC and her stance on gangster crime in Dublin for example. Or how at the same time Mary Lou tries to distance herself from her 'comrades' in NI because it makes her more palatable to the ROI electorate?

SF have played on the innocence of disenfranchised working class young voters in the ROI who are distant from NI both by time and distance.

Yurt2

Augeo wrote: »

It doesn't line their pockets.

Eh, barristers still represent defendants and the DPP in front of the court.

Unless you think that the defendants aren't entitled to legal counsel in the SCC, which is also quite disturbing if you're entertaining that idea and think the SCC is dandy and a sacred cow.

This is what I mean about people losing the plot about SF, people are willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater with some of most important legal principles in our system.

johnmcdnl

Deleted User wrote: »

More than a hint of bitterness, and a large dollop of hyperbole. That's it now lads, the multinationals are shifting operations to Morocco tomorrow. Never mind that the free market is a rigged casino. "Discredited internationally" for sure :rolleyes:

Look at thew news around the world reporting on it - all mentioning the IRA links. If you don't think that puts a stain on our reputation internationally you're fooling yourself.

https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2020/02/10/poussee-historique-du-parti-nationaliste-sinn-fein-aux-elections-generales-irlandaises_6029008_3210.html

Jusqu’alors marginalisé pour ses liens historiques avec l’IRA, le Sinn Fein

https://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/ira-partiet-sinn-fein-i-topp-infor-irlands-val/

”IRA-partiet” Sinn Féin i topp inför Irlands val

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/02/ireland-sinn-fein-wins-popular-vote-set-historic-gains-200210065213273.html

Sinn Fein, the left-wing Irish nationalist party, has won the popular vote in a general election, with the one-time political wing of the Irish Republican Army (IRA) ....

https://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0006343991

On Monday, the former political wing of the Irish Republican Army (IRA)

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/409201/historic-irish-election-surge-for-leftists-sinn-fein-shatters-country-s-centre-right-duopoly

The former political wing of the IRA is pushing to be part of the next Irish government...

storker

johnmcdnl wrote: »

Look at thew news around the world reporting on it - all mentioning the IRA links. If you don't think that puts a stain on our reputation internationally you're fooling yourself.

This assumes that people don't know what words like "former" and "one-time" mean.

Cupatae

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

My point is SF are not honest and open as party by the very nature of thier history and the background of thier supporters. People talk as if the troubles are ancient history - the younger voters. But the reality is that SF are still affected by it as seen by thier stance on the SCC - as stated by Mary Lou.

It is not because they believe in the amnesty international line on it. It is because the SCC was putting thier 'comrades' in prison during the troubles. Yet on the other side of her mouth Mary Lou claims to be tough on crime and thuggery gangsterism in Dublin etc. There is way too much hypocrisy there.

To glibly compare the deaths in hospitals to the murders of SF Republicanism is very sad. And does not recognise the seriousness of the situation.

The SF 'tout' was only shot dead 14 years ago - Dennis Donaldson.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/man-to-be-charged-with-murder-of-denis-donaldson-1.3945518



Paul Quinn was beaten to a pulp only 13 years ago and his mother had been looking for justice since then. SF only apologised because of fear it could affect them during an election.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Paul_Quinn

There are many things SF wish to sweep under the carpet such as the above.
Much nicer talking about houses and the like in the ROI.

Meanwhile in NI only two years ago Michelle O'Neill was carrying the coffin of republican Annie Cahill - wife of former IRA leader Joe Cahill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Cahill



A woman who was praised by Mary Lou.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2018/11/27/news/tributes-paid-to-annie-cahill-1495391/

I see it as pure hypocrisy, as Mary Lou distances herself from NI when it suits.
But who was beside Mary Lou with a beaming smile in the count centre.

And vice versa in the NI elections



When voting SF you are not only voting for those in the ROI you are voting for those in NI warts and all. SF call themselves the all ireland party. Yet in the ROI election Mary Lou made damn sure to point out that the election was in the ROI not NI. So she could disown SF's record on homelessness and health in NI.
And crucially to distance herself from republicanism in NI.

It is almost as if Mary Lou is partionist when it suits! Rank hypocrisy in my opinion.

By the way your going on we may aswell be expecting a post apocalyptic Ireland with the RA marching the streets 0 money cause everyone is leaving we ll basically be North Korea 2.0 while we kick of the war in the north again,

All politicians by there very nature are hypocrites and swine, but the fact remains people would rather see these in power than any of the rest and that has to be a reflection of how bad the other parties are.

The troubles are a seriously complex issue

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Rank hypocrisy in my opinion.

If you think something is 'rank hypocrisy' then you have every right not to vote for them. Did anyone force you to vote for them?

No, they didn't. Because we live in a democracy and you are free to form your own opinion.

And 24.5% formed their own opinion too.

johnmcdnl

storker wrote: »

This assumes that people don't know what words like "former" and "one-time" mean.

One time KKK member elected president of the USA
Former neo-nazi party wins German election
Party who were in the past the political wing Al-Queda wins Iraqi election

I think any of those headlines would still leave a negative taste in my mouth, even if I seen the words 'one time' or 'former'.
Maybe you are less susceptible to it than most.

gormdubhgorm

SusieBlue wrote: »

A lot of people, myself included, refused to vote FG because of the unprofessional and inexcusable actions of the likes of Maria Bailey, Verona Murphy, and Catherine Noone et al.
I cannot in good conscience support a party that condones and protects representatives who conduct themselves in such a matter.
FG handled all those scandals incredibly poorly, and it didn't go unnoticed. People were extremely angry and they weren't listened to, FG tried to bluff their way out of it and now they have to pay the price for that.

They have no one to blame but themselves.

Ush1 wrote: »

I can understand that, but I don't understand going from no FG to SF.

I agree FG to SF was an odd move -

so the protection of those involved in fraud and silly statements FG =
bad thing and not worth a vote

v

The protection of murders v with a republican background and carrying the coffins of paramilitaries = a good thing as at least they mentioned housing and health

---

The reality is that FG did a good job on Brexit and recovered the economy. But the young SF voters do not see it that way nor do they remember the troubles - nor have any association with NI. There seems to be a lack of understanding on Brexit by most of these voters. Much easier to mention a vague word like 'change'.

I voted FG for the first time in my life Bruton no1 - Noone was also in my constituency but I had no notion of voting for her.

SusieBlue

Ush1 wrote: »

I can understand that, but I don't understand going from no FG to SF.

I can only speak for myself, but FG ruled themselves out with the previously named scandals. I still haven't forgiven FF for the sh*tshow that caused this mess in the first place.
Meanwhile, my local SF representative has done a stellar job since 2016. On a personal level, he was the only local TD to respond and assist a desperate request from a relative with getting her suicidal, drug addicated son into a rehabilitation clinic.
Calls to two TD's from FF & even an Independent candidate were ignored, but our SF TD not only got him a bed, he got his secretary to ring a few months later to see if everything was ok and if we needed anything else.
I know of many other similar stories where he stepped in & helped when no other TD cared.

On a more local level he was an excellent support to the community, he was present and available at every local event and for every issue raised. He spoke well for us in the Dáil and represented our needs.

He has an excellent reputation for going above and beyond for his constituency and even though I wouldn't previously have been an SF voter, no one deserved my #1 more than he did.
Its the same across the country.
A promise of change + young, enthusiastic candidates who are actually present helpful & available in their constituencies is what has contributed their rise in popularity the most.

storker

johnmcdnl wrote: »

Maybe you are less susceptible to it than most.

I just believe in not jumping to conclusions.

gormdubhgorm

Cupatae wrote: »

By the way your going on we may aswell be expecting a post apocalyptic Ireland with the RA marching the streets 0 money cause everyone is leaving we ll basically be North Korea 2.0 while we kick of the war in the north again,

All politicians by there very nature are hypocrites and swine, but the fact remains people would rather see these in power than any of the rest and that has to be a reflection of how bad the other parties are.

The troubles are a seriously complex issue

Maybe it does, but there are many politicians who are hardworking and honest.
But if there were two hypocrites one who was a hypocrite on fraud and the other a hypocrite protecting murderers. Which is worse?

Somehow those hypocrites protecting murderers seemed to be the more palatable choice! By simply using geographical distance and a small bit of distance of history. And the vague statement of 'change'.

thegetawaycar

The people have voted for change, the upturn in the economy hasn't had a hugely positive effect for a lot of the country. It was close to a case of any SF alligned candidate was going to get in, look at Patricia Ryan, on holiday for half the run in, 5th in the last election and still elected.

This is their chance to show what they can do, hopefully they do get to form a Government, the likelihood is that would need to be with FF. If that is the case I hope they take Health, Transport and Housing so they can really input that change and show they won't drive the economy off the cliff.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you think something is 'rank hypocrisy' then you have every right not to vote for them. Did anyone force you to vote for them?

No, they didn't. Because we live in a democracy and you are free to form your own opinion.

And 24.5% formed their own opinion too.

But there is 50% of the electorate who voted for parties who refused to go into collation with SF from the outset because of this hypocrisy. That is the reality. As I said before Francie if did not see this hypocrisy from SF I would have no problem in voting for them in a GE in future.

Ush1

SusieBlue wrote: »

I can only speak for myself, but FG ruled themselves out with the previously named scandals. I still haven't forgiven FF for the sh*tshow that caused this mess in the first place.
Meanwhile, my local SF representative has done a stellar job since 2016. On a personal level, he was the only local TD to respond and assist a desperate request from a relative with getting her suicidal, drug addicated son into a rehabilitation clinic.
Calls to two TD's from FF & even an Independent candidate were ignored, but our SF TD not only got him a bed, he got his secretary to ring a few months later to see if everything was ok and if we needed anything else.
I know of many other similar stories where he stepped in & helped when no other TD cared.

On a more local level he was an excellent support to the community, he was present and available at every local event and for every issue raised. He spoke well for us in the Dáil and represented our needs.

He has an excellent reputation for going above and beyond for his constituency and even though I wouldn't previously have been an SF voter, no one deserved my #1 more than he did.
Its the same across the country.
A promise of change + young, enthusiastic candidates who are actually present helpful & available in their constituencies is what has contributed their rise in popularity the most.

I understand those reasons but that sounds more like the role of local councillors than a TD.

People moan about the Healy Raes getting into the Dail for the same reasons.

gormdubhgorm

SusieBlue wrote: »

I can only speak for myself, but FG ruled themselves out with the previously named scandals. I still haven't forgiven FF for the sh*tshow that caused this mess in the first place.
Meanwhile, my local SF representative has done a stellar job since 2016. On a personal level, he was the only local TD to respond and assist a desperate request from a relative with getting her suicidal, drug addicated son into a rehabilitation clinic.
Calls to two TD's from FF & even an Independent candidate were ignored, but our SF TD not only got him a bed, he got his secretary to ring a few months later to see if everything was ok and if we needed anything else.
I know of many other similar stories where he stepped in & helped when no other TD cared.

On a more local level he was an excellent support to the community, he was present and available at every local event and for every issue raised. He spoke well for us in the Dáil and represented our needs.

He has an excellent reputation for going above and beyond for his constituency and even though I wouldn't previously have been an SF voter, no one deserved my #1 more than he did.
Its the same across the country.
A promise of change + young, enthusiastic candidates who are actually present helpful & available in their constituencies is what has contributed their rise in popularity the most.

So basically your vote was personality based and groundwork at a local level.
So that took priority over the other issues you may have had with SF in the past or present?

SusieBlue

Ush1 wrote: »

I understand those reasons but that sounds more like the role of local councillors than a TD.

People moan about the Healy Raes getting into the Dail for the same reasons.

Its a mixture of both though, I believe the TD in question has one of the highest records of attendance for the Dáil.
He is present on a local level and represents us well on a national level, not like the HR's who just go up to collect their wages.
Meanwhile Mícheal Martin nor Simon Coveny are never to be seen down here, and they haven't exactly done a good job on a national level. No way were either of them getting my vote.

sabat

SusieBlue wrote: »

I can only speak for myself, but FG ruled themselves out with the previously named scandals. I still haven't forgiven FF for the sh*tshow that caused this mess in the first place.
Meanwhile, my local SF representative has done a stellar job since 2016. On a personal level, he was the only local TD to respond and assist a desperate request from a relative with getting her suicidal, drug addicated son into a rehabilitation clinic.
Calls to two TD's from FF & even an Independent candidate were ignored, but our SF TD not only got him a bed, he got his secretary to ring a few months later to see if everything was ok and if we needed anything else.
I know of many other similar stories where he stepped in & helped when no other TD cared.

On a more local level he was an excellent support to the community, he was present and available at every local event and for every issue raised. He spoke well for us in the Dáil and represented our needs.

He has an excellent reputation for going above and beyond for his constituency and even though I wouldn't previously have been an SF voter, no one deserved my #1 more than he did.
Its the same across the country.
A promise of change + young, enthusiastic candidates who are actually present helpful & available in their constituencies is what has contributed their rise in popularity the most.

So basically he stole someone's place on the waiting list to buy votes and, in a more abstract way, stole from your relatives their right to interact with state services without a politician getting a piece of the action.

SusieBlue

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So basically your vote was personality based and groundwork at a local level.
So that took priority over the other issues you may have had with SF in the past or present?

I never said it was personality based. He is a hard worker who cares about his community who is an excellent representative in the Dáil.
I believe he is the better option, both locally and nationally, than FF or FG. That is why he got my #1.

Ush1

SusieBlue wrote: »

Its a mixture of both though, I believe the TD in question has one of the highest records of attendance for the Dáil.
He is present on a local level and represents us well on a national level, not like the HR's who just go up to collect their wages.
Meanwhile Mícheal Martin nor Simon Coveny are never to be seen down here, and they haven't exactly done a good job on a national level. No way were either of them getting my vote.

Whilst the people of Ireland may agree, the people of South Kerry don't.

Cupatae

sabat wrote: »

So basically he stole someone's place on the waiting list to buy votes and, in a more abstract way, stole from your relatives their right to interact with state services without a politician getting a piece of the action.

It's actually a talent putting a negative spin on everything 😂

Ush1

SusieBlue wrote: »

I never said it was personality based. He is a hard worker who cares about his community who is an excellent representative in the Dáil.
I believe he is the better option, both locally and nationally, than FF or FG. That is why he got my #1.

But you're cognisant that he is a member of a party, and that party has a manifesto.

gormdubhgorm

sabat wrote: »

So basically he stole someone's place on the waiting list to buy votes and, in a more abstract way, stole from your relatives their right to interact with state services without a politician getting a piece of the action.

I am reading a book about Ken Doherty back in the day when he was young. His mother was struggling to find a place for the family to live. His mother lobbied the politicians in desperation
He said his mother received a letter from CJ Haughey (before he was Taoiseach) saying "Dear Mr and Mrs Doherty I hope that your family enjoy thier new home".

It is from the same playbook that got susieblue to vote SF.

SusieBlue

sabat wrote: »

So basically he stole someone's place on the waiting list to buy votes and, in a more abstract way, stole from your relatives their right to interact with state services without a politician getting a piece of the action.

Yawn, this is getting boring now. It was a place in a private, paid for facility he was looking for but he couldn’t get a bed as they were all full.
After intervention from the TD, a bed was found which was paid for in full by my family.
No state services involved at all. The same man had tried to kill himself 3 times in the previous two weeks, it was an emergency and A&E kept sending him home.
He was going to die if he didn’t get admitted somewhere. He was failed by the state, if we’re going to blame anyone here.
I’m sure any other parent would do the exact same thing for their child if they had the means to pay for such services privately, even if it meant getting a TD involved.

This is the exact attitude that cost FF and FG votes.

MrMusician18

SusieBlue wrote: »

A lot of people, myself included, refused to vote FG because of the unprofessional and inexcusable actions of the likes of Maria Bailey, Verona Murphy, and Catherine Noone et al.
I cannot in good conscience support a party that condones and protects representatives who conduct themselves in such a matter.
FG handled all those scandals incredibly poorly, and it didn't go unnoticed. People were extremely angry and they weren't listened to, FG tried to bluff their way out of it and now they have to pay the price for that.

They have no one to blame but themselves.

Can someone in good conscience not vote FG because of the above named issues, but has no problem voting SF, despite all their bloody baggage?

There were plenty of alternatives to SF to register your distaste with the status quo. But people just can't help themselves when it comes to populism and there so called simple solutions to complex problems

Ush1

sabat wrote: »

So basically he stole someone's place on the waiting list to buy votes and, in a more abstract way, stole from your relatives their right to interact with state services without a politician getting a piece of the action.

It's kind of ironic that people are lambasting Eoghan Murphys constituents of voting him back in and "not seeing past their noses".

A TD sorting you out a medical procedure or a house is basically the same thing if not worse?

Cupatae

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Maybe it does, but there are many politicians who are hardworking and honest.
But if there were two hypocrites one who was a hypocrite on fraud and the other a hypocrite protecting murderers. Which is worse?

Somehow those hypocrites protecting murderers seemed to be the more palatable choice! By simply using geographical distance and a small bit of distance of history. And the vague statement of 'change'.

Honest and hard-working politicians now that's a statement I thought id never see ðŸ˜

And by popular opinion apparently fraud is worse

FTA69

SusieBlue wrote: »

Its a mixture of both though, I believe the TD in question has one of the highest records of attendance for the Dáil.
He is present on a local level and represents us well on a national level, not like the HR's who just go up to collect their wages.
Meanwhile Mícheal Martin nor Simon Coveny are never to be seen down here, and they haven't exactly done a good job on a national level. No way were either of them getting my vote.

I went to college with Donnchadh and he is sound as a pound, he's a normal working class lad from the southside and genuinely cares about people. He's very popular for a reason and deserved to top the poll.

He was engaging in rudimentary casework the same as every TD does, if you'd have voted for FG or FF absolutely nobody would be questioning your vote here. Pathetic behavious.

mada999

BanditLuke wrote: »

FFG protected the church pedos for years.

an Amen to that.........