What have we come to

Ush1

Cupatae wrote: »

It's actually a talent putting a negative spin on everything ��

Whilst if I had a sick relative I would do anything possible to get them help, do you think honestly it's the sort of thing a TD should be doing?

nkl12xtw5goz70

SusieBlue wrote: »

I believe he is the better option, both locally and nationally, than FF or FG. That is why he got my #1.

Setting parish-pump politics aside for a moment, why are SF the better option nationally? How will its high-tax, anti-business agenda help Ireland?

Furthermore, are you happy that you gave your #1 to a party whose canvassers blast "Ooh, ah, up the Ra" from their campaign vans? Or whose politicians are singing rebel songs while celebrating their electoral victories? What do you think these divisive images will do to the still fragile peace process in the North?

sbsquarepants

Kason Fancy Coal wrote: »

These are not exactly the kinds of headlines you want multinational CEOs reading (in other words, the people who make the investment decisions that provide the jobs that generate the income for the socialists to tax). It also discredits Ireland internationally that a quarter of the electorate are willing to cast votes for a party plagued by its ongoing ties to terrorist atrocities.

Come off it PB - Americans of all people, are not in any position to berate the voting choices of any nation.
Just look at the piece of shít they have in the white house ffs!

riclad

I think part of the reason the vote for sf increased is a lot of young voters,
under 30, do not remember the time when the troubles were going on,
there were bombs going off ,etc in the 80,s.before the peace process happened .
Sinn fein is now being treated like another political party which has policys which are aimed at working class voters.fianna fail and fianna gael thought they could ignore sinn fein since they would get maybe 10 per cent of the votes.

Ush1

FTA69 wrote: »

I went to college with Donnchadh and he is sound as a pound, he's a normal working class lad from the southside and genuinely cares about people. He's very popular for a reason and deserved to top the poll.

He was engaging in rudimentary casework the same as every TD does, if you'd have voted for FG or FF absolutely nobody would be questioning your vote here. Pathetic behavious.

I questioned going from no more FG to SF. This is a surge, it's not like all lifelong SF supporters came out and voted for once.

Ush1

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Come off it PB - Americans of all people, are not in any position to berate the voting choices of any nation.
Just look at the piece of shít they have in the white house ffs!

You can't eat your morals unfortunately.

rossie1977

People in Ireland vote for the representative that best suits them and their constituency and local area. It's why we have seen the likes of Ming Flanagan, Mick Wallace, The Healy-Raes and Michael Lowry elected time and time again in their areas because they are the ones putting in the work.

Like I said previously I can understand why SF got so popular. The cutting of local services outside Dublin to the bone will eventually piss people off, look at France and the yellow shirt protests.

If you take somewhere like here FG closed down the emergency department in Roscommon hospital meaning people now have to travel 50-75 miles to massively overcrowded Galway or Castlebar. A high tech fire station lays empty in my home town so any fire and the crew has to come 12-18 miles away down windy country lanes. The post office was closed and moved to a much smaller area in a shop. There are no occupied gardai stations in any of the nearby villages anymore and crime has risen quite sharply in meantime. Public transportation has been reduced. Roscommon has highest level of suicides in the country outside Limerick city yet massive cuts have taken place in local mental health services.

We have also seen private companies pull out. Ulster Bank no longer serves my home town or places like Ballyhaunis, this despite the huge amount the FF government invested in banking sector.

gormdubhgorm

Cupatae wrote: »

Honest and hard-working politicians now that's a statement I thought id never see ðŸ˜

And by popular opinion apparently fraud is worse

It just shows how important 'optics' are in politics, with a healthy dose of recency bias.

SF just played the optics better at the end of the day. And any mentions of protecting murderers/attitude to crime SCC were kind of brushed off as in 'the past' or 'up there' not in this jurisdiction. Which suited the distant young working class, Republic of Ireland voters.

Better than this was painted as an attack on SF, so SF ironically could play the 'victim' in the eyes of those demographic in the ROI.

LennieB

If only all the candidates had no affiliation to a party, all independents as such. Then we could pick the best people on merit to make up a government, none of this voting for the party no matter who the candidate is - one of who can go on holidays for a week and still top the poll!

FTA69

Kason Fancy Coal wrote: »

Setting parish-pump politics aside for a moment, why are SF the better option nationally? How will its high-tax, anti-business agenda help Ireland?

Furthermore, are you happy that you gave your #1 to a party whose canvassers blast "Ooh, ah, up the Ra" from their campaign vans? Or whose politicians are singing rebel songs while celebrating their electoral victories? What do you think these divisive images will do to the still fragile peace process in the North?

Come Out Ye Black and Tans is a great tune, sure wasn't it number one in the charts for a while and all?

The old Permabear was better craic.

Snickers Man

Earthhorse wrote: »

It's a very naïve vote. Sinn Féin are basically FF lite. No real political convictions. What way is the wind blowing?

FF Nua, as I've long believed.

Wouldn't vote for the feckers in a blind fit and still won't. But the housing system is dysfunctional and no end in sight. If they're serious about making a proper intervention in terms of more supply they could yet get some gratitude from the populace for it.

Of course if all they want to do is sing rebel songs and bang on about a border polll.......they're just Nigel Farage with an Irish accent. Mutatis mutandis.

machaseh

Kason Fancy Coal wrote: »

Setting parish-pump politics aside for a moment, why are SF the better option nationally? How will its high-tax, anti-business agenda help Ireland?

Furthermore, are you happy that you gave your #1 to a party whose canvassers blast "Ooh, ah, up the Ra" from their campaign vans? Or whose politicians are singing rebel songs while celebrating their electoral victories? What do you think these divisive images will do to the still fragile peace process in the North?

I'd fully sing along with them. Come out ye black and tans !

JohnnyFlash

Are SF suggesting raising employer PRSI by 50%?

SusieBlue

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Can someone in good conscience not vote FG because of the above named issues, but has no problem voting SF, despite all their bloody baggage?

There were plenty of alternatives to SF to register your distaste with the status quo. But people just can't help themselves when it comes to populism and there so called simple solutions to complex problems

No party has clean hands. Wasn't it Leo's suggestion that everyone gets a loan of 30k off their parents to get a mortgage?
What's that about simple solutions to complex problems?

MrMusician18

FTA69 wrote: »

I went to college with Donnchadh and he is sound as a pound, he's a normal working class lad from the southside and genuinely cares about people. He's very popular for a reason and deserved to top the poll.

He was engaging in rudimentary casework the same as every TD does, if you'd have voted for FG or FF absolutely nobody would be questioning your vote here. Pathetic behavious.

No one would question it if it was morally consistent. When you cite corruption and scandals as the reason for not voting FG or FF but then cast a vote for SF, you have to question the logic behind that. These are people who supported mayhem and the party people still maintain association with shadier elements, not to mention it's very recent bloody history.

Aside from installing a huge mental block, I just don't understand how those positions can be squared. It's a younger generation that largely voted for them, one that claims to be compassionate - a claim that can safely be discarded. The generation that voted Sinn Fein is really the generation that voted Me Fein.

Cupatae

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It just shows how important 'optics' are in politics, with a healthy dose of recency bias.

SF just played the optics better at the end of the day. And any mentions of protecting murderers/attitude to crime SCC were kind of brushed off as in 'the past' or 'up there' not in this jurisdiction. Which suited the distant young working class, Republic of Ireland voters.

Better than this was painted as an attack on SF, so SF ironically could play the 'victim' in the eyes of those demographic in the ROI.

Or maybe the people bringing up the murders are using them as a stick, rather than actually giving a **** bout the murders , and people got tired or that drum , I think most people in Ireland are fairly intelligent and we're just sick to the teeth of ff and fgs ****e

I don't think anyone actively wanted to vote in murderers, it's Abit much.. but time will tell who s right and who's wrong the real test will be if they get power

hattoncracker

billyhead wrote: »

Sinn Fein topping the polls in many constituencies. I believe in democracy but too vote this crowd in as your number 1

Spoken like someone who isnt affected by the housing crisis.

Might I remind you that the kids turning 18 during the crash are now in their late 20's/early 30's. Some left the country, some stayed and are paying crazy rents with no hope of buying and no stability to have kids. Some are still living in their childhood bedrooms.

They're pissed. And if you didn't see this coming a mile off then you weren't paying attention.

Idbatterim

at election time, could you put up posters, highlighting issues, with no affiliation to a party etc. just public information posters?

Idbatterim

hattoncracker wrote: »

Spoken like someone who isnt affected by the housing crisis.

Might I remind you that the kids turning 18 during the crash are now in their late 20's/early 30's. Some left the country, some stayed and are paying crazy rents with no hope of buying and no stability to have kids.

They're pissed. And if you didn't see this coming a mile off then you weren't paying attention.

NO NO ! But its ok, many are getting rich on paper. An average house in many areas of dublin and you are a paper millionaire! The wealth effect, is so much more important than peoples lives...

SusieBlue

Cupatae wrote: »

Or maybe the people bringing up the murders are using them as a stick, rather than actually giving a **** bout the murders , and people got tired or that drum , I think most people in Ireland are fairly intelligent and we're just sick to the teeth of ff and fgs ****e

I don't think anyone actively wanted to vote in murderers, it's Abit much.. but time will tell who s right and who's wrong the real test will be if they get power

The faux concern and outrage is so transparent. Its just pure and utter scaremongering, I remember similar tactics being used in previous referendums and it didn't wash with the public those times either.

People knew exactly who and what they were voting for and SF still got the most #1 seats.

Snickers Man

Oh well.

At least it will have pissed off Eoghan Harris to the point of apoplexy.
It's an ill wind that blows no-one any good.

Zetor19

But we did nt know what we were voting for. There has some real no hopers after getting elected who were never heard of before one of them were on holidays ffs. The one in Clare can’t even speak properly a complete nobody .

gormdubhgorm

Cupatae wrote: »

Or maybe the people bringing up the murders are using them as a stick, rather than actually giving a **** bout the murders , and people got tired or that drum , I think most people in Ireland are fairly intelligent and we're just sick to the teeth of ff and fgs ****e

I don't think anyone actively wanted to vote in murderers, it's Abit much.. but time will tell who s right and who's wrong the real test will be if they get power

I am not sure about this part though as many of the young working class voters would not have voted before. Denise Mitchell got 80% of the vote in priorswood a working class area in Dublin Bay North for example.
That is phenomenal stuff, really getting the vote out.

Plus how can these younger working class voters be expected to understand such a complex issue as important issue as Brexit? Which FG did well in and SF did nothing in.

nkl12xtw5goz70

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Come off it PB - Americans of all people, are not in any position to berate the voting choices of any nation.

I'm talking about the decision-making process of multinational CEOs.

Ireland was widely perceived as a safe investment for US multinationals: It was a pro-EU, English-speaking developed country with a relatively stable centrist government and low corporate taxes. No other country offered all those advantages. A CEO could sleep at night without worrying about waking up to a revolution or the state confiscation of his business assets. There's a reason why Ireland has been the fastest growing economy in Europe for the last 5 years.

Now we have newly elected left-wing populist TDs dancing around to "Come Out Ye Black and Tans" while foaming at the mouth about capitalism and big business. This is all very damaging to Ireland's image abroad.

Of course, many SF voters are not exactly queuing up to work for Google, and probably couldn't care less if multinationals leave (or don't come to) the country. Sinn Fein doesn't understand or care about international business leaders. But the more it manages to deter investment, the fewer social programmes it will be able to fund, and then the SF base may start to care.

MrMusician18

Cupatae wrote: »

Or maybe the people bringing up the murders are using them as a stick, rather than actually giving a **** bout the murders , and people got tired or that drum , I think most people in Ireland are fairly intelligent and we're just sick to the teeth of ff and fgs ****e

I don't think anyone actively wanted to vote in murderers, it's Abit much.. but time will tell who s right and who's wrong the real test will be if they get power

Yet that's exactly what they've done - and now want to rationalise it. There are no excuses though, we all know the history.

As I've said, there were lots of homes to put your vote if you didn't like FF or FG. But populism is alluring.

Free houses for all!

hattoncracker

Idbatterim wrote: »

NO NO ! But its ok, many are getting rich on paper. An average house in many areas of dublin and you are a paper millionaire! The wealth effect, is so much more important than peoples lives...

Preach!

I'm so pissed off. I never in my life would have voted Sinn Fein, but FF/FG have been making a rod for our future backs by delaying fixing the housing crisis, giving subsidies for commercial building so developers have no incentive to build houses, and a tax break for first time buyers which did nothing only push up the price of houses. They have outsourced the building of social housing to private developers aswell, which is more expensive and a lot slower.

If you bought anything on the google play store last year, you paid more to google than they did in taxes to the state on their billion euro profit.

If you wrote a book on how to mismanage public finances, you couldn't make it any more blatant.

Yurt2

Snickers Man wrote: »

Oh well.

At least it will have pissed off Eoghan Harris to the point of apoplexy.
It's an ill wind that blows no-one any good.

I'd say Eoghan had to be carted off to the psychiatric ward with this set of results.

Ush1

Zetor19 wrote: »

But we did nt know what we were voting for. There has some real no hopers after getting elected who were never heard of before one of them were on holidays ffs. The one in Clare can’t even speak properly a complete nobody .

As has been said, you could have ran a tin of beans with a Sinn Fein badge on it and it would have been elected.

Policies and mandates are at best hazy and irrelevant and at worst naive and divisive.

Snickers Man

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

how can these younger working class voters be expected to understand such a complex issue as important issue as Brexit? Which FG did well in and SF did nothing in.

Wow! I like to think I'm a fairly supercilious and patronising know-all on matters such as strategy and rudimentary economics but that piece of arrogance has taken my breath away!!

Stupid people's votes count the same as clever people's, you know.

But you're right about Brexit: I think Leo's handling of that was the only thing saving his party from a total meltdown.

Ush1

SusieBlue wrote: »

The faux concern and outrage is so transparent. Its just pure and utter scaremongering, I remember similar tactics being used in previous referendums and it didn't wash with the public those times either.

People knew exactly who and what they were voting for and SF still got the most #1 seats.

But you just basically said you voted Sinn Fein because the TD helped your family and you hate FG/FF? None of their policies were mentioned.