What have we come to

Cupatae

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Yet that's exactly what they've done - and now want to rationalise it. There are no excuses though, we all know the history.

As I've said, there were lots of homes to put your vote if you didn't like FF or FG. But populism is alluring.

Free houses for all!

So most of the country are unintelligent track suit wearing Dole murderers , did I miss anything, shout from the roof tops the doom and gloom

Somehow I get the feeling you are being slightly over the top

hattoncracker

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Yet that's exactly what they've done - and now want to rationalise it. There are no excuses though, we all know the history.

As I've said, there were lots of homes to put your vote if you didn't like FF or FG. But populism is alluring.

Free houses for all!

Get a hold of yourself, dude. Jesus.

SusieBlue

Ush1 wrote: »

But you just basically said you voted Sinn Fein because the TD helped your family and you hate FG/FF? None of their policies were mentioned.

And I also said I feel he is a good representative on a national level, a fantastic speaker in the Dáil who worked hard last time around and deserved to retain his seat, but you conveniently left that bit out of your post.

The policies of the 3 main parties were all much of muchness.
We've had almost a hundred years of FF/FG, they too made unachievable promises and they have completely mismanaged our budgets.
For the amount of tax we pay we should have far better public services and they simply haven't delivered, there has been no improvement.
Its time to give someone else an opportunity to make a difference.

mada999

theballz wrote: »

Exactly this. I fall into that fold.

I am 30, the recession came when I finished school. I didn’t go to college, I became an apprentice electrician when their was no work. I was a victim of the recession, I worked for 5 years as a sparks but never qualified due to dodgy companies around the time.

I didn’t like that life so I quit. I went back to college as a mature student at 23, I studied 4 nights a week 6-10pm whilst working 5 days 9-5pm. Bare in mind I don’t come from money, I paid my own fees whilst working full time and paying rent.

Since then, I have gone on to do well. I would be considered “wealthy” by SF. I am now doing an evening masters (paying myself) and working full time. Paying rent. I make about 130k a year. I’m a single man from a very low income family.

It feels like all my hard work was for nothing. I already big tax, I don’t have wealthy parents to help me buy a home. I am single, no partner. I can not afford a house on my own, because I pay such high rent still. I work so hard and this sh*t is just so deflating. I work 60 hours a week.

Again, for what? To have it all taken away from me?

There is a stigma to high earners in this country, everyone assumes they come from wealth. That is not always the case.

Sinn Fein will drive a lot of talent out of this country by increasing the already ridiculous tax rates.

Well surely since you didn't come from money then you would have a slight bit more empathy to other people who also don't come from money and who are struggling ?

and no, I'm not talking about the tracksuit brigade who are career dole recipients. I mean the people who are genuinely working their asses off and still struggling ?

Fair play to you for doing well - but you are not considered wealthy just by SF - you are wealthy compared to most of the population in this country.

You feel all your hard work was for nothing?

Don't worry you wont be taxed more until you hit €140,000 according to SF's manifesto.

Idbatterim

hattoncracker wrote: »

Preach!

I'm so pissed off. I never in my life would have voted Sinn Fein, but FF/FG have been making a rod for our future backs by delaying fixing the housing crisis, giving subsidies for commercial building so developers have no incentive to build houses, and a tax break for first time buyers which did nothing only push up the price of houses. They have outsourced the building of social housing to private developers aswell, which is more expensive and a lot slower.

If you bought anything on the google play store last year, you paid more to google than they did in taxes to the state on their billion euro profit.

If you wrote a book on how to mismanage public finances, you couldn't make it any more blatant.

take a look at this if you want to see why governments love rip off property prices. For all the bull**** on rte, they arent impartial, they purport to represent the peasants, LOL! Start by showing the likes of this then!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL3n59wC8kk

gormdubhgorm

Snickers Man wrote: »

Wow! I like to think I'm a fairly supercilious and patronising know-all on matters such as strategy and rudimentary economics but that piece of arrogance has taken my breath away!!

Stupid people's votes count the same as clever people's, you know.

But you're right about Brexit: I think Leo's handling of that was the only thing saving his party from a total meltdown.

They do unfortunately which was the cause of Brexit, plus Brexit was an extremely complex issue to explain to the ordinary man on the street.

Ironically there are massive similarities to the Conservative leave campaign, and Sinn Fein's GE campaign. Both campaigned on the vague concept of 'change'.

That is what FG was battling against, and particularly the myth the FG and FF are FFG and destroyed the country. But FG saved the country both in the foundation of state (as CnaG) right up the present day - turning the economy around

Cupatae

mada999 wrote: »

Well surely since you didn't come from money then you would have a slight bit more empathy to other people who also don't come from money and who are struggling ?

and no, I'm not talking about the tracksuit brigade who are career dole recipients. I mean the people who are genuinely working their asses off and still struggling ?

Fair play to you for doing well - but you are not considered wealthy just by SF - you are wealthy compared to most of the population in this country.

You feel all your hard work was for nothing?

Don't worry you wont be taxed more until you hit €140,000 according to SF's manifesto.

He LL be fine he can just leave with the rest of the mass Exodus that's gonna happen , going by the comments the asian countries are crying out for people like that

Ush1

SusieBlue wrote: »

And I also said I feel he is a good representative on a national level, a fantastic speaker in the Dáil who worked hard last time around and deserved to retain his seat, but you conveniently left that bit out of your post.

The policies of the 3 main parties were all much of muchness.
We've had almost a hundred years of FF/FG, they too made unachievable promises and they have completely mismanaged our budgets.
For the amount of tax we pay we should have far better public services and they simply haven't delivered, there has been no improvement.
Its time to give someone else an opportunity to make a difference.

No they weren't(and if they were if would make it even stranger). Lets take pensions, Sinn Fein claimed that "demographics" will take care of that. Can you show where FG or FF are claiming the same?

The rest of your post is backing up what I said. It was a protest vote. People just need to own that.

jayzee

Who will they support now as they have previously supported Labour?

hattoncracker

Ush1 wrote: »

No they weren't. Lets take pensions, Sinn Fein claimed that "demographics" will take care of that. Can you show where FG or FF are claiming the same?

The rest of your post is backing up what I said. It was a protest vote. People just need to own that.

In its hole was it a protest vote. Mary Lou has been planning for this since she took up leadership.

gormdubhgorm

jayzee wrote: »

Who will they support now as they have previously supported Labour?

Great point ideologically wise, SF would be the closest.

Idbatterim

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They do unfortunately which was the cause of Brexit, plus Brexit was an extremely complex issue to explain to the ordinary man on the street.

Ironically there are massive similarities to the Conservative leave campaign, and Sinn Fein's GE campaign. Both campaigned on the vague concept of 'change'.

That is what FG was battling against, and particularly the myth the FG and FF are FFG and destroyed the country. But FG saved the country both in the foundation of state (as CnaG) right up the present day - turning the economy around

maybe if the genius establishment, listened to genuine concern of the moderate masses, instead of sticking their fingers in their ears. Everyones life could be a lot easier :rolleyes:

MrMusician18

Cupatae wrote: »

So most of the country are unintelligent track suit wearing Dole murderers , did I miss anything, shout from the roof tops the doom and gloom

Somehow I get the feeling you are being slightly over the top

Jaysus, put words into my mouth. SF won 25% of the vote, not a majority. They should be the largest party but they won't be because they didn't run enough candidates.

And those that did vote for them either didn't care about their history, or were able to box it off mentally as irrelevant. It certainly wasn't because voters didn't know.

SusieBlue

Ush1 wrote: »

No they weren't(and if they were if would make it even stranger). Lets take pensions, Sinn Fein claimed that "demographics" will take care of that. Can you show where FG or FF are claiming the same?

The rest of your post is backing up what I said. It was a protest vote. People just need to own that.

The point I was making was that they were ALL making unrealistic, unachievable promises on one point or another. That is what they do. Not one party had a perfectly achievable manifesto, not just SF.

Your insistence of dismissing this as a protest vote is very telling. People knew exactly who and what they were voting for, they wanted a change, and SF was the only viable alternative to FF/FG.

If it was simply a protest vote, why didn't people protest and vote Social Democrats, or Greens, or Labour in their droves? Why won't you accept that a lot of people simply want to see SF in government?

gormdubhgorm

Idbatterim wrote: »

maybe if the genius establishment, listened to genuine concern of the moderate masses, instead of sticking their fingers in their ears. Everyones life could be a lot easier :rolleyes:

The problem is 50% of the moderate masses voted FF/FG/Labour, all who said they would not go into government with SF before the election.
That is the strongest mandate.

The Golden Miller

So nearly 100 years after FF broke away from SF and left them as a rump party, they are finally back at the forefront of the Irish political landscape.

Ush1

hattoncracker wrote: »

In its hole was it a protest vote. Mary Lou has been planning for this since she took up leadership.

What's Mary Lou got to do with the price of fish when voters are asked they say FG/FF bad, SF good with no mention of policies or how they can see SF will fix these issues.

Seems more a case of give someone else a go?

James Brown

Last election we voted for chaos, got it wrong. This election we got it wronger... Get to f***.

Any unbiased person with an interest in healthy democracy should take solace in the fact that we are free from one of the big two always being a certainty despite what they are.

endacl

I see sheep wrote: »

What's the point of a 'thriving economy' when most people can't afford to buy a house.

Keep it 'thriving' for the top 10% when every else gets screwed.

This is why SF won .. don't you get it?

Apt username.

Jinglejangle69

SusieBlue wrote: »

The point I was making was that they were ALL making unrealistic, unachievable promises on one point or another. That is what they do. Not one party had a perfectly achievable manifesto, not just SF.

Your insistence of dismissing this as a protest vote is very telling. People knew exactly who and what they were voting for, they wanted a change, and SF was the only viable alternative to FF/FG.

If it was simply a protest vote, why didn't people protest and vote Social Democrats, or Greens, or Labour in their droves? Why won't you accept that a lot of people simply want to see SF in government?

They want a change from the lies of FFG so vote in SF who you claim also lies to them??

Zetor19

How much is the dole these days ? Let’s face it we will all be on it soon enough with the scumbags in charge and how much are Celtic jerseys and a pack of cigs? May as well fit in with the scum on dole day. Also what time do the bookies open at, that seems to be a favourite pastime of a scumbag. Try and top up the dole.

Edgware

No. 2s from an eliminated S.F. candidate in Dublin Rathdown were enough to get two F.G.s elected.
Great to see such generosity across the political divide

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The problem is 50% of the moderate masses voted FF/FG/Labour, all who said they would not go into government with SF before the election.
That is the strongest mandate.

But Micheal really really wants to be king of the hill.
Nothing moderate about a party over seeing worsening crises for several years IMO.
It would be very undemocratic for these entities not to be willing to work with arguably the most popular party in the country.

SusieBlue

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

They want a change from the lies of FFG so vote in SF who you claim also lies to them??

If you could stop putting words into my mouth, that would be fab.
I said all 3 manifestos were imperfect and all had aspects that were unachievable.

MrMusician18

Edgware wrote: »

No. 2s from an eliminated S.F. candidate in Dublin Rathdown were enough to get two F.G.s elected.
Great to see such generosity across the political divide

Bizarre, but is anything really surprising anymore?

Jinglejangle69

SusieBlue wrote: »

If you could stop putting words into my mouth, that would be fab.
I said all 3 manifestos were imperfect and all had aspects that were unachievable.

So they all told lies basically?

Edgware

SusieBlue wrote: »

The point I was making was that they were ALL making unrealistic, unachievable promises on one point or another. That is what they do. Not one party had a perfectly achievable manifesto, not just SF.

Your insistence of dismissing this as a protest vote is very telling. People knew exactly who and what they were voting for, they wanted a change, and SF was the only viable alternative to FF/FG.

If it was simply a protest vote, why didn't people protest and vote Social Democrats, or Greens, or Labour in their droves? Why won't you accept that a lot of people simply want to see SF in government?

Correct.
People want services especially in a "booming" economy. 17 billion health budget, where does it go?
Down the line when a border poll is held it will be easier to attract support from the North if it can be shown that the Republic has excellent public services.

SusieBlue

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

So they all told lies basically?

Sorry, I'm failing to see what your point is here?
All 3 manifestos have some aspect or another that us unrealistic, I said this in response to someone moaning about the SF one. None of them were perfect.
I never mentioned the word lying, that was you.

I have some magic beans I can sell to you if you honestly believe that any of the maniestos from any of the parties were 100% financially accurate and achievable, because they weren't.

Idbatterim

Zetor19 wrote: »

How much is the dole these days ? Let’s face it we will all be on it soon enough with the scumbags in charge and how much are Celtic jerseys and a pack of cigs? May as well fit in with the scum on dole day. Also what time do the bookies open at, that seems to be a favourite pastime of a scumbag. Try and top up the dole.

FFG have increased dole up to E203 a week. 300,000,000 on the well deserved Xmas bonus. that delivered by the party that "represents the early rises"

gormdubhgorm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

But Micheal really really wants to be king of the hill.
Nothing moderate about a party over seeing worsening crises for several years IMO.
It would be very undemocratic for these entities not to be willing to work with arguably the most popular party in the country.

Worsening crisis?
- full employment, improved infrastructure and a deal on Brexit