What have we come to

James Brown

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Like FG are STILL blaming FF for leaving a mess?

FG: 'FF are the worst!

FG lose seats.

FG: 'Hey FF, did you get your hair done? You look good'.

v638sg7k1a92bx

rossie1977 wrote: »

When big US corporations enter Ireland do they build motorways, roads, bridges, airports, shipping ports to access their buildings? Do they build universities to educate the Irish workforce?

Of course not. They expect those things to be in place before setting up and those to be paid for by someone else.

Corporations also expect big grants to start here, tax breaks as well as lowest corporate tax rates in the developed world.

They pay more taxes than all the other businesses combined.

B0jangles

B0jangles wrote: »

Of course it's not unexplainable, you just don't like the explanation. The electorate as a whole is under increasing pressure, and has realised that endlessly cycling between FF and FG is not going to do anything to relieve that pressure. Voting FG back in would be a vote for the more of the same.

It seems their policies are favorable to a few posters here on boards, but for a very significant proportion of the electorate, they obviously aren't.

FG massively improved the country. We almost have full employment. Anybody that wants a job can get a job. Wages are increasing. Taxes have been cut and welfare increased. (admittedly, not by much in either case), HTB scheme has helped many to get on the property ladder. Done exceptionally well during the brexit fiasco.
House prices are now leveling off.
Still a lot of work to be done of course, but great progress made.

History will look back fondly at this govt.

Hopefully we won't be left begging for them to clean up another mess in a few years.

thecomedian

rossie1977 wrote: »

When big US corporations enter Ireland do they build motorways, roads, bridges, airports, shipping ports to access their buildings? Do they build universities to educate the Irish workforce?

Of course not. They expect those things to be in place before setting up and those to be paid for by someone else.

Corporations also expect big grants to start here, tax breaks as well as lowest corporate tax rates in the developed world.

Without these companies we would be fecked!

Foxtrol

FrancieBrady wrote: »

hilarious.

Tell us oh wise one how you negotiate with people who will renege on agreement?

Just how the EU and the Irish government successfully dealt with Britain during the Brexit negotiations, by staying at the table until a deal is done, like adults.

And you are arrogantly proclaiming that only FG have the smarts to negotiate for us.

There is no party more seasoned in difficult negotiations than SF.

There is no party more seasoned than SF at throwing political tantrums and then sitting on their hands rather than advancing anything.

The difference this time will be that they won't be able to rely on the British government to fill in for them, they will be playing with much larger nations and entities that will just move on rather than wait around for them.

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

FG massively improved the country. We almost have full employment. Anybody that wants a job can get a job. Wages are increasing. Taxes have been cut and welfare increased. (admittedly, not by much in either case), HTB scheme has helped many to get on the property ladder. Done exceptionally well during the brexit fiasco.
House prices are now leveling off.
Still a lot of work to be done of course, but great progress made.

History will look back fondly at this govt.

Hopefully we won't be left begging for them to clean up another mess in a few years.

Nice one sided fairy tale.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

..or hold a state memorial for forces that butchered us and try to stop us being what we are today...independent.


*We can keep this up for as long as you want.

Not true it was a memorial proposed to remember all of those people involved in the history of this sate to encourage inclusiveness. Unfortunately with the likes of your mindset - the two Irish RIC men killed in Solohedbeg 1919 - one a fluent Irish speaker from Mayo, and the other a fella from Cork have being airbrushed out of history. Or James Kent (Eamon Ceannt's father) who was a high up RIC man. Ironically all these RIC mentioned could be classed as 'working class' just lads doing thier job and earning a living.

It is only the start of the airbrushing of history - SF have already begun it with the troubles in this very election. Giving a half assed apology in the hope that it would go away. But it will not be noticed by those in the working class youth vote who voted for SF in the election in the ROI. Because most seem more interested in fanciful promises of goodie bags and houses. 'Change' and a rewriting of history. :rolleyes:

Blaze420

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Nice one sided fairy tale.

What’s he wrong about then? Go on

olestoepoke

[Deleted User] wrote: »

FG massively improved the country. We almost have full employment. Anybody that wants a job can get a job. Wages are increasing. Taxes have been cut and welfare increased. (admittedly, not by much in either case), HTB scheme has helped many to get on the property ladder. Done exceptionally well during the brexit fiasco.
House prices are now leveling off.
Still a lot of work to be done of course, but great progress made.

History will look back fondly at this govt.

Hopefully we won't be left begging for them to clean up another mess in a few years.

I dont buy into this view at all. Much like people saying Clinton was a fantastic president. Where they really any good or opportunistic? Timing was on their side. To say our economic recovery was because of them is not entirely true. The whole of Europe recovered and there was the matter of that large loan we got to get us going again.

SusieBlue

Foxtrol wrote: »

If it wasn't a protest vote then where was the SF support in the local and european elections? If it was a true groundswell of support, how did SF not feel it in advance and run more candidates? If SF thought they'd be in contention for all the seats they have won, why was one of their candidates on holiday in the run up to the election?

It is too early to say it was definitely a protest vote but there are signs that point to it looking that way and it is just a presumptuous to claim that it wasn't a protest vote.

That’s not what I was replying to. I was replying to a point that people didn’t have a clue what they were even voting for and wanted to just give the 2 fingers to the establishment.
This isn’t the case, it was even said on RTE yesterday that this election has had one of the most well informed electorates to date.
People knew what they were voting for.
Whether it was a protest vote is another matter entirely, but dismissing the surge in SF popularity as ‘idiots who don’t know any better’ is the height of arrogance and is highly insulting.

SusieBlue

Blaze420 wrote: »

What’s he wrong about then? Go on

Do you have anything to offer to the discussion besides goading and sneering at people?

B0jangles

Deleted User wrote: »

FG massively improved the country. We almost have full employment. Anybody that wants a job can get a job. Wages are increasing. Taxes have been cut and welfare increased. (admittedly, not by much in either case), HTB scheme has helped many to get on the property ladder. Done exceptionally well during the brexit fiasco.
House prices are now leveling off.
Still a lot of work to be done of course, but great progress made.

History will look back fondly at this govt.

Hopefully we won't be left begging for them to clean up another mess in a few years.

Why are so many people finding it impossible to ever manage to buy a house? To afford childcare? To access healthcare?


These are people with solid careers, good professional qualifications, these are hardworking families with two incomes - but yeah; it's so much easier to handwave all these people as lifelong dolers looking for a free 'foreva home'.

Cupatae

B0jangles wrote: »

How is that a protest vote?

FG had ample time to make good on their promises, and they've failed to do so in a great many ways. Where is the sense in believing that this time around they'll totally do better?

Sinn Fein have made various pledges and promises; maybe it's time to see if they are any better at keeping to them than FG/FF are.

It's the classic reasoning protect the rich protect the corporate , throw the poor a bone now and again and a few empty promises to keep em strung along... Rinse and repeat

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Like FG are STILL blaming FF for leaving a mess?

Well FG fixed FF's mess they got full employment and Brexit done. They were ready to move on the more populist stuff after that. And do it sensibly.
What did SF do lately? Out of government in Stormont for three years.
Did not even consider going into WM to stop Brexit or change the course of history.

The party of change mo thóin. Most of the time they sit on thier hands for the big calls. The only time SF are quick to appear is at Republican ceremonies / funerals.
Or to defend those involved in Republican related murders.

FrancieBrady

Foxtrol wrote: »

Just how the EU and the Irish government successfully dealt with Britain during the Brexit negotiations, by staying at the table until a deal is done, like adults.

The DUP walked away...nobody else did. Get a grip here. Your comparison isn't working.

There is no party more seasoned than SF at throwing political tantrums and then sitting on their hands rather than advancing anything.

The difference this time will be that they won't be able to rely on the British government to fill in for them, they will be playing with much larger nations and entities that will just move on rather than wait around for them.

Sometime when you calm down a bit, have a look at what has been achieved for the people of northern Ireland and who the people reward again and again as the biggest party, for that.

Blaze420

SusieBlue wrote: »

Do you have anything to offer to the discussion besides goading and sneering at people?

It’s called a discussion forum and people making statements are fair game to be questioned on them - what part of that don’t you understand?

MrMusician18

SusieBlue wrote: »

That’s not what I was replying to. I was replying to a point that people didn’t have a clue what they were even voting for and wanted to just give the 2 fingers to the establishment.
This isn’t the case, it was even said on RTE yesterday that this election has had one of the most well informed electorates to date.
People knew what they were voting for.
Whether it was a protest vote is another matter entirely, but dismissing the surge in SF popularity as ‘idiots who don’t know any better’ is the height of arrogance and is highly insulting.

Indeed, can't argue with that point. People voting SF know exactly who they were voting for.

Good Republicans, the lot of 'em.

Foxtrol

SusieBlue wrote: »

That’s not what I was replying to. I was replying to a point that people didn’t have a clue what they were even voting for and wanted to just give the 2 fingers to the establishment.
This isn’t the case, it was even said on RTE yesterday that this election has had one of the most well informed electorates to date.
People knew what they were voting for.
Whether it was a protest vote is another matter entirely, but dismissing the surge in SF popularity as ‘idiots who don’t know any better’ is the height of arrogance and is highly insulting.

Informed doesn't necessarily mean knowing what you are voting for, it could be as much what you are voting against.

Knowing that FG/FF were offering mostly more of the same whereas SF offered more 'change' is more informed than 'my parents voted for FF so I'm voting for FF', it doesn't mean they have thought through the impact to FDI of many SF polices. In Ireland we're coming from a very low base.

FG & FF didn't help matter by focusing more on SF's history rather than the potential economic issues of their policies.

endainoz

Foxtrol wrote: »

Informed doesn't necessarily mean knowing what you are voting for, it could be as much what you are voting against.

Knowing that FG/FF were offering mostly more of the same whereas SF offered more 'change' is more informed than 'my parents voted for FF so I'm voting for FF', it doesn't mean they have thought through the impact to FDI of many SF polices. In Ireland we're coming from a very low base.

FG & FF didn't help matter by focusing more on SF's history rather than the potential economic issues of their policies.

It could have been easier for SF to go and attack FFs or FGs dodgy history but they didn't and it was the smart move.

Cupatae

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Indeed, can't argue with that point. People voting SF know exactly who they were voting for.

Good Republicans, the lot of 'em.

One could argue they knew exactly what they d be voting for with ff and fg aswell and decided not to.

gormdubhgorm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Maybe the electorate have more pressing current concerns?
We owe SF and others of course a great deal of thanks for the GFA. Thankfully dissidents like yourself are few and far between. Let it go and move on with your life.

Rubbish I am sorry Matt. At least 50% of the electorate voted for parties that stated they would not go into coalition with SF. To use a favourite SF phrase that is the 'mandate'.

SF fought a war for 30 years that was needless, and just ending up sharing power and working with the Unionists.

SF could have got behind the Sunningdale power sharing agreement in 1973 and helped to get it through. But they did not.

Seamus Mallon called the GFA - Sunningdale for slow learners.

James Brown

I see FF/FG and the media have lost interest in Mrs. Quinn and her grief. 4 stories on the front page one day last week. Not a peep this week.
I hope ML contacts her over the coming weeks.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Rubbish I am sorry Matt at least 50% of the electorate voted for parties - that stated they would not go into coalition with SF. To use a favourite SF phrase that is the 'mandate'. SF fought a war for 30 years that was needless and just ending up sharing power and working with the Unionists.

SF could have got behind the Sunningdale power sharing agreement in 1973 and helped to get it through. But they did not.

Seamus Mallon called the GFA - Sunningdale for slow learners.

It's true they helped usher in an end to the troubles. Whether you feel they should be thanked or not is your own business.
You realise they wouldn't be allowed share power with Unionists, but for the fighting?
As I say your dissident view is in the minority thankfully.

Foxtrol

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The DUP walked away...nobody else did. Get a grip here. Your comparison isn't working.

DUP walked away from the deal and SF refused to renegotiate.

If FG and the EU had the same response to Britain walking away from agreements multiple times there'd have been a crash out Brexit.

Sometime when you calm down a bit, have a look at what has been achieved for the people of northern Ireland and who the people reward again and again as the biggest party, for that.

What did they achieve during 2 years sitting on their arses because they were acting like children and wouldn't renegotiate?

So now being continuously returned by an electorate is a reward for doing a good job? I presume you also feel FFFG being the largest parties in the state for decades was due to them being 'rewarded' for their performance, rather than any other factors :rolleyes:

newly appointed TD in Wexford shouting 'up the ra' in his celebration speech

classy. this is actually what people have voted for

gormdubhgorm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I see FF/FG and the media have lost interest in Mrs. Quinn and her grief. 4 stories on the front page one day last week. Not a peep this week.
I hope ML contacts her over the coming weeks.

Plenty of mentions on the radio I heard. But obviously free houses and health are more important to the selfish working class youth - than justice?

If SF had any balls they would have turned in the murderers of Paul Quinn years ago.
But no for all the talk of change - there is no real change in the duplicitous power behind SF - north and south.

Mad_maxx

olestoepoke wrote: »

I dont buy into this view at all. Much like people saying Clinton was a fantastic president. Where they really any good or opportunistic? Timing was on their side. To say our economic recovery was because of them is not entirely true. The whole of Europe recovered and there was the matter of that large loan we got to get us going again.

Compared to our level of growth, Most of Europe bar Germany has crawled at a snails pace since 2013

Blazer

bubblypop wrote: »

newly appointed TD in Wexford shouting 'up the ra' in his celebration speech

classy. this is actually what people have voted for

****in tosser.Just appealing to the stupid and bigots.

Mad_maxx

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The DUP walked away...nobody else did. Get a grip here. Your comparison isn't working.




Sometime when you calm down a bit, have a look at what has been achieved for the people of northern Ireland and who the people reward again and again as the biggest party, for that.

No economic competency is required in the North, both communities vote on one single issue every election

The national question

It's an abnormal place

Eric Cartman

Blazer wrote: »

****in tossed. Just appealing to the stupid and bigots.

+1 , the left roundly celebrating 'the rejection of racism' in the polls, Atleast justin barret is transparant, SF hasn't thrown off those shackles as much as the army council instructed MLM to say that they have.

"Ireland for the irish" is a NP slogan and a SF core belief.