What have we come to

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

She would have to die be a martyr....

I am sure it is something at least a few SF voters could arrange?

Did she not claim she died on that swing, as part of the claim?

lawrencesummers

bubblypop wrote: »

ok, enlighten me?

That would take years.

Doctor Jimbob

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It's telling that you portray the British government as a neutral party in the conflict and seem to think we should be electing a government based on who the British will like more.

no its not
do you see the british government singing anti-irish songs when they are elected?

we need to work together now, do you not believe we do?

TBH I find it amusing that the SF supporters are so aghast at the Maria Bailey affair..

FrancieBrady

bubblypop wrote: »

While I'm sure the British government were happy to negotiate, back in the day, with every party they could, in order to stop the violence, I'm pretty sure that an Irish government full of people that are saying 'Up the Ra' & signing rebel songs are not going to be the British Governments choice of people to deal with

We need to deal with the British Government, people in the Irish government siging 'oh ah up the ra' is getting us nowhere

Put on airs and graces you mean? Pretend to be something they are not?

I kinda accepted that we'd have to listen to this outrage everytime a Shinner sang a song or mentioned the RA when I voted for them and if they got into government.
I am gonna largely ignore the outrage tbh...but I will make you a promise, if I see the RA back on maneuvers up here on the border I'll give you a heads up.

RandomName2

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

seem to think we should be electing a government based on who the British will like more.

Not being smart but yes, you do tend to think about how your trade partners, allies, and neighbors think about the political parties in your country during elections. It should never be the most significant aspect in an election, but you'd have to be as thick as a brick for it not to factor into your calculation.

Boris Johnson's good relationship with Trump was seen as an asset in the general election there, while his poorer relations with Europe was a slight negative. However, he was seen as being a much stronger negotiator than Theresa May in relation to Europe.

The only leader I can remember Varadkar getting on with was Justin Trudeau, which is not a good mark for Varadkar. He did have allies in the EPP though. Sinn Fein has no connection with anybody I think. It's isolationist, and has ties to organisations our allies (such as France, Spain, the US) would find more than a little questionable. It's block in the EU (GUE/NGL) is one of the smallest .

Cupatae

tayto lover wrote: »

Who is he referring to as “they”?

Infairness it was vaild and fair play to those that fought for us, but those days are where they should be in the past , we should be aiming to move forward not backwards

The Golden Miller

RandomName2 wrote: »

Well that's really the crux of the matter isn't it? Do you consider murder, torture, and bombing legitimate means to an end? I don't. Martin Luther King could have become a guerrilla and lynched white people to get some satisfaction. He didn't. Ghandi could have got his followers to plant bombs and terrorize large populations of people in sectarian attacks. He didn't. Seamus Mallen could have made himself feel like a big guy by putting on a balaclava and pulling the fingernails out of someone accused of being an informer in a dimly lit garage. He didn't.

Britain did though.

You can write your own history to twist it anyway you want. All sides lost all sight of what they were fighting for by the end. Then an internationally binding agreement was reached. Yet Sinn Fein are the only one's still leveled with criticism over the Troubles, by sections of society with vested interests and ulterior motives who generally couldn't care less about who lost their lives in the conflict. Well until the victims can be used for point scoring.

RandomName2

Odhinn wrote: »

Yes, in certain circumstances

Instead he was a "useful idiot" of the British regime.

I don't think we have anything left to say to one another.

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Britain did though.

You can write your own history to twist it anyway you want. All sides lost all sight of what they were fighting for by the end. Then an internationally binding agreement was reached. Yet Sinn Fein are the only one's still leveled with criticism over the Troubles, by sections of society with vested interests and ulterior motives who generally couldn't care less about who lost their lives in the conflict. Well until the victims can be used for point scoring.

Would you vote for a British party here (not counting Sinn Fein)? Would you vote for the DUP, TUV, etc.? If Johnny Adair ran for office here would it not be legitimate to bring up his past? If a ex-B Special parliamentary group emerged, would that be grand? Are Sinn Fein the only ones that are targeted over the Troubles? On your bike.

gormdubhgorm

anewme wrote: »

Quick... Ring the Guards.

Pamela Landy wrote: »

Mark Ward, elected in Dublin mid west has signed off this Facebook updates with TAL and an Irish flag

Formally homeless (a new novelty for a SF TD - beats the usual jail story)

Working class - Clondalkin check

Tattoos - check

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Ward_(politician)

Nothing stereotypical about this SF candidate whatsoever.... :rolleyes:

lawrencesummers

lawrencesummers wrote: »

That would take years.

oh go for it, im here

Odhinn

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Formally homeless (a new novelty for a SF TD - beats the usual jail story)

Working class - Clondalkin check

Tattoos - check

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Ward_(politician)

Nothing stereotypical about this SF candidate whatsoever.... :rolleyes:

I admire your honesty in not hiding your sneer at all.

jam_mac_jam

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Formally homeless (a new novelty for a SF TD - beats the usual jail story)

Working class - Clondalkin check

Tattoos - check

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Ward_(politician)

Nothing stereotypical about this SF candidate whatsoever.... :rolleyes:

What's wrong with the working class?

r3nu4l

I'm amazed at the number of Sinn Féin supporters in this thread who are asking everyone to forget about the troubles because it's 'in the past'. The RIC and the Black and Tans are way furthert back in the past and Sinn Féin won't let anyone forget about that.

Forget about the people who just over thirty years ago were murdering children and who killed more Catholics than any of the Loyalist groups ever murdered but don't ever forget similar actions by people over one hundred years ago? Hypocracy, thy name is Sinn Féin!

gormdubhgorm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

What's wrong with the working class?

What other majority demographic would vote SF?

They need people that can be easily manipulated, and crucially young.

Then groom them for votes.

Preferably never voted before.

Most likely, not very well educated.

Foxtrol

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You think SF have never had negotiations with the British before? Dear me.

I think the British are adult enough to know SF's past and accept it. Pity some here weren't as well.

I don't think I've ever seen a more blatant strawman. Several of responses to you specifically mentioned SF negotiations that involved the British.

You were outraged that I gave credit to FG for Brexit negotiations (or you got stuck on capslock) but where happy to give Mary Lou, Eoin O Broin, Pearse Doherty, and the rest of SF in the republic credit for peace process negotiations.

Seems to be standard practice, if you're losing the argument distract by making up another. The scrutiny that comes with government is going to kill you.

pjohnson

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

What's wrong with the working class?

They shouldnt be allowed vote unless they own their own house.

These common folk ruining our elections.

Foxtrol

pjohnson wrote: »

"Hounding they gave Maria Bailey" so shes a brave FG martyr now :pac:

Just a cautionary tale for those who are already crying about the media focus on elected TDs that can't even make it a day before doing something idiotic.

pjohnson

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

What other majority demographic would vote SF?

They need people that can be easily manipulated, and crucially young.

Then groom them for votes.

Preferably never voted before.

Most likely, not very well educated.

Just how out of touch can someone be :pac:

jam_mac_jam

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

What other majority demographic would vote SF?

They need people that can be easily manipulated, and crucially young. To be groomed for votes. Preferably never voted before. Most likely, not very well educated.

Plenty of other demographic voted SF. Plenty of working class people are educated. The idea that all working class people are stupid is also fairly pathetic.

Young people of all demographics voted SF because of housing. The main parties can dismiss them as young or stupid or address the issues that have us in this mess.

Have a look at the Irish times poll from a week ago. Plenty of abc1 preferences were SF.

Ush1

https://twitter.com/RMcGreevy1301/status/1226849060155465728?s=19

Higgins5473

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The ones who shot, bombed, and tortured people from this country?

I'd say the little lad is red raw at this stage hammering away at early years maria bailey posters. It's all over Seán Ó Flash.

pjohnson

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Plenty of other demographic voted SF. Plenty of working class people are educated. The idea that all working class people are stupid is also fairly pathetic.

Young people of all demographics voted SF because of housing. The main parties can dismiss them as young or stupid or address the issues that have us in this mess.

Have a look at the Irish times poll from a week ago. Plenty of abc1 preferences were SF.

Its actually tragic how out of reality they can STILL be even after the results :pac:

lawrencesummers

r3nu4l wrote: »

I'm amazed at the number of Sinn Féin supporters in this thread who are asking everyone to forget about the troubles because it's 'in the past'. The RIC and the Black and Tans are way furthert back in the past and Sinn Féin won't let anyone forget about that.

Forget about the people who just over thirty years ago were murdering children and who killed more Catholics than any of the Loyalist groups ever murdered but don't ever forget similar actions by people over one hundred years ago? Hypocracy, thy name is Sinn Féin!

Your muddling together people’s desire for political change by electing the only option outside of FFG with people being supporters of the IRA. They don’t go hand in hand. The electorate of Ireland are intelligent well educated people who wanted change on a number of serious issues.

Tell me this.
Had there been a fourth party outside of FF /FG / SF with numerous candidates and a manifesto that mentioned the major issues would they have done well?

If SF Get in and have a bad record in Power do you think they will get the same support
In the next election?

perrito caliente

RandomName2 wrote: »

Ghandi could have got his followers to plant bombs and terrorize large populations of people in sectarian attacks. He didn't.

Certainly in Ghandi's case, good arguments have been put forth that he was too much of an appeaser. Strikers, trade unionists, and Indian nationalists were being shot dead on the street, as well as rounded up and tortured by British forces, and this dude was swanning around doing a whole lot of nothing. Be careful who you idealise.

FrancieBrady

Foxtrol wrote: »

I don't think I've ever seen a more blatant strawman. Several of responses to you specifically mentioned SF negotiations that involved the British.

You were outraged that I gave credit to FG for Brexit negotiations (or you got stuck on capslock) but where happy to give Mary Lou, Eoin O Broin, Pearse Doherty, and the rest of SF in the republic credit for peace process negotiations.

Seems to be standard practice, if you're losing the argument distract by making up another. The scrutiny that comes with government is going to kill you.

Why are you trying to link the two?

The point was about their 'ability to negotiate'. They clearly have the ability if you look at the last 20 years or more and what has been achieved.
That's if you are in the mood to give them any credit at all, which you don't appear to want to do.

So worry yourself away.

gormdubhgorm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Plenty of other demographic voted SF. Plenty of working class people are educated. The idea that all working class people are stupid is also fairly pathetic.

Young people of all demographics voted SF because of housing. The main parties can dismiss them as young or stupid or address the issues that have us in this mess.

I never said stupid I said not very well educated. Big difference. Hence why Brexit did not register etc.

If is true that young people of all demographics voted SF because of housing - more fool them. They have being duped by populace promises of change.

I think many have voted the opposite of what FF asked in thier pomp -

Foxtrol

Ush1 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RMcGreevy1301/status/1226849060155465728?s=19

Not too surprised as the SF manifesto was completely populist and tried to offer everything to everyone (outside of the very high earners). On taxes they offered the end of the property tax and USC for a decent chunk of people.

Ireland doesn't really have a true 'left' party, they have parties that offer everything for free but claim you don't have to pay for it in taxes unless you're extremely wealthy.

jam_mac_jam

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I never said stupid I said not very well educated. Big difference. Hence why Brexit did not register etc.

If is true that young people of all demographics voted SF because of housing - more fool them. They have being duped by populace promises of change.

I think many have voted the opposite of what FF asked in thier pomp -

Fair enough. You didn't say stupid. There are plenty of educated people who voted for them though. You were sneering at working class people as they're the only people that voted SF.

They weren't.

gormdubhgorm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Fair enough. You didn't say stupid. There are plenty of educated people who voted for them though. You were sneering at working class people as they're the only people that voted SF.

They weren't.

The majority were. For example in Dublin Bay North - Denise Mitchell got an 80% vote in the working class area of priorswood. You can be damn sure she did not get much votes in Sutton/Howth.