What have we come to

gormdubhgorm

flazio wrote: »

And I'm sure there were decent family men and women in lower ranks of the National Socialist German Workers' Party. We still wouldn't commemorate the Nazis.

Irish history is much more complex than that as many a SF supporter has pointed out on this thread.

But SF only want to spin their agenda.

For example Kevin Barry who I assume many a SF supporter has sung about after a few jars. Much is made of his youth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Barry

"a lad of eighteen summers"

But the fella that he shot was younger



Private Harold Washington aged 15 nearly 16.

Cupatae

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is called inclusiveness and reconciliation, people do not seem to get that.

Also the commemoration was not just about the tans - it was the RIC as a whole throughout thier history in Ireland. Many ordinary decent Irishmen, some fluent Irish speakers, more Irish than you or me.

That is the real irony.

Eamon Ceant's father was in the RIC for example.

But I never hear a shinner mention that in the protests?

Oh for sure but it just ends up in circles when one side trys to one up the other , there's hypocracy everywhere if you look hard enough , it doesn't achieve anything.

GreenandRed

flazio wrote: »

And I'm sure there were decent family men and women in lower ranks of the National Socialist German Workers' Party. We still wouldn't commemorate the Nazis.

They wouldn't be great Gaeilgoirs.

GreenandRed

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Irish history is much more complex than that as many a SF supporter has pointed out on this thread.

But SF only want to spin their agenda.

For example Kevin Barry who I assume many a SF supporter has sung about after a few jars. Much is made of his youth.

"a lad of eighteen summers"

But the fella that he shot was younger



Private Harold Washington aged 15 nearly 16.

and????

Pretzill

There's a lot of people taking this swing towards Sinn Fein very seriously - but I would say for every one of them, there are at least two who will rhu the day they scribbled Number 1 beside SF without even knowing what are who they were voting for.

There is no disputing we need change. But this isn't change, this could be the worst thing that has happened in decades, and it's not that it annoys me, because I would never vote FFG, it annoys me because there is so much ignorance behind this. It's a protest vote - worrying times.

Guy:Incognito

The Golden Miller wrote: »

People voted for FG and FF on the sole issue that they wouldn't go into government with SF? Some mandate alright

I bet if theyd campaigned saying how each of them would love to form a government with SF then afterwards did a u turn then SF supporters would be up in arms. But MM softening his pre election stance now and suddenly twitter is awash with him finally having some integrity.

Instantly reversing your position after an election is grand for the people it suits..........

Snow Garden

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Never heard of David Cullinane until now. His outburst will only make him more popular in some quarters.
Poor Mary Lou will have a job to keep the knuckle draggers and thicks in SF under control. She is lucky she can call on SF behind the scenes 'help'.

SF have to at least appear like a normal party - optics. That is Mary Lou's challenge.

He is often on the Tonight Show but he is very 'shifty' and knows how not to answer a question. I hope SF have better elected candidates to be honest.

The Golden Miller

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I bet if theyd campaigned saying how each of them would love to form a government with SF then afterwards did a u turn then SF supporters would be up in arms. But MM softening his pre election stance now and suddenly twitter is awash with him finally having some integrity.

Instantly reversing your position after an election is grand for the people it suits..........

OK....

blanch152

Pretzill wrote: »

There's a lot of people taking this swing towards Sinn Fein very seriously - but I would say for every one of them, there are at least two who will rhu the day they scribbled Number 1 beside SF without even knowing what are who they were voting for.

There is no disputing we need change. But this isn't change, this could be the worst thing that has happened in decades, and it's not that it annoys me, because I would never vote FFG, it annoys me because there is so much ignorance behind this. It's a protest vote - worrying times.

It is our Brexit, our Trump.

Cupatae

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Irish history is much more complex than that as many a SF supporter has pointed out on this thread.

But SF only want to spin their agenda.

For example Kevin Barry who I assume many a SF supporter has sung about after a few jars. Much is made of his youth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Barry

"a lad of eighteen summers"

But the fella that he shot was younger



Private Harold Washington aged 15 nearly 16.

The thing about posts like that is they were vastly different times, and there's no real context to that post, Jesus were awful quick to demonise our own, but it was needs must back in those days and fair play to any of em that fought at the end of the day right or wrong they fought for this country .

Id be completely against voilence now a days but to disrespect the people that fought (for what they thought was right ) back in those days is just wrong and shameful and down right turning on your own.

nkl12xtw5goz70

"The IRA," "Up the Ra," and "Bobby Sands" all trending on Twitter now. It feels like this election has sent us right back into the Troubles.

GreenandRed

Pretzill wrote: »

There's a lot of people taking this swing towards Sinn Fein very seriously - but I would say for every one of them, there are at least two who will rhu the day they scribbled Number 1 beside SF without even knowing what are who they were voting for.

There is no disputing we need change. But this isn't change, this could be the worst thing that has happened in decades, and it's not that it annoys me, because I would never vote FFG, it annoys me because there is so much ignorance behind this. It's a protest vote - worrying times.

It's not 1977. There's a few, not many, in FF and FG still that think people will vote on family party lines. FG seemed to put store in a social media presence that would bring them a big youth vote. Ecept many of the youth voters can use the same place they see social media to do some research on their candidates. Plus Varadkar was a poor FG leader, not so liked by some in Dublin and many outside of Dublin. A nice bloke but too naive for the top job.

gormdubhgorm

Cupatae wrote: »

Oh for sure but it just ends up in circles when one side trys to one up the other , there's hypocracy everywhere if you look hard enough , it doesn't achieve anything.

Not true. There is a lot of hypocrisy when it come to SF and no you do not have to look far at all. Cover up of murders, Mary Lou's comments on being tough on gangster crime in Dublin and her stance on SCC.
Then of course there is David Cullinane's victory speech when he did not realise he was being filmed!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%C3%A9in-s-david-cullinane-defends-shouting-up-the-ra-after-election-1.4168791?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fsinn-f%25C3%25A9in-s-david-cullinane-defends-shouting-up-the-ra-after-election-1.4168791

I do not have to look very far for at all for hypocrisy SF a party who apparently wants to forget the past....

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

GreenandRed wrote: »

Did you live in Northern Ireland during the troubles?

no, neither did any of the electorate in the republic of ireland.
no-one in the south voted with any thoughts to the north.
no-one.
unless they are terrorists .

GreenandRed

Kason Fancy Coal wrote: »

"The IRA," "Up the Ra," and "Bobby Sands" all trending on Twitter now. It feels like this election has sent us right back into the Troubles.

Keyboard militia raring to go.

Pretzill

GreenandRed wrote: »

It's not 1977. There's a few, not many, in FF and FG still that think people will vote on family party lines. FG seemed to put store in a social media presence that would bring them a big youth vote. Ecept many of the youth voters can use the same place they see social media to do some research on their candidates. Plus Varadkar was a poor FG leader, not so liked by some in Dublin and many outside of Dublin. A nice bloke but too naive for the top job.

I agree it's not 1977 - but it will soon feel like it.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Snow Garden wrote: »

He is often on the Tonight Show but he is very 'shifty' and knows how not to answer a question. I hope SF have better elected candidates to be honest.

He made a right tit of himself on "The Last Word" with Matt Cooper

https://www.todayfm.com/podcasts/the-last-word-with-matt-cooper/david-cullinane-ira-election

"I won't distance myself from the IRA"

GreenandRed

bubblypop wrote: »

Foxtrol wrote: »

no, neither did any of the electorate in the republic of ireland.
no-one in the south voted with any thoughts to the north.
no-one.
unless they are terrorists .

But many keyboard experts in the south on how life in the North was easy for people, the upheaval they endured, whose lives were threatened. Sure they should have just stayed indoors and let their Civil Rights be trampled upon in their own land. Maybe right a few protest letters to the good olk in the government while taking a break from being interned.

MoonUnit75

Make the Ra Great Again.

As said above, this is Ireland’s Trump moment.

gormdubhgorm

Cupatae wrote: »

The thing about posts like that is they were vastly different times, and there's no real context to that post, Jesus were awful quick to demonise our own, but it was needs must back in those days and fair play to any of em that fought at the end of the day right or wrong they fought for this country .

Id be completely against voilence now a days but to disrespect the people that fought (for what they thought was right ) back in those days is just wrong and shameful and down right turning on your own.

Of course there is context SF constantly wallow in the past while pretending to look to the future.
You only have to look at David Culliane's speech or Michelle O'Neill carrying Annie Cahills coffin. Or Mary Lou's stance on the SCC.

All these things happened recently and one only happened yesterday.

holyhead

Cupatae wrote: »

The thing about posts like that is they were vastly different times, and there's no real context to that post, Jesus were awful quick to demonise our own, but it was needs must back in those days and fair play to any of em that fought at the end of the day right or wrong they fought for this country .

Id be completely against voilence now a days but to disrespect the people that fought (for what they thought was right ) back in those days is just wrong and shameful and down right turning on your own.

The problem is SF violence is not historic in the museum sense. It happened in the last 20 years. The murder of Paul Quinn, Robert McCartney and Kevin McGuigan being the most high profile.
In looking for change the Irish electorate has swung away from the traditional duopoly of FF/FG. Their is a reason why FF/FG won't countenance going into government with SF. Unionists watching on will spot the irony of it all.
If SF actually get into government it will be interesting to see how they get on. Just don't give them finance or justice.

Bill 2.0

blanch152 wrote: »

It is our Brexit, our Trump.

Nah, that comes next.


This is our Obama. "Change" for the sake of it even though we live in one of the greatest countries in the world.

nkl12xtw5goz70

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

All these things happened recently and one only happened yesterday.

Just look at Claire Byrne, where Eoin Ó Broin is desperately trying to explain away "Up the Republic, up the Ra, and tiocfaidh ár lá" on so-called "tiredness."

gormdubhgorm

GreenandRed wrote: »

and????

The second fact about Harold Washington is ignored by most and buried in history. Because it does not suit the republican narrative.

For instance one of the two RIC men who were ambushed in Solohedbeg 1919 (2 v 8) was one of your countymen from Belmullet?

James McDonnell fluent Irish speaker widower, RIC constable - who left 7 children behind when he was killed


http://www.thurles.info/2013/07/23/rare-unseen-pictures-which-relate-to-tipperary/

FrancieBrady

holyhead wrote: »

The problem is SF violence is not historic in the museum sense. It happened in the last 20 years. The murder of Paul Quinn, Robert McCartney and Kevin McGuigan being the most high profile.
In looking for change the Irish electorate has swung away from the traditional duopoly of FF/FG. Their is a reason why FF/FG won't countenance going into government with SF. Unionists watching on will spot the irony of it all.
If SF actually get into government it will be interesting to see how they get on. Just don't give them finance or justice.

FF are a long way from where they where a couple days ago on going into government with them. FG have been working with them in councils and state bodies all over the country.

There is momentous hypocrisy going on here because the duopoly has been brought to a sudden juddering halt.

It will take a while for youse to get over it.

GreenandRed

holyhead wrote: »

The problem is SF violence is not historic in the museum sense. It happened in the last 20 years. The murder of Paul Quinn, Robert McCartney and Kevin McGuigan being the most high profile.
In looking for change the Irish electorate has swung away from the traditional duopoly of FF/FG. Their is a reason why FF/FG won't countenance going into government with SF. Unionists watching on will spot the irony of it all.
If SF actually get into government it will be interesting to see how they get on. Just don't give them finance or justice.

See how they do before judging them. FF may well go in with them. No matter what portfolios they hold any legislation needs to be voted on so they can't go too gung ho, hopefully!

Marty Bird

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Make the Ra Great Again.

As said above, this is Ireland’s Trump moment.

If SF can do what Donald Trump has done for the USA in his time in office then we will be doing well.

Foxtrol

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They haven't been involved in any high level EU negotiations.

What high level negotiations was Simon Coveney involved in before he was actually involved in them?

Are you saying we should keep FG in power for all time or for the forseeable? You saw what the electorate thought of that last minute plea. Fine Gael got the lowest vote share since 1948

I'm saying instead of getting outraged by semantics you should give FG credit for their achievements in Brexit negotiations, especially when you're also claiming some historical party experience (which record isn't great in itself) will magically translate to SF TDs (the ghost of Martin McGuinness possessing them?)

Assetbacked

Kason Fancy Coal wrote: »

"The IRA," "Up the Ra," and "Bobby Sands" all trending on Twitter now. It feels like this election has sent us right back into the Troubles.

Come out ye black and tans was #1 on Spotify a few weeks ago. Better get down into the bomb shelter.

Larbre34

Marty Bird wrote: »

If SF can do what Donald Trump has done for the USA in his time in office then we will be doing well.

Divide it, anger it, scare it, set the objective of uniting it back by decades?

They're off to a flying start anyway.