What have we come to

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'm linking the two to point out your complete hypocrisy.

What has Mary Lou, Eoin O Broin, Pearse Doherty or one of the new 'up the ra' crew personally achieved in high level European or even northern negotiations over the last 20 years?

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Why is an english man like yourself interested in irish politics?

where are you from?

holyhead

The Golden Miller wrote: »

The politicians could literally have stood on the streets in solidarity with their people. Yes, Irish people could literally have crossed the border to help out on the streets.

Instead they politicians were too busy censoring what was happening, liaising with the British, and using the situation to score political points on one another from the comfort of the south like they always did. You really believe their was a will from the decent Irish politicians or the decent Irish people to help, or were they quite happy to let the Irish in the north fend for themselves as long as they weren't effected in the south?

Appreciate you answering the question.

1. Irish people heading to the North while a nice idea, would have led to even greater bloodshed.
2. The North was a Unionist state which would not have tolerated politicians coming from another jurisdiction and again bloodshed.
3. The censorship in the Republic was because of SF being the political wing of the IRA. The SDLP were the acceptable face of Irish nationalism.

olestoepoke

Bill 2.0 wrote: »

Those people in the north aren't Irish, they are Northern Irish. You know, UK citizens from the UK nation of Northern Ireland.



Why would any Irish politicians or Irish citizens care about them?

Actually a lot of them are Irish citizens and hold Irish passports.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Another straw-man argument by you. That is the only anthem we have been given written in 1910. Plus many do not know the words in this country, or the meaning, sadly.

Many have called for the anthem to be changed. Which I agree with most mumble it if that. And it is not very catchy.

You know and I know the phrase 'up the ra' is aimed at the provos and that is what David Cullane did. An elected TD in the ROI. Bringing the SF stains down here. SF will be faced with this problem time and time again as it struggles with trying to normalise the party against such antics.

Let me ask you another one then...why would a Taoiseach pose under a picture of Michael Collins hung in his office?

Duke of Url

Duke of Url wrote: »

How could MM be Taoiseach with less seats then SF?

he will have more seats.
so, will Sinn Finn go into government with them/

holyhead

Bill 2.0 wrote: »

Those people in the north aren't Irish, they are Northern Irish. You know, UK citizens from the UK nation of Northern Ireland.



Why would any Irish politicians or Irish citizens care about them?

There would have been acceptance that their was a substantial minority of the population in N.I. who would identify themselves as Irish. But as I explained to Golden Miller any intervention on the streets of N.I. by Irish politicians of people from the south would have led to greater bloodshed.

Bill 2.0

olestoepoke wrote: »

Actually a lot of them are Irish citizens and hold Irish passports.

But they live in the UK so why should we care that much about them?


I don't give two ****s about some Irish lad living in Rochdale or where ever.

GreenandRed

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is the SF hypocrisy. That is the fundamental to the reason why other parties, won't go into government with them.

Sooner or later you have to let the past be the past to move forward. Some people did bad things but that shoudn't affect our futures. The hours wasted of 'sure ye did this, and we never did that' Leinster House tennis after the crash was sickening, like squabling children. Went on long after the crash and then more negative campaigning this election. Politicians of all parties need to be accountable to the people who voted for them. If many of them were managing or running a real business they'd either be sacked or bankrupt. Time for adults to work for Ireland.

holyhead

Bill 2.0 wrote: »

But they live in the UK so why should we care that much about them?


I don't give two ****s about some Irish lad living in Rochdale or where ever.

Historically we would regard Ireland to be one in the georgraphical sense and political. Many Irish people would hold the aspiration that the island would again be one country.

Bill 2.0

holyhead wrote: »

There would have been acceptance that their was a substantial minority of the population in N.I. who would identify themselves as Irish. But as I explained to Golden Miller any intervention on the streets of N.I. by Irish politicians of people from the south would have led to greater bloodshed.

They can identify themselves as whatever they want but they are living in the UK whether they are UK citizens or not.


We seem to be heading more and more towards a post-reality world where you can just be whatever you want to be simply by saying you are that thing.

holyhead

GreenandRed wrote: »

Sooner or later you have to let the past be the past to move forward.

Problem is when SF candidates should tal/up the ra it is they who are not moving on and indeed give us, the public an insight into the SF mindset.

olestoepoke

Bill 2.0 wrote: »

But they live in the UK so why should we care that much about them?


I don't give two ****s about some Irish lad living in Rochdale or where ever.

I was correcting your statement that they weren't Irish thats all.

GreenandRed

Bill 2.0 wrote: »

But they live in the UK so why should we care that much about them?


I don't give two ****s about some Irish lad living in Rochdale or where ever.

Because the reason some are there is because they can't afford to live here because of the housing, childcare, health, etc policies of confidence and supply.

irisheddie85

Duke of Url wrote: »

How could MM be Taoiseach with less seats then SF?

still 2 seats to be decided. looks like 2 FF seats. FF will be biggest party by 1 seat

Duke of Url

bubblypop wrote: »

he will have more seats.
so, will Sinn Finn go into government with them/

My mistake . I seen there are 2 seats left to fill

F1ngers

Duke of Url wrote: »

How could MM be Taoiseach with less seats then SF?

FF + FG + GP = 80+ seats = majority.
Not saying it will happen, but is a possibility.

Bill 2.0

holyhead wrote: »

Historically we would regard Ireland to be one in the georgraphical sense and political. Many Irish people would hold the aspiration that the island would again be one country.

I thought we were supposed to be looking forward now and not getting bogged down in the past?


The current situation is that Northern Ireland, which is part of the UK, is a seperate country from the Republic.



The UK has left the EU so how are we going to both take part of the UK and also then put it back into the EU?

joe40

Reading some of the analysis of this election in the British press, Guardian and independent, they are much more nuanced and aware of the actual issues than a lot of people in Ireland, who still want to live in the past.

GreenandRed

F1ngers wrote: »

FF + FG + GP = 180+ seats = majority.
Not saying it will happen, but is a possibility.

Would like to see it happen, not necesarily Martin as Taoiseach, but a three party coalition.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Let me ask you another one then...why would a Taoiseach pose under a picture of Michael Collins hung in his office?

He fancies him maybe?

FrancieBrady

irisheddie85 wrote: »

still 2 seats to be decided. looks like 2 FF seats. FF will be biggest party by 1 seat

By virtue of the Ceann Comhairle not having to be re-elected.

The election was a draw in terms of seats with SF winning the highest vote percentage.

GHOST MGG

F1ngers wrote: »

FF + FG + GP = 180+ seats = majority.
Not saying it will happen, but is a possibility.

Do you think the people will put up with another **** show of confidence and supply from FF and FG...the country voted for change as i see it.

GreenandRed

GHOST MGG wrote: »

Do you think the people will put up with another **** show of confidence and supply from FF and FG...the country voted for change as i see it.

The people have no say for another 5 years.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

He fancies him maybe?

I understand you want to divert to being glib because it is an awkward one to answer.

You might get used to this occasional mention of the RA or other stuff, because you will give yourself an ulcer.

If you want help on how to handle it, learn from the nationalist community who have no problems with Unionists celebrating people who slaughtered them during the months of July and August. As long as they are doing it respectfully and not in their faces in their own areas of course.

gormdubhgorm

joe40 wrote: »

Reading some of the analysis of this election in the British press, Guardian and independent, they are much more nuanced and aware of the actual issues than a lot of people in Ireland, who still want to live in the past.

Yeah, the part where David Culliane mentioned Bobby Sands and the H block and shouted 'up the ra' was really forward thinking.

If Leo is autistic, maybe Culliane has tourettes and 'up the ra' was a reflex.

Tourette's would be a bit dodgy when holding a gun though, so Culliane should be thankful he never got his dream membership.

Foxtrol

GHOST MGG wrote: »

Do you think the people will put up with another **** show of confidence and supply from FF and FG...the country voted for change as i see it.

Won't be confidence and supply, it'll instead be rotating Taoiseachs.

They'll only get to the point of doing that if SF are too cowardly to go into government and both parties will make sure SF are destroyed in the media for it.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yeah, the part where David Culliane mentioned Bobby Sands and the H block and shouted 'up the ra' was really forward thinking.

If Leo is autistic, maybe Culliane has tourettes and 'up the ra' was a reflex.

Tourette's would be a bit dodgy when holding a gun though, so Culliane should be thankful he never got his dream membership.

You still on this? Shinners would have supported the hunger strikers. Are you surprised?
Making light of autism being used as a slur. C'mon back to the moral outrage....

GreenandRed

Foxtrol wrote: »

Won't be confidence and supply, it'll instead be rotating Taoiseachs.

They'll only get to the point of doing that if SF are too cowardly to go into government and both parties will make sure SF are destroyed in the media for it.

Will they rotate Mary and Michael's Taoiseach's pension in that event?

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I understand you want to divert to being glib because it is an awkward one to answer.

You might get used to this occasional mention of the RA or other stuff, because you will give yourself an ulcer.

If you want help on how to handle it, learn from the nationalist community who have no problems with Unionists celebrating people who slaughtered them during the months of July and August. As long as they are doing it respectfully and not in their faces in their own areas of course.

OK I will tell you why Leo posed under a picture of Michael Collins.

1) In the gay scene he is apparently an icon and some even theorise he was gay

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/no-evidence-to-back-up-david-norris-allegation-that-michael-collins-was-gay-28819218.html


2) Collins was pro-treaty and stood for everything FG stands for.

Intelligence, compromise, slow and steady evolution of Ireland in the future.


3) Also he had great posture and I think Leo copies this -

irisheddie85

FrancieBrady wrote: »

By virtue of the Ceann Comhairle not having to be re-elected.

The election was a draw in terms of seats with SF winning the highest vote percentage.

the 4th place candidate in ceann comhairle constituency was goin to a FF candidate.

when trying to set up the next government number of seats matter, not who won most first preferences.

I'm delighted Fianna Fail and Fine Gael both got a good kicking in this election but would have rathered a bigger vote for Greens SD and labour.

Too many of the independents elected are FF FG rejects for a grand coalition of the left to work Imo.

hell if FF FG combined with all the independants who had at some stage supported either party i think they would have a majority