What have we come to

I see sheep

Kason Fancy Coal wrote: »

Before the 1990s, the country was on its knees economically, and most people didn't have any "standard of living" worth talking about. Most people worked on farms or in factories. A third-level education was out of the reach of the majority. There were no iPhones, Xboxes, or foreign holidays.

Before the 1990s, social welfare payments were a pittance compared to now. There was no lone parent's allowance before 1990, and so if a girl or woman got pregnant outside of marriage, she probably would wind up in a mother and baby home.

I was born in the 80s and both my parents had solid public service jobs straight out of Uni/College and owned a house in south Dublin at age 24.

'There were no iPhones, Xboxes'

Owning a house / secure long term rent is more important that having an Xbox I think.

And luckily a lot of voters agree.

It's why SF won! :cool:

Housing crisis deniers keep pretending there's no problem.

gormdubhgorm

I see sheep wrote: »

Honestly believe you are on a wind-up about this Brexit stuff.

'such an achievement'

At best FG are totally irrelevant to Brexit.

The people 'doing' Brexit couldn't care less who the Irish government is.

There has been no achievement.

I think you need to do a bit of research on FG's negotiations with the UK on Brexit - October 2019

The bilateral talks Leo and his team had with Boris.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/10/boris-johnson-and-leo-varadkar-say-they-see-pathway-to-brexit-deal

Also how Leo was integral part in the EU 27 negotiation - and renegotiated brexit Oct 2019

and also a bit of research on at least the basics of EU law and how brexit affects it.

http://brexitlegal.ie/effect-of-eu-law/

https://www.lawsociety.ie/brexit

jam_mac_jam

I see sheep wrote: »

I was born in the 80s and both my parents had solid public service jobs straight out of Uni/College and owned a house in south Dublin at age 24.

'There were no iPhones, Xboxes'

Owning a house / secure long term rent is more important that having an Xbox I think.

And luckily a lot of voters agree.

It's why SF won! :cool:

Housing crisis deniers keep pretending there's no problem.

Exactly the idea that life was so horrible and awful in past because we didn't have phones.

Yurt2

Earthhorse wrote: »

No idea what you're talking about or how it relates to anything I've said.

You're saying tough sh*t, younger people should put up with a lower standard of living than their parents generation. Young people through direct taxation pay for the older generation's state pension. It would dramatically reduce the sneer level from some of the older if the young voted en-masse to means test the state pension. Because they sure as sh*t didn't pay for the value of it via their stamp contributions.

I see sheep

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I think you need to do a bit of research on FG's negotiations with the UK on Brexit - October 2019

The bilateral talks Leo and his team had with Boris.

Also how Leo was integral part in the EU 27 negotiation - and renegotiated brexit Oct 2019

and also a bit of research on at least the basics of EU law and how brexit affects it.

http://brexitlegal.ie/effect-of-eu-law/

https://www.lawsociety.ie/brexit

Jesus Christ man, in relation to this election, nobody gives a toss about Brexit!

And rightly so.

jam_mac_jam

jmayo wrote: »

Yes they bought them usually on one salary, but then again right up until the 70s married women could not hold a public service job.
I can still remember visiting my uncle in Galway in late 70s, early 80s.
My first experience of city or even town living.
He lived in what would be termed middle class suburb built from 70s on.
He was in semi d on road of about 20 something houses, nearly 1/4 of them hadn't a car and any that did had A car.
I think by mid 80s and advent of new phone system most had a phone, but before that no.
Now most if not all of the mothers were stay at home.
It was just the way it was.
Most families were struggling to pay the mortgage and there was fook all other spending as in today.

Oh and listening to your point about "good areas", one would almost think everyone could buy houses in Foxrock or Shrewsbury Road. :rolleyes:
What was once outer suburbs that people bought in is now considered part of city.



That aint going to happen and it is time people copped onto that fact in Western world.
I will not have the pension that those who have had similar qualifications and job as me who are retired now have.



The rental market is where I have seen most change and I wholeheartedly agree rents are way too high.
And yes we should have been building faster to meet demand, but don't expect your son can buy a house in your areas just because you were able to on possibly a lower salary.
Our cities, our populations have increased and we are o longer the backwater with hue emigration.

BTW we built a housing bubble and we did not allow it fully deflate.
Thousands who should have been dumped out on their ar**es were not and that is one of the major reasons why we now have and will have higher interest rates than our neighbours in Europe.
Your son and the rest of us still paying a mortgage are going to pay for that.

BTW sorry to tell you this also, studying for a good degree is no longer the paths to riches or comfortabe living that it once was.

Oh and we are not really a rich country.
We are in debt, both personal and public, up to our eyeballs.
All of that supposed wealth could evaporate overnight.
Yes there are some very rich people, but the majority are nowhere near real wealth.
Over 50% of our corpo tax comes form 10 high tech non Irish companies.
The only indigenous enterprises our myopic banks and idiot politicians ever really backed were developers pushing overpriced crud to our population paid for by credit.
Our only real indigenous big player is agri and a lot of the younger generation like your son's can't now wait to screw it.

No i didn't mean that everyone was able to buy in Foxrock at all. Talking about pretty average areas that are now half a million for a house.

Also well aware that a degree is not going to give you riches. Not arguing for riches just that a normal wage should buy a house.

Crazy i know.

Earthhorse

Yurt! wrote: »

You're saying tough sh*t, younger people should put up with a lower standard of living than their parents generation. Young people through direct taxation pay for the older generation's state pension. It would dramatically reduce the sneer level from some of the older if the young voted en-masse to means test the state pension. Because they sure as sh*t didn't pay for the value of it via their stamp contributions.

Nah, I'm not saying tough sh*t, you're putting that slant on it. I'm saying that at a practical level we may need to rethink how we live. These problems with housing supply aren't exclusive to Ireland. There is limited space for people to live. I'm hopeful that a future of remote work and better transport will take the bite out of these problems and certainly think there are lots of ideas we can try to resolve housing here but there may just be a practical limit at some point with regards to standards of living.

gormdubhgorm

I see sheep wrote: »

Jesus Christ man, in relation to this election, nobody gives a toss about Brexit!

And rightly so.

This is the nub of it you do not give a toss about it because you do not understand it nor it's importance. But it is/was crucially important to Ireland and NI.

Also if you want to make it about health, housing and homeless etc - fair play SF made loads of promises.

But have you looked at SF's record in NI on these issues?


SF have actually widened the gap between rich and poor in NI

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/02/10/celebrating-sinn-fein-election-surge-consider-their-pro-austerity-record-north



Health NI:

https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2019/1204/1097090-northern-ireland-health/

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RVTQ7CyHeagJ:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/thousands-of-nurses-in-northern-ireland-strike-over-pay-1.4133733+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

Housing NI:

https://thedetail.tv/articles/social-housing-bb946a8a-43df-450d-b8cd-66d71030cdf3

Homelessness NI:

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/more-quarter-recent-uk-homeless-21114251

Social Welfare NI:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3Kdvi9pOC4gJ:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/sinn-f%25C3%25A9in-under-fire-over-welfare-cuts-move-1.2435441+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie


No governance in Stormont for over three years


Worse still SF sat on thier hands for three years playing games with the DUP in Stormont.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/10/pressure-mounts-northern-irish-parties-restore-power-sharing-sinn-fein-dup

jmayo

mrslancaster wrote: »

Absolutely disagree with that. Why should young people who study, work hard & pay high taxes have a lower standard of living than earlier generations?

Ok we keep hearing about how the young today are being screwed in comparison to earlier generations.
But are they really?

I grew up in 70s and 80s.
When I was leaveing school in mid 80s, my classmates weren't worried that they would not be able to afford a house in Ireland.
Most knew they had no hope of job in this country, never mind a house.
They were concerned whether or not they could get green card for US or if their relatives in London could get them good job on a site.
Coming up to exams no one was planning holiday to Magaluf or Ibiza, but a bus trip to London and work on sites.

At least I had got secondary education and was off to college, unlike my parents who left primary school and eventually emigrated like family and siblings.
When in college there were no foreign holidays unless you counted working abroad for the summer as a holiday.
Out of year of 130 engineering students I think about 7 or 8 had cars.
Feck all had computers, no one had phones, feck all had games consoles.

In college in late 80s early 90s no one was worried about how they mightn't afford a house, they were busting their asses trying to see if they could swing a job in one of the new companies like Dell or Intel.
Oh and they weren't going to buy a new or newish car to get to work, but a clapped out Fiesta, Micra or Starlet under the parents insurance.

And then when you did get job you were paying huge tax, couldn't afford a flight out of this rain soaked place and even getting a personal loan or credit card was hard.

It wasn't all fooking roses like some seem to think.

Sweet.Science

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

No i didn't mean that everyone was able to buy in Foxrock at all. Talking about pretty average areas that are now half a million for a house.

Also well aware that a degree is not going to give you riches. Not arguing for riches just that a normal wage should buy a house.

Crazy i know.

Whats the difference between a nice area and average area? I assume just the postcode

tjhook

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Whats the difference between a nice area and average area? I assume just the postcode

I think the difference is just the price. You can get some "nice" and some pretty dodgy places in the same postcode.

edit to say: Or maybe the price follows the situation? I.e. the "nice" areas later find their prices going up?

Topgear on Dave

I see sheep wrote: »

I was born in the 80s and both my parents had solid public service jobs straight out of Uni/College and owned a house in south Dublin at age 24.

They were very very lucky.

I was in school at the time and it was crap compared to schools today. A colleague at work told me about him leaving secondary school in '89 and taking the bus to London with his brother almost immediately.

But I'm not in denial at all about the rental problems, its a major problem.

I see sheep

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

This is the nub of it you do not give a toss about it because you do not understand it nor it's importance. But it is/was crucially important to Ireland and NI.
...
But have you looked at SF's record in NI on these issues?

If they get into government I'll judge them on what they do then, I'm not interested in looking at what different SF people did in NI.

I agree Brexit is going to have a huge impact on Ireland/NI but I'm saying we are irrelevant to the UK gov so having LV as leader or nor makes no difference.

Foxtrol

GreenandRed wrote: »

Sin Féin really have you worried after the last government's excellent job running the country.

I'm not worried in the slightest.

The most likely thing to me is that SF act the bully boy during negotiations for government while getting hit with several more PR disasters during the process. It already appears that they haven't even been able to get the other left parties to feign interest in 'a grand coalition of the left'. I don't believe another election in the short term will go the way most SF supporters expect it to.

If they did manage to ever form a government and SF manage to somehow give everyone all the goodies they promised and cut their taxes while not destroying the economy then everyone wins. In the more likely situation that they make a complete mess of things in government then they'll never see the light of day again.

There's a reason why many SF supporters are bending over backwards wanting FF & FG to form a coalition. It is clear who the worried ones are.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Brilliant from Waterford Whispers: "McDonald Asks Party To Refrain From Shouting ‘Up The Ra’ For At Least A Week"

gormdubhgorm

I see sheep wrote: »

If they get into government I'll judge them on what they do then, I'm not interested in looking at what different SF people did in NI.

I agree Brexit is going to have a huge impact on Ireland/NI but I'm saying we are irrelevant to the UK gov so having LV as leader or nor makes no difference.

They are the only AI party as they keep telling us.
Do you not think SF have policy meetings both nor and south?
Have you ever seen a Sinn Fein Ard Fheis and who attends them?

Also in case you have not noticed SF's whole reason for being is indelibly tied to NI.

Ironically you have a partionist attitude which diehard SF's hate. Them up there in NI different world.... different people.

But yet because of this partiionist attitude, and lack of knowledge about SF policies in NI and Brexit implications - the SF vote has grown!
The irony has not escaped me nor many others.

jam_mac_jam

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Whats the difference between a nice area and average area? I assume just the postcode

I mean the same thing by that. Nice is average. Not amazing areass. Just normal average areas that have since become 500k 600 k for a house. Not the coastal areas of Dublin but now out of the reach of the average buyer. I wasn't referring to Blackrock or Foxrock.

gormdubhgorm

Kason Fancy Coal wrote: »

Brilliant from Waterford Whispers: "McDonald Asks Party To Refrain From Shouting ‘Up The Ra’ For At Least A Week"

Plus the added bonus is that Cullinane is from Waterford.

Iscreamkone

SF will increase the black market economy - including rent.

1o059k7ewrqj3n

Iscreamkone wrote: »

SF will increase the black market economy - including rent.

Explain?

James Brown

suicide_circus wrote: »

they've certainly a lot of hype to live up to

A few weeks ago we'd people posting about how they'd be a wasted vote because they've no chance. Then it's a protest vote.. so were does the 'lot of hype' fit in?
People did what they always do, except now SF are up there not just FF.

machaseh

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They are the only AI party as they keep telling us.
Do you not think SF have policy meetings both nor and south?
Have you ever seen a Sinn Fein Ard Fheis and who attends them?

Also in case you have not noticed SF's whole reason for being is indelibly tied to NI.

Ironically you have a partionist attitude which diehard SF's hate. Them up there in NI different world.... different people.

But yet because of this partiionist attitude, and lack of knowledge about SF policies in NI and Brexit implications - the SF vote has grown!
The irony has not escaped me nor many others.

At the end of the day, why would any dubliner (SF or not) care about the policies within Northern Ireland? It's really just not something that affects our daily lives at all, unless you happen to have a lot of family up north.

I am sure that after unification, the two sinn feins will merge and will come up with a unified policy. Until that time it's just not something that affects people in the republic in their daily lives at all.

GreenandRed

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am not hiding anything (unlike SF)
Plus if it was not viewed as a gaff or harmful to SF - why did Mary Lou feel she had to do the usual SF half apology?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/mary-lou-mcdonald-apologises-over-england-get-out-of-ireland-banner-914906.html

Bad at lying.


Poor at hiding.


Worse than pathetic at trolling.

nkl12xtw5goz70

I see sheep wrote: »

I was born in the 80s and both my parents had solid public service jobs straight out of Uni/College and owned a house in south Dublin at age 24.

That's great for you — but most people born in the 80s weren't lucky enough to have two university-educated parents, both with good public-sector jobs, at a time when the majority of people could not afford third-level education and the unemployment rate was hovering around 17%. Your childhood experience is far from representative.

jam_mac_jam

Kason Fancy Coal wrote: »

That's great for you — but most people born in the 80s weren't lucky enough to have two university-educated parents, both with good public-sector jobs, at a time when the majority of people could not afford third-level education and the unemployment rate was hovering around 17%. Your childhood experience is far from representative.

You're right and interest rates were huge. There were different problems and issues. I don't thi k anyone would like to see us go back to that unemployment problem.

That doesn't mean there isn't a housing problem now.

GreeBo

So ignoring their past, how are SF going to fix the housing issue, the health issue and also balance the budget?

Where does the money come from?
How does money solve housing in Dublin?

machaseh

GreeBo wrote: »

So ignoring their past, how are SF going to fix the housing issue, the health issue and also balance the budget?

Where does the money come from?
How does money solve housing in Dublin?

Depends entirely on whether they even make it into government at all, and when they do it depends on who they will be in government with.

I wouldn't see FF+SF (plus any of the left wing parties) as a very stable coalition. There will probably not be a call for a border poll at that stage, I wouldn't think FF would allow it.

SF + all of the left parties + almost all TDs is probably also just not really an achievable goal.

James Brown

The FG shills are so busy being ignorant and plain rude about the people voted SF they are giving FF a pass. But that's the FF/FG plan.
A party that have put us in generational debt looking to be back in after FG creating and exacerbating crises.
We know what FF are like in government, but go on sure....

nkl12xtw5goz70

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

That doesn't mean there isn't a housing problem now.

I agree, there's absolutely a housing problem, especially within Dublin, but in other parts of the country as well.

Loose monetary policy has driven down bond yields and led pension fund managers to look for good alternative fixed-income options elsewhere. Many of them have fixed on property — which means that homebuyers, constrained by restrictive Central Bank rules, are now competing for properties with institutional investors who have billions at their disposal. That's an unfortunate side effect of ECB policy over the past decade.

A lopsided economic recovery has fueled record rent increases in Dublin as more and more people feel that they have to move there to get jobs.

There are sensible reforms that could be enacted to address all this, though. It's a shame that the main parties have not been more responsive — but the absolute wrong answer is to hand the reins of power to the far left.

Foxtrol

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

You're right and interest rates were huge. There were different problems and issues. I don't thi k anyone would like to see us go back to that unemployment problem.

That doesn't mean there isn't a housing problem now.

That's the balance though. It is nearly impossible not to have some issues out there, you can't be all things to all people like SF manifesto claims.

A lot of SF policies have a high likelihood of increasing unemployment.