What have we come to

Odhinn · 11-02-2020 5:18pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Nope I would like SF TD's to behave as respectable TD's, and not like gombeens pandering to vey dubious individuals in thier party base.

Is that too much to ask? I suppose in a way it is difficult to stop them from the mask slipping. A litmus test of sorts.

Yeah, as I said, you want SF to not be a republican party, disavow its past and would probably be happy to see them dissolve out of existence entirely.

suicide_circus · 11-02-2020 5:19pm

One thing i'm learning is that nothing is ever Sinn Fein's fault.

James Brown · 11-02-2020 5:24pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

One thing i'm learning is that nothing is ever Sinn Fein's fault.

i disagree. Every party needs to be held to account. Maybe you're thinking of Fine Gael?

blanch152 · 11-02-2020 5:31pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That's nonsense. You try do the right thing. That's what makes character. You don't know until you try. It was the right move IMO.

Boss, IMO all you do is try attack and score points.
Look at this. The other lad called it silly games. I explained why I don't think it was by citing Foster/cash for ash.
You come in saying she's still there. like them failing means what? They shouldn't have tried or na na, na, na na? Give over.

I am saying it was a very bad call and completely unjustified.

They walked out of Stormont to get Foster, no other reason, no principle, no policy, just an opportunity to get a politician they didn't like. It is never the right thing to base politics on personalities.

That wasn't enough reason to waste three years, and in any event, it failed.

gormdubhgorm · 11-02-2020 5:38pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Thanks for the links. I have access to the internet.
They represented the tax payer by holding Foster to account. I can see how that's silly games to a FG supporter.

Wow - more deflection misdirection and lies at least have the decency to read the links before you comment?

There was no holding Foster to account from SF what they did was create a needless Irish languge act issue. Which SF could try and hide behind to annoy foster. Grand it would be nice if Foster WAS held to account as is just and proper.

But where was the clamor for people to be held to account over the Paul Quinn murder etc. Suddenly SF were very quiet for holding people to account there and resorted to discrediting an innocent man

I ain't nitpicking sh*t. I've answered. You keep making inferences.
If you've proof, great. This isn't a defence by the way. You blustering about SF and spinning yarns will get called out. Try it on another party, you'll get the same responses. This is all designed to cover up for FG and give FF a free pass IMO.

You plainly have not answered questions and just repeated the SF myth that 'FFG' as you call it are the cause of all the country's ills. Yet you deny FG's successes in government. And somehow call for accountability for precieved ills yet, you seem to let SF get away with zero accountability at all!

All the waster, scumbag, ill educated comments have been from FG supporters to anyone voted SF. That's seemingly FG politics.

I have never called any SF voted a waster or scumbag. But you have to wonder why that stereotype is there? I am not a FG supporter I am a floating voter who votes for who is the most stable and worthy of being in power.
FG politics do not have to deflection attention from murdering an innocent man and cover ups of same.

If SF really want to be taken seriously - you are right about one thing there needs to be accountability and ownership of republicanism warts and all. Be decent.

FrancieBrady · 11-02-2020 5:40pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Considering the IRA is a secret paramiltary organisation the burden of proof you place on me is high/
Any chance I have of joining Óglaigh na hÉireann will be severely dented by this thread.

So I am not sure what prove you are asking for? Who do you think are the brains behind SF - the army council or former army council? They just did not start tending thier gardens or playing golf/

Of course I believe both those lads were promoting the provos. David C in particular gave a speech praising them for jayus sake. Although the song get out you black and tans seems harmless on it's own. It has a different more sinister meaning when former IRA man and prisoner Dessie E sings it.
Proof of the fact leopards do not change thier spots?

So you don't know if the IRA still exist but you think he was promoting them as a 'live' organisation?

I think the real 'sinister' thing is that people (and not unimportantly, our former Government parties) are encouraging a group they believe is controlled by an illegal, paramilitary organisation (the existence of which is totally anti-GFA btw) to go into government in northern Ireland.

Don't you think? Are you fond of voting for hypocrits?

P.S. I don't believe the IRA exist anymore (based on the Independent bodies set up to monitor this) so I don't think the government was hypocritical in that respect. They are when it comes to who justifies a government role here though.

Come off it in many republicans eyes the RA can do no real wrong, they might refer to unfortunate mistakes at most for a killing here or there. What Cullinane did will stay on the internet for life - he only did it because he did not know he was being filmed. How do you think anyone who has to negotiate with him in future will see him? A wannabe provo, a bit of an eejit, not very savvy?

Cullinane apologised if it caused offence, that wasn't his intention. He didn't apologise, and made it clear he wasn't, apologising for the content of what he said.

I am not getting into this again my views on it are well covered on the relevant thread.

Well, what are your views on what is appropriate remembrance then? Given that nobody on any side is going to go for your history wipe project?

James Brown · 11-02-2020 5:40pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I am saying it was a very bad call and completely unjustified.

They walked out of Stormont to get Foster, no other reason, no principle, no policy, just an opportunity to get a politician they didn't like. It is never the right thing to base politics on personalities.

That wasn't enough reason to waste three years, and in any event, it failed.

That's cool. I disagree. Hardly 'silly games' as the poster put it.
You could argue that on every issue in any government.
Ripping off the tax payer should not be ignored IMO.
It sure did.

gormdubhgorm · 11-02-2020 5:41pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Yeah, as I said, you want SF to not be a republican party, disavow its past and would probably be happy to see them dissolve out of existence entirely.

Not true I said take 'ownership' of it responsibly.

SF are like that wild young relative, who you would have to keep an eye on night out. Not very mature or sensible. But they will slowly grow out of it or die off.

James Brown · 11-02-2020 5:44pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Not true I said take 'ownership' of it responsibly.

SF are like that wild young relative, who you would have to keep an eye on night out. Not very mature or sensible. But they will slowly grow out of it or die off.

Reminded me of this:

Taoiseach's nephew jailed for burglary, drugs and car theft

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/taoiseachs-nephew-jailed-for-burglary-drugs-and-car-theft-29070671.html

Not politics. And FG are not responsible. I will not be slipping in little digs about cars being robbed by FG now they'll lose the government cars.

jmayo · 11-02-2020 5:50pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Stop! stop! stop! The grand narrative is collapsing around me.

bUiLDiNG aFfORDaBLE HOusInG iS imPOSSibLe! I dOn'T CaRe if AUSTriANS Do it. ThAT's dIFFeRent. TheY SPEak GeRMan.

Since you have refused to come back and answer my multiple questions about how sinn fein are going to solve the housing issues and you then dump references to Austria I am going to challenge your typical shinner one line here.

Yes Austria has subsidised affordable housing but why not flush it out a wee bit for the folks around here.

For instance how many people want their affordable housing with absolutely no parking spaces ?
I mean it's not as if we need cars since our public transport so shyte.

Also when Irish people speak of housing they usually think of A HOUSE, not an apartment.
And definitely not one in a big high rise.

5b4e21541900002b00c65f11.jpeg?ops=scalefit_970_noupscale

5b4e21541900002b00c65f11.jpeg?ops=scalefit_970_noupscale

That is Alt-Erlaa municipal housing in Vienna.

gormdubhgorm · 11-02-2020 5:50pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That's cool. I disagree. Hardly 'silly games' as the poster put it.

Come on an 'Irish language act' Michelle O'Neill no Irish and Mary Lou weak. They should be ashamed of themselves for politicizing the Irish language. That is another thing I would add to my list. I know many who refuse to wear a fainne because they are afraid they might be associated with the unsavory side of SF.

Plus if republicans/nationalists in Ireland were really following the ideals of Griffith and Pearse they would not be speaking in the oppressors tongue surely?

Also how would an Irish language act in NI help the Irish language develop in a practical sense?
As usual with most of SF's main tenets it is merely symbolic or aspirational.

I would be more impressed with Michelle O'Neill getting Irish lessons - a practical move.

blanch152 · 11-02-2020 5:52pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Come on an 'Irish language act' Michelle O'Neil no Irishm and Mary Lou weak. They should be ashamed of themselves for politicizing the Irish language. That is another thing I would add to my list. I know many who refuse to wear a fainne because they are afraid they might be associated with the unsavory side of SF.

Plus if republicans/nationalists in Ireland were really following the ideals of Griffith and Pearse they would not be speaking in the oppressors tongue surely?

Also how would an Irish language act in NI help the Irish language develop in a practical sense?
As usual with most of SF's main tenets it is merely symbolic or aspirational.

I would be more impressed with Michelle O'Neill getting Irish lessons - a practical move.

Northern Ireland Irish died out in the mid-1970s when the last native speaker passed away.

There was a revival of the language happening at the same time, but it was the importation of Donegal Irish and it was non-native speakers. Very similar to how Ulster Scots is being revived today.

FrancieBrady · 11-02-2020 5:55pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Come on an 'Irish language act' Michelle O'Neil no Irishm and Mary Lou weak. They should be ashamed of themselves for politicizing the Irish language. That is another thing I would add to my list. I know many who refuse to wear a fainne because they are afraid they might be associated with the unsavory side of SF.

Plus if republicans/nationalists in Ireland were really following the ideals of Griffith and Pearse they would not be speaking in the oppressors tongue surely?

Also how would an Irish language act in NI help the Irish language develop in a practical sense?
As usual with most of SF's main tenets it is merely symbolic or aspirational.

I would be more impressed with Michelle O'Neill getting Irish lessons - a practical move.

We get it Gormdubh, you are politically opposed to SF and their policys. It's ok...it's just a policy.
You don't get to set other party's priorities. This is not a dictatorship.

gormdubhgorm · 11-02-2020 5:57pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Reminded me of this:

Not politics. And FG are not responsible. I will not be slipping in little digs about cars being robbed by FG now they'll lose the government cars.

See same tactic again Matt try and one up murder, or protection of same - with car theft!

I will give you a hint of what it would be called if Paul Quinn RIP - lived. It would be called Aggravated assault.
But because he died it is called... murder

Note how the person in your post was held accountable and there was justice?

Gerry McCabe RIP only got justice in a round about way - because his Murderer Pearse McCauley stabbed his then wife Tully SF TD repeatedly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearse_McAuley

jmayo · 11-02-2020 5:58pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Reminded me of this:

Not politics. And FG are not responsible. I will not be slipping in little digs about cars being robbed by FG now they'll lose the government cars.

Jaysus if you are going to start comparing criminal links, you will have a hard time finding any FGers or even ffers that can surpass a guy found with explosives, whose fingerprints were on the explosives linked to the deaths of 11 people, who was deported from US and was sentenced to 10 odd years in prison.

BTW the ex taoiseachs nephew wasn't ever running for election for the party unlike the above gent.

But carry on there and we can all have a laugh.

EDIT gormdubhgorm thanks for reminding us that another SF TD was married to a garda killer.

James Brown · 11-02-2020 6:01pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Come on an 'Irish language act' Michelle O'Neil no Irishm and Mary Lou weak. They should be ashamed of themselves for politicizing the Irish language. That is another thing I would add to my list. I know many who refuse to wear a fainne because they are afraid they might be associated with the unsavory side of SF.

Plus if republicans/nationalists in Ireland were really following the ideals of Griffith and Pearse they would not be speaking in the oppressors tongue surely?

Also how would an Irish language act in NI help the Irish language develop in a practical sense?
As usual with most of SF's main tenets it is merely symbolic or aspirational.

I would be more impressed with Michelle O'Neill getting Irish lessons - a practical move.

It's the culture and heritage of all Ireland and it's people, old or new. I don't speak it and I support it. To nip this in the bud, you may not agree it's important but that's okay.

The rest of your post is irrelevant meanderings.

blanch152 wrote: »

Northern Ireland Irish died out in the mid-1970s when the last native speaker passed away.

There was a revival of the language happening at the same time, but it was the importation of Donegal Irish and it was non-native speakers. Very similar to how Ulster Scots is being revived today.

That's not true. Ulster Scots is a 'language' derived from slang derived from the phonetic pronunciation of a blend of Scots Gaelic and English.
Why are you so against the Irish having their language but never critical of the Unionists having theres?

James Brown · 11-02-2020 6:03pm

jmayo wrote: »

Jaysus if you are going to start comparing criminal links, you will have a hard time finding any FGers or even ffers that can surpass a guy found with explosives, whose fingerprints were on the explosives linked to the deaths of 11 people, who was deported from US and was sentenced to 10 odd years in prison.

BTW the ex taoiseachs nephew wasn't ever running for election for the party unlike the above gent.

But carry on there and we can all have a laugh.

EDIT gormdubhgorm thanks for reminding us that another SF TD was married to a garda killer.

Nope. My post explains itself. I was having a laugh.
If you want to use it as a jumping off point for irrelevancies about the 'RA, go for it.

blanch152 · 11-02-2020 6:04pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That's not true. Ulster Scots is a 'language' derived from slang derived from the phonetic pronunciation of a blend of Scots Gaelic and English.
Why are you so against the Irish having their language but never critical of the Unionists having theres?

It is true that the last native speaker of Irish in Northern Ireland died in the 1970s and that any speakers in the North today are based on imported Southern dialects. That has been documented and explained on here many times.

Edit: While it may be disputed as to whether Ulster Scots is a language or a dialect, it does seem that unlike Northern Ireland Irish, its speakers did not allow it to die out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Scots_dialects

James Brown · 11-02-2020 6:05pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

See same tactic again Matt try and one up murder, or protection of same - with car theft!

I will give you a hint of what it would be called if Paul Quinn RIP - lived. It would be called Aggravated assault.
But because he died it is called... murder

Note how the person in your post was held accountable and there was justice?

Gerry McCabe RIP only got justice in a round about way - because his Murderer Pearse McCauley stabbed his then wife Tully SF TD repeatedly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearse_McAuley

You are dishonest and not having a genuine discussion. Also yawn inducing.

James Brown · 11-02-2020 6:07pm

blanch152 wrote: »

It is true that the last native speaker of Irish in Northern Ireland died in the 1970s and that any speakers in the North today are based on imported Southern dialects. That has been documented and explained on here many times.

I was speaking on Ulster-Scots and the similarities.

Why so negative towards our language but seemingly no issue and defensive of Ulster-Scots?

gormdubhgorm · 11-02-2020 6:07pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We get it Gormdubh, you are politically opposed to SF and their policys. It's ok...it's just a policy.
You don't get to set other party's priorities. This is not a dictatorship.

Not completely it is the level of SF hypocrisy that gets me.

No to Sunningdale 1973 - yes to the GFA 1998

Asks for accountability from others fraud and so (as is right) but on the other hand lets those republicans who commit murder have none.

Claims to not want to live in the past on the one hand, but revels in it on the other.

Irish language Act games is just another of thier hypocrisies.

Blaze420 · 11-02-2020 6:07pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You are dishonest and not having a genuine discussion. Also yawn inducing.

Yeah the murder of an innocent man by scumbags is yawn inducing, good to know the mindset of the SF voter..

blanch152 · 11-02-2020 6:08pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Nope. My post explains itself. I was having a laugh.
If you want to use it as a jumping off point for irrelevancies about the 'RA, go for it.

I am sure that it is a real laugh for that young man with his troubles or his mother or his family to see his court case dragged onto these boards for no other reason than your personal amusement.

gormdubhgorm · 11-02-2020 6:08pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You are dishonest and not having a genuine discussion. Also yawn inducing.

How is that dishonest and you dismiss murder with a yawn?

Wow.... cold blooded.

James Brown · 11-02-2020 6:10pm

Blaze420 wrote: »

Yeah the murder of an innocent man by scumbags is yawn inducing, good to know the mindset of the SF voter..

It is when you hear about it over and over and over and over regarding the election. To me anyway.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

How is that dishonest and you dismiss murder with a yawn?

Wow.... cold blooded.

I don't think you care one bit. Using it to score points is disgraceful and now very tiresome.

blanch152 wrote: »

I am sure that it is a real laugh for that young man with his troubles or his mother or his family to see his court case dragged onto these boards for no other reason than your personal amusement.

It did amuse me in the context presented. Very much so. Aye.

FYI: the faux morals isn't fooling anyone lads.

Free pass for FF continues....

shesty · 11-02-2020 6:10pm

For anyone having doubts about the continued existence of the IRA...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/sinn-f%C3%A9in-vice-president-michelle-o-neill-targeted-by-dissident-plot-1.4170433?mode=amp

Myself, I don't care what SF say they will do.I will never be able to separate them from the IRA.It was a background to too many of my years growing up, and I don't even live up North.It is too recent for too many people, and giving them the benefit of the doubt is just a step too far.I don't have an allegiance to anyone else btw, and I believe all parties are very similar.But SF are something else entirely.

Blaze420 · 11-02-2020 6:12pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It is when you hear about it over and over and over and over. To me anyway

Yeah cos the truth hurts doesn’t it? It’s not going to go away.

James Brown · 11-02-2020 6:15pm

Blaze420 wrote: »

Yeah cos the truth hurts doesn’t it? It’s not going to go away.

I don't care. Keep it up. I find it tiresome out of context and used as a distraction. If you really cared you wouldn't be so disrespectful.

gormdubhgorm · 11-02-2020 6:17pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It is when you hear about it over and over and over and over. To me anyway.

It did amuse me in the context presented. Very much so. Aye.

What saddens me is you tried to one up murder with a former taoiseachs 18 nephew robbing a car, burglary, and taking drugs. A person with no involvement with politics. And no connection other than by familial relation.

The key point here was he was held accountable for his actions in a court of law.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/taoiseachs-nephew-jailed-for-burglary-drugs-and-car-theft-29070671.html

But somehow you seem to think it is OK that SF protect republicans from prosecution for murder?

Where is the justice where is the accountability?

At this stage I think you are either having a laugh. or psychotic?

FrancieBrady · 11-02-2020 6:18pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Not completely it is the level of SF hypocrisy that gets me.

No to Sunningdale 1973 - yes to the GFA 1998

They weren't fecking involved in 'Sunningdale'. And it is crucially different in a number of respects to the GFA.

And it was BROUGHT DOWN BY UNIONISTS in collusion with elements of the British.

Asks for accountability from others fraud and so (as is right) but on the other hand lets those republicans who commit murder have none.

Here you go...wittering on about SF having no respect for the police and the courts and you are showing you have none.
If republicans are with-holding information then they should be charged with that.

Claims to not want to live in the past on the one hand, but revels in it on the other.

Who has claimed that it is wrong to remember?

Irish language Act games is just another of thier hypocrisies.

It isn't a priority for you, and neither is parity of esteem. OK, We get it.

What have we come to

Comments