What have we come to

Foxtrol

Gynoid wrote: »

That was my experience with my Dad working making a living wage using Irish raw material to make products for the home market in a factory 200 yards from where we lived. Unions were a big part of life in those places, big part of home chat too. Whole towns lived and then died around these places as the unions were gradually smashed by globalist big capital interests.The fact that you think it is made up right wing fantasy is telling and sad.

How are you enjoying that internet and laptop/phone you're using to post here?

The world moves on, people want all the benefits of globalisation and capitalism but don't want any of the downsides of it.

It is why people of that mindset flock to populists like Trump, Boris, or SF. They tell people they can have everything and people buy into it, especially those who are nostalgic.

Geuze

blanch152 wrote: »

Nobody is or was relying on the market to provide housing, that was another false narrative of the election.



https://rebuildingireland.ie/news/minister-murphy-publishes-social-housing-construction-status-report-for-q3-2019/

By depending on the market, I also mean using HAP so much, rather than direct building.

Gynoid

Foxtrol wrote: »

How are you enjoying that internet and laptop/phone you're using to post here?

The world moves on, people want all the benefits of globalisation and capitalism but don't want any of the downsides of it.

It is why people of that mindset flock to populists like Trump, Boris, or SF. They tell people they can have everything and people buy into it, especially those who are nostalgic.

Uh yeah, if you read the thread you would see I object to the idealisation of SF. Or any other party for that matter. I never vote for parties. My point is people fail to see the roots of the demise of personal self sufficiency in the feudalism that is globalisation. People have a fantasy star trek image of globalism but corporate globalism cannot survive without having a huge underclass enslaved making cheap goods and a class above that on the wage slave treadmill consuming cheap goods. All our perks come from the torment of that huge underclass, that system rules us above any politics we may think we have put in power, corporations have claimed sovreignty over the demos, I cannot admire such a system. Globalisation is not a necessary precondition either to modernity, advancement, invention, that is part of the lie.

James Brown

Allinall wrote: »

Inviting and using?

How so?

Low tax.
Using, leasing and buying in lieu of building social housing.
Low tax and customer.

Jinglejangle69

Holy feck lads where do some of you get the time to post here all day long!!

Like do yous even eat!??

Some notable posters here.

James Brown

Geuze wrote: »

By depending on the market, I also mean using HAP so much, rather than direct building.

It was FG using the market and relying on it exacerbated the crises in housing and homelessness.
Hotels and buying at market use to be emergency one off measures. Now its common and costly.
Thankfully most of those likely to form a government will build.

tigerboon

Calhoun wrote: »

1. The removal of bedsits without viable alternatives.
2. The handling of NAMA and selling off of housing stock cheap.
3. The rental pressure zones, which lock in prices at higher level essentially protecting investors.
4. Increasing incentives for first time buyers without increasing the ability for builders to actually build.
5. Letting the vulture funds be the only show in town when it comes to investment.

The government essentially have manipulated the market to ensure that there is a decent return for investors. Had they actually introduced change that would see growth for the public the rental yields would not be as good.

Large mortgage deposits which forces people to rent longer, leading to pressure on rents, therefore increasing yields for buy to lets. This increases the value .
Increased building costs due to over regulation. Keeps the small builder out as they wouldn't get the level of credit required. Increased regulations is creating a government sponsored monopoly.
Outlaw bedsits because they'd keep rent down...
Costs are deliberately being kept up and wages at a level so housing is not affordable.

blanch152

Geuze wrote: »

By depending on the market, I also mean using HAP so much, rather than direct building.

Capacity to build was an issue, it still is.

This is being ramped up and whoever is in government over the next few years will reap the benefits of the increase in apprenticeships over the last two or three years.

smurgen

https://twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1227256737524322304?s=19

Foxtrol

Gynoid wrote: »

Uh yeah, if you read the thread you would see I object to the idealisation of SF. Or any other party for that matter. I never vote for parties. My point is people fail to see the roots of the demise of personal self sufficiency in the feudalism that is globalisation. People have a fantasy star trek image of globalism but corporate globalism cannot survive without having a huge underclass enslaved making cheap goods and a class above that on the wage slave treadmill consuming cheap goods. All our perks come from the torment of that huge underclass, that system rules us above any politics we may think we have put in power, corporations have claimed sovreignty over the demos, I cannot admire such a system. Globalisation is not a necessary precondition either to modernity, advancement, invention, that is part of the lie.

In an interconnected world where advancement means that we now have machinery that can replace most manual labour, what system do you suggest we move to that will provide all the benefits but none of the downsides you complain about?

gormdubhgorm

smurgen wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1227256737524322304?s=19

In 2019 NI had 7,809 increase in houses completed the total housing stock is 798,971. So that is just under a 10% increase.

https://www.communities-ni.gov.uk/system/files/publications/communities/ni-housing-stats-18-19-full-copy.PDF

If you look at the figures for of 2019 - 17% more homes were built in the ROI as per housing stock than the previous year.

https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/construction/newdwellingcompletions/

That means that the ROI has built 7% more houses in the same year than NI.

Note - this is as per housing stock in each jurisdiction.

Foxtrol

smurgen wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1227256737524322304?s=19

Not absolving FG for the mess they made on housing but is he stupid or does he believe potential SF voters are?

For something that has a slow ramp up time, of course you're going to be behind the average in the initial period and then you should be ahead of your average in the later years.

Is he setting himself up to pat himself on the back in case SF have the balls to go into government and he gets the job?

gormdubhgorm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

In 2019 NI had 7,809 increase in houses completed the total housing stock is 798,971. So that is just under a 10% increase.

https://www.communities-ni.gov.uk/system/files/publications/communities/ni-housing-stats-18-19-full-copy.PDF

If you look at the figures for of 2019 - 17% more homes were built in the ROI than the previous year.

https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/construction/newdwellingcompletions/

That means that the ROI has built 7% more houses in the same year.

Population of NI: 1,891,100 (2019)


Population of ROI: 4.9 million (2019)

gormdubhgorm

DubInMeath wrote: »

Population of NI: 1,891,100 (2019)


Population of ROI: 4.9 million (2019)

Hence the percentages of houses built as per the amount of housing stock, in each jurisdiction.

Yet in NI there is nearly less than half of the percentage increase than the ROI.

Figures don't lie in this case.

Yurt2

:P

Blaze420 wrote: »

You are just making vague sound bites, I’m telling you like it is. I’m just trying to get by as well but blaming the government for the wage I’m on or the money I have left after rent and bills i chose to pay is a bit pointless don’t you think?

Vintage clever hard working boy post. Welfare rant snipped as my eyeballs were bleeding with its clichédness.

- Telling it like it is. Check.

You 'chose' to pay rent in bills? Champ, unless you want to live under a bridge or back with your ma you are at the mercy of the rental market. It's not some sort of radical act of individual agency. A roof over one's head is not some sort of 'nice to have' but not essential thing.

joseywhales

“They didn’t break the hunger strikers, they didn’t break Bobby Sands and Kevin Lynch, they’ll never break us and they’ll never break SF"

Can only assume this is in reference to irish politicians who have served for years representing the interests of the people of the republic of Ireland.

This is going to be painful....

um7y1h83ge06nx

I know some SF supporters would talk about "Free Staters". If SF get into government, will they themselves be "Free Staters" then?

Also what would happen when or if the British PM or a member of the royal family want to do a state visit, will it happen or would SF block it.

Even the smaller things about SF in gov are fascinating, never mind the big stuff.

US2

Hope Tasteless Flick wrote: »

I know some SF supporters would talk about "Free Staters". If SF get into government, will they themselves be "Free Staters" then?

Also what would happen when or if the British PM or a member of the royal family want to do a state visit, will it happen or would SF block it.

Even the smaller things about SF in gov are fascinating, never mind the big stuff.

Dont think it would be a problem
https://images.app.goo.gl/7PtArAiRuozY4jbr5

AndyBoBandy

So Sinn Fein are talking to the Greens and 1st item on the agenda is carbon tax hikes!! Sinn Fein need to raise €11B for their ‘houses for all’ policy so this will be a match made in heaven....

More carbon taxes!! Yay!!

markodaly

Calhoun wrote: »

1. The removal of bedsits without viable alternatives.
2. The handling of NAMA and selling off of housing stock cheap.
3. The rental pressure zones, which lock in prices at higher level essentially protecting investors.
4. Increasing incentives for first time buyers without increasing the ability for builders to actually build.
5. Letting the vulture funds be the only show in town when it comes to investment.

The government essentially have manipulated the market to ensure that there is a decent return for investors. Had they actually introduced change that would see growth for the public the rental yields would not be as good.

Em, two of the motions I highlighted were done by left leaning parties.
The greens were behind the bedsits removal, and the Labour party under Alan Kelly steam rolled ahead with the rental preassure zones.

Other points are not true either. 'Vulture' funds as you call them are only responsible for 1% of builds afaik. The government build way more houses than vulture funds, but its fashionable to bang on about them.

markodaly

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

So Sinn Fein are talking to the Greens and 1st item on the agenda is carbon tax hikes!! Sinn Fein need to raise €11B for their ‘houses for all’ policy so this will be a match made in heaven....

More carbon taxes!! Yay!!

That will be fun.

Either the Greens ditch the carbon taxes which is arguably their core tennant of their manifesto, or SF do a u-turn and agree to Carbon Taxes.

Senior Hurling now lads!!

suicide_circus

can carbon taxes only be applied to the rich? :P

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

That will be fun.

Either the Greens ditch the carbon taxes which is arguably their core tennant of their manifesto, or SF do a u-turn and agree to Carbon Taxes.

Senior Hurling now lads!!

I suppose ha ha nudge nudge, you would be expecting them to force the Greens into government at gunpoint?...har dee har har, I am so edgy.

All parties will have to compromise on redlines if a government is to be formed.


Let's see what evolves.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I suppose ha ha nudge nudge, you would be expecting them to force the Greens into government at gunpoint?...har dee har har, I am so edgy.

All parties will have to compromise on redlines if a government is to be formed.


Let's see what evolves.

And of course that will be the excuse SF trots out when all these promises are not be delivered. Such as change and fighting back.

The optics are with SF at the moment as most of those in the ROI in particular Dublin - are ignorant to the government record of SF in NI. Even the most basic research on what SF have passed in NI shows them up.

Will SF go the way of Labour when the electorate realise their 1930's FF manifesto's could not be delivered?

At the moment SF are like an updated FF cover band.

The difference was with FF was they wrote the original's and were a much more popular band at than today's SF.

On top of that we are bound to have those other embarrassments to SF will pop up now and again. Of course these will be ignored and mention of them will be termed as 'Shinner bashing'.

gormdubhgorm

markodaly wrote: »

That will be fun.

Either the Greens ditch the carbon taxes which is arguably their core tennant of their manifesto, or SF do a u-turn and agree to Carbon Taxes.

Senior Hurling now lads!!

Low carbon footprint semtex?

No animals were harmed in the production of same.

holyhead

Watching a France 24 debate on the outcome of the Irish election. It showed a clip of Dessie Ellis and his supporters singing come out ye black and tans. What kind of gombeen image does this project of Ireland around the world. Depressing.

gormdubhgorm

holyhead wrote: »

Watching a France 24 debate on the outcome of the Irish election. It showed a clip of Dessie Ellis and his supporters singing come out ye black and tans. What kind of gombeen image does this project of Ireland around the world. Depressing.

Exactly the problem is SF are stuck in a contradiction they glorify republican past, they love the pantomime of it.

Republican funerals and the like this panders to the working class disenfranchised and disillusioned.



That is what the republican dreamers like to think of the past. David Cullinane was creaming himself imagining he is the same as his heroes Bobby Sands and the H block lads. But yet SF do not want mentions of the past of things they find uncomfortable or will harm thier chances with the ROI electorate.


Meanwhile middle class Mary Lou from D6 in Rathgar says she cannot mammy them. The likes of Culinane and Ellis.

Mary Lou prefers to try and make SF appear less camouflaged and more progressive. This is the type of dressing up and pantomime she wants to be seen in.



I will give SF this no other party has to play the same balancing act that is such a mix of contradiction and double talk.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

And of course that will be the excuse SF trots out when all these promises are not be delivered. Such as change and fighting back.

The optics are with SF at the moment as most of those in the ROI in particular Dublin - are ignorant to the government record of SF in NI. Even the most basic research on what SF have passed in NI shows them up.

Will SF go the way of Labour when the electorate realise their 1930's FF manifesto's could not be delivered?

At the moment SF are like an updated FF cover band.

The difference was with FF was they wrote the original's and were a much more popular band at than today's SF.

On top of that we are bound to have those other embarrassments to SF will pop up now and again. Of course these will be ignored and mention of them will be termed as 'Shinner bashing'.

Would you edit that to make sense? Like what does this mean?

The difference was with FF was they wrote the original's and were a much more popular band at than today's SF.

If any of the following SF, FF. FG, SD. GREENS, LABOUR etc get into government, every single one of them will be making compromises.

That is the essence of coalition and C&S. That is why 'manifesto's' were glossy brochures and wish lists.

If you knew anything about realpolitik, you would know that.

optogirl

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Low carbon footprint semtex?

No animals were harmed in the production of same.

https://mondoweiss.net/2019/09/veganism-palestinian-oppression/

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Exactly the problem is SF are stuck in a contradiction they glorify republican past, they love the pantomime of it.

Republican funerals and the like this panders to the working class disenfranchised and disillusioned.


That is what the republican dreamers like to think of the past. David Cullinane was creaming himself imagining he is the same as his heroes Bobby Sands and the H block lads. But yet SF do not want mentions of the past of things they find uncomfortable or will harm thier chances with the ROI electorate.


Meanwhile middle class Mary Lou from D6 in Rathgar says she cannot mammy them. The likes of Culinane and Ellis.

Mary Lou prefers to try and make SF appear less camouflaged and more progressive. This is the type of dressing up and pantomime she wants to be seen in.



I will give SF this no other party has to play the same balancing act that is such a mix of contradiction and double talk.

Gas craic!

To make a rambling point about contradictions in modern SF, you use a photo from the middle of a raging conflict/war in 1981 and counterpoint it with one from a Pride parade 21 years after the conflict/war ended with a Peace Agreement.

Well done Gormdubh, keep it up.