What have we come to

MrMusician18

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Leo, busy making excuses.



Quite an extraordinary statement really, when you think about it.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0212/1114778-varadkar-election/?fbclid=IwAR3u9k-iW5bKegbBTCNfZ5arSRoWZxvve2-POMPsvs6Qn_UpmRBpTehAqV0

Not really that extraordinary. SF had claimed it has won the election, so responsibility falls to them to form a government.

He knows full well that if they actually manage it, it will be a **** show, and normal service will resume. FG will not be able to regroup without time in opposition, to do what SF do best, hurl from the ditch.

Plumbthedepths

blanch152 wrote: »

I must say that I am enjoying the desperate spinning from Sinn Fein. They know that their tax policies would spook the markets and have no chance of raising the revenue promised and they also know that there was a big hole anyway in their numbers. They never expected to be in this position and the challenge of actual delivery is something that they didn't expect to face. It is one thing for Eoin O'Broin to sit in a tv studio and explain how he will do things differently, it is another to actually do it.

I was very interested in that chap from Finance last night who explained that the Sinn Fein idea of building 100,000 homes on State land doesn't work if there isn't enough State land.

So Sinn Fein are trying to spin now that FF and FG should play their part. Posters on here who have spent years shouting and screaming that "FFG" as they call it should be thrown out, are desperately saying that they have to step up. It is laughable and pathetic.

I'm sure you as a committed... ahem Green are delighted your party (ahem) may be in the position of Kingmaker. ;-)
Btw John Moran is not from finance, he's over the state land agency that hasn't had a chance to work yet as it's enabling legislation hadn't passed as Leo called an election.

Ush1

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I said just before we voted...whatever happens, things are changed fundamentally in the body politic going forward.

Anyone who voted for change needs to take a bow IMO.

*Slow clap*

They said the same about Obama.

"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I must say that I am enjoying the desperate spinning from Sinn Fein. They know that their tax policies would spook the markets and have no chance of raising the revenue promised and they also know that there was a big hole anyway in their numbers. They never expected to be in this position and the challenge of actual delivery is something that they didn't expect to face. It is one thing for Eoin O'Broin to sit in a tv studio and explain how he will do things differently, it is another to actually do it.

I was very interested in that chap from Finance last night who explained that the Sinn Fein idea of building 100,000 homes on State land doesn't work if there isn't enough State land.

So Sinn Fein are trying to spin now that FF and FG should play their part. Posters on here who have spent years shouting and screaming that "FFG" as they call it should be thrown out, are desperately saying that they have to step up. It is laughable and pathetic.

Doesn't bother me if they don't 'step up'.

We will just proceed directly to another election then.

Cupatae

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Doesn't bother me if they don't 'step up'.

We will just proceed directly to another election then.

I think if it goes to another election SF wont get the same reaction or success, gonna be difficult to do business internationally when you have candidates on tape roaring "UP THE RA!!" not a bright move.

FrancieBrady

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Not really that extraordinary. SF had claimed it has won the election, so responsibility falls to them to form a government.

He knows full well that if they actually manage it, it will be a **** show, and normal service will resume. FG will not be able to regroup without time in opposition, to do what SF do best, hurl from the ditch.

Or in other words, (that FG support might not want to use)...he abandons the 22% who wanted FG in government, even when there may be a path to government opening up to them. In coalition or C&S with a party they were quite happy to spend the last 4 years with.

FrancieBrady

Cupatae wrote: »

I think if it goes to another election SF wont get the same reaction or success, gonna be difficult to do business internationally when you have candidates on tape roaring "UP THE RA!!" not a bright move.

I don't know either. There certainly would be a lot of variables at play.

Brian?

Ush1 wrote: »

It's not just CEOs, it's investors. Look at the Corona virus, markets are effected by sentiment. Where do you think CEOs and investors get their news, true or otherwise?

Yeah, the coronavirus is a real economic impact. Entire cities are closed down. SF aren't even in government yet.

Cupatae

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't know either. There certainly would be a lot of variables at play.

The fact that some investors are pulling out at the mention of SF in power isnt a great sign either.

FrancieBrady

Ush1 wrote: »

*Slow clap*

They said the same about Obama.

"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"

Well I am on record here as saying I am not expecting SF to create a nirvana.

What I want is a fairer society weighted towards it's people, all it's people.

GreenandRed

blanch152 wrote: »

I must say that I am enjoying the desperate spinning from Sinn Fein. They know that their tax policies would spook the markets and have no chance of raising the revenue promised and they also know that there was a big hole anyway in their numbers. They never expected to be in this position and the challenge of actual delivery is something that they didn't expect to face. It is one thing for Eoin O'Broin to sit in a tv studio and explain how he will do things differently, it is another to actually do it.

I was very interested in that chap from Finance last night who explained that the Sinn Fein idea of building 100,000 homes on State land doesn't work if there isn't enough State land.

So Sinn Fein are trying to spin now that FF and FG should play their part. Posters on here who have spent years shouting and screaming that "FFG" as they call it should be thrown out, are desperately saying that they have to step up. It is laughable and pathetic.

What's pathetic is a hospital beds crisis which might be helped by improved scheduling using technology in a high tech economy.

And incentivising those who have plenty into buying new homes while perfectly good existing dwellings are ignored because banks and developers can't get as much coin from fixing these up.


While ass kissing multinationals with sweetheart deals bringing jobs here and further widening the gap between supply and demand in the housing market.

Markets fluctuating post election isn't new.

Not saying SF can do any better but it'd take them a while to do worse.

Do you have anything constructive to say about anything or just want to whinge with your keyboard?

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What are you on about?

Why don't you stop with the lies there too gormdubh. We know you are angry. No need to stoop to lies.

I am on about how you like to compartmentalize things the troubles in the distant past you said. They are gone. Yet to support your argument you brought up mention of armed men in the dail decades and decades before that.

I don't know. I didn't vote for the SF of the past, I voted for the SF that presented themselves for this election, as those who voted for FF at this election did not vote for the FF that turned up 'armed' to the Dáil.

Do people not judge politicians on thier past? From Maria Bailey, to CJ Haughey, to Jackie Healy-Rae.

You are telling me the votes for Dessie Ellis and O'Snodaigh in the ROI was not based on thier republican past?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dessie_Ellis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aengus_%C3%93_Snodaigh

(spy ring in DE forgotten about?)



If politicians are not judged on thier past actions how do the electorate vote for them?

You are telling me that people vote just because of something a politician might do rather than has done?

Look at the independents to move away from parties

Mick Wallace made his name on the back of building Wexford FC in the past

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_Wallace

Shane Ross his work in the Senand got him his TD seat in the past

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Ross#Early_life_and_career

Now lost his seat because of things in the past.

Are you getting it yet gormdubh? I mean the attempt to drag up victims and the past failed pretty spectacularly don't you think? You maybe should take Leo's lead here and 'reform' your stance.

The hear no evil, see no evil, nothing to see here line you are going with. OK

GreenandRed

Cupatae wrote: »

The fact that some investors are pulling out at the mention of SF in power isnt a great sign either.

Which investors?

Ush1

Brian? wrote: »

Yeah, the coronavirus is a real economic impact. Entire cities are closed down. SF aren't even in government yet.

Look at the Irish bank shares and REITs since the results. Economic impact is as real as the market shows.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/sinn-fein-surge-wipes-700m-off-aib-and-boi-38945672.html

Its hardly surprising. Unfortunately most of those banks major shareholders are us.

Plumbthedepths

Cupatae wrote: »

The fact that some investors are pulling out at the mention of SF in power isnt a great sign either.

So do we install a government at the behest of investors, or do we still go the democratic route and let the voters have a say?

Cupatae

GreenandRed wrote: »

Which investors?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/markets/irish-shares-tumble-on-sinn-f%C3%A9in-surge-1.4168853

Cupatae

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So do we install a government at the behest of investors, or do we still go the democratic route and let the voters have a say?

Im just saying if it goes to the polls again these could be potentially damaging to SF. That nnd having candidates roaring up the Ra ect isnt gonna help the situation either.

Ush1

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well I am on record here as saying I am not expecting SF to create a nirvana.

What I want is a fairer society weighted towards it's people, all it's people.

I personally thought LPT is one of the fairest taxes out there. To be honest I wouldn't be too troubled if it was raised as long as it funded the right things.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Capacity to build was an issue, it still is.

This is being ramped up and whoever is in government over the next few years will reap the benefits of the increase in apprenticeships over the last two or three years.

So where was all the ppp being built and who was building them? Same for the apartments we put 25 year leases on? We'd a report the other week about all the vacant public land too. These were all used as excuses to use private entities. Its over now hopefully

GreenandRed

Cupatae wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/markets/irish-shares-tumble-on-sinn-f%C3%A9in-surge-1.4168853

Excuse me now for not having much sympathy for banks and develipers.

Cupatae

GreenandRed wrote: »

Excuse me now for not having much sympathy for banks and develipers.

Oh im the same ive no sympathy for em, but to brush it off as not important is daft.

Ush1

GreenandRed wrote: »

Excuse me now for not having much sympathy for banks and develipers.

The banks we own? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well I am on record here as saying I am not expecting SF to create a nirvana.

What I want is a fairer society weighted towards it's people, all it's people.

Don't look at the NI record so

https://inequality.org/research/sinn-fein-austerity-record/

Oh and you did not use the word nirvana - but you are hanging your hat on change.

SF are turning into one of the Billy Goats gruff.

They have eaten all grass in NI, and are crossing bridge to the ROI.

Mary Lou will try and make sure thier other parties FF FG get eaten by the troll (the ROI electorate)

GreenandRed

Cupatae wrote: »

Oh im the same ive no sympathy for em, but to brush it off as not important is daft.

Daft.ie ?

Not saying it's not important. If SF do get to implement some of their housing proposals they surely expect and plan for such a reaction. For me it's past time banks and developers stopped acting like they run the country and government, of whatever parties, hold them to account.

GreenandRed

Ush1 wrote: »

The banks we own? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Which 'we'? Not the families paying extortionate rents trying to get a deposit. If they ever manage the deposit they get 2 or 3 % back from the banks to be repaid plus interest. Why not a smaller deposit to get them into the market for a cheaper house? Banks don't give a f**k about customer, their shareholders care even less.

storker

Ush1 wrote: »

I personally thought LPT is one of the fairest taxes out there. To be honest I wouldn't be too troubled if it was raised as long as it funded the right things.

I always thought it was unfair, as it takes no account of ability to pay.

Cupatae

GreenandRed wrote: »

Daft.ie ?

Not saying it's not important. If SF do get to implement some of their housing proposals they surely expect and plan for such a reaction. For me it's past time banks and developers stopped acting like they run the country and government, of whatever parties, hold them to account.

I dunno it ll be interesting too see how it all plays out anyway, i guess time will tell all!

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am on about how you like to compartmentalize things the troubles in the distant past you said. They are gone. Yet to support your argument you brought up mention of armed men in the dail decades and decades before that.



Do people not judge politicians on thier past? From Maria Bailey, to CJ Haughey, to Jackie Healy-Rae.

You are telling me the votes for Dessie Ellis and O'Snodaigh in the ROI was not based on thier republican past?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dessie_Ellis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aengus_%C3%93_Snodaigh

(spy ring in DE forgotten about?)
If politicians are not judged on thier past actions how do the electorate vote for them?
Look at the independents to move away from parties

Mick Wallace made his name on the back of building Wexford FC in the past

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_Wallace

Shane Ross his work in the Senand got him his TD seat in the past

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Ross#Early_life_and_career

Now lost his seat because of things in the past.




The hear no evil, see no evil, nothing to see here line you are going with. OK

You will need to ask those who voted for D.Ellis and O'Snodaigh what influenced their vote.
You are the poster who is positing the theory that the young voter/new SF doesn't know about the 'past' now you seem to be saying they are voting for them 'because' of their past.

Could you stick to one theory or the other and stop bouncing around?

gormdubhgorm

GreenandRed wrote: »

Which 'we'? Not the families paying extortionate rents trying to get a deposit. If they ever manage the deposit they get 2 or 3 % back from the banks to be repaid plus interest. Why not a smaller deposit to get them into the market for a cheaper house? Banks don't give a f**k about customer, their shareholders care even less.

Shane Ross agrees with you and supported the FG government - yet he did not get re-elected

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Ross

MrMusician18

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Or in other words, (that FG support might not want to use)...he abandons the 22% who wanted FG in government, even when there may be a path to government opening up to them. In coalition or C&S with a party they were quite happy to spend the last 4 years with.

Correct. But for a route for FG to come to power, it would equally mean that SF have abandoned the 24% that voted for them. They did win the election after all.