What have we come to

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They do at the moment, but they have little choice now thier surprise increase has shocked them, they might never be as high again. The electorate might never be as gullible again.

And the 'electorate' might have realised it is actually the power broker in the country.

That's why the result is called 'seismic'.

Who knows.

holyhead

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They do at the moment, but they have little choice now thier surprise increase has shocked them, they might never be as high again. The electorate might never be as gullible again.

I think that is a little bit unfair on the electorate. Sf's vote is one of disillusionment by voters of the traditional duopoly. SF I think need to get into government for their own sake. Their will be anger if they don't. If they make a balls of being in government then they will be slaughtered for it. I think their best outcome would be another election on the basis no government can be formed.
I'm expecting Fianna Fail to go into government with them. If so the question of Taoiseach could be interesting.

gormdubhgorm

Cupatae wrote: »

I don't think you understand what the word fraud means, and Infairness for the most part , you are either throwing out hollow answers , deflecting or just outright **** slinging , your on about scoring point ? Points for what ?

Calling everyone and anyone Mongo's frauds and liars that aren't on the same hymn sheet as you.

All the while writing off the negatives of SF as " Abit of baggage" lol that's a stretch even for those that want to believe...

Yep spot on sure I have said all these things to Matt Barrett myself.

This is a fella who can't see any wrong in SF one of the indoctrinated.

He also voted Aengus Ó Snodaigh who had his cronies spying in the dail back in 2004. They were convicted

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/paul-williams-ira-spy-ring-watching-leinster-house-holds-the-key-to-sinn-feins-outlook-34309820.html

O'Snodaigh the fella who makes good use of the dail printers (2012)

https://web.archive.org/web/20120301073302/http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0228/osnodaigha.html

Yet Matt Barrett AOS and SF supporter shouts fraud and liar at everyone else.....

O'Snodaigh is also a man who compared Alan Shatter to Goebbels! Comparing a Jewish man to a Nazi 2009. Stay classy Aengus!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fg-leader-demands-nazi-jibe-retraction-26505874.html

GreenandRed

holyhead wrote: »

I think that is a little bit unfair on the electorate. Sf's vote is one of disillusionment by voters of the traditional duopoly. SF I think need to get into government for their own sake. Their will be anger if they don't. If they make a balls of being in government then they will be slaughtered for it. I think their best outcome would be another election on the basis no government can be formed.
I'm expecting Fianna Fail to go into government with them. If so the question of Taoiseach could be interesting.

Like the infamous Spring Tide that sunk the Labour Party. Different times niw, youth more inclined to vote and more clued-in, researching candidates.

James Brown

Cupatae wrote: »

I don't think you understand what the word fraud means, and Infairness for the most part , you are either throwing out hollow answers , deflecting or just outright **** slinging , your on about scoring point ? Points for what ?

Calling everyone and anyone Mongo's frauds and liars that aren't on the same hymn sheet as you.

All the while writing off the negatives of SF as " Abit of baggage" lol that's a stretch even for those that want to believe...

False representation. 'Fraud' is handier.
Not everyone, just people who are more interested in their party than the country or discussing the country. It's explained in the same comment.
Comrade, you've not once spoke on policy it's all armchair psychology and smart arsery.
At this point I don't even care if you have a comment on how the British view us and our election in relation to Brexit.

James Brown

Ush1 wrote: »

You really are missing the point of this thread.

Ignoring discussion to get the shinners? Pretty sad thread.

holyhead

What boggles my mind is the hold on power that Adams/McGuinness had on the leadership of SF for so long. I can't recall anyone sticking their head above the parapet to replace either. Obviously given the stunning election result here in the republic I don't expect Mary Lou to be challenged anytime soon. But it will be interesting to see if she is eventually challenged. Not a lot is known about how SF operate. What influence does Adams have in the party now? Is Mary Lou an actual leader or a more acceptable front for Adams?

While SF understandably bask in electoral glory they will be under the spotlight like never before.

hatrickpatrick

Gynoid wrote: »

Gerry Adams as late as 2018 said violent tactics can be justified in certain cases.

So should the Irish have written a strongly worded letter to the British state in 1918 as opposed to taking up arms against them? Bearing in mind that the War of Independence only came about after repeated attempts to solve the home rule issue through the legislative process were blocked for one reason or another by the British government?

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yep spot on sure I have said all these things to Matt Barrett myself.

This is a fella who can't see any wrong in SF one of the indoctrinated.

He also voted Aengus Ó Snodaigh who had his cronies spying in the dail back in 2004. They were convicted

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/paul-williams-ira-spy-ring-watching-leinster-house-holds-the-key-to-sinn-feins-outlook-34309820.html

O'Snodaigh the fella who makes good use of the dail printers (2012)

https://web.archive.org/web/20120301073302/http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0228/osnodaigha.html

Yet Matt Barrett AOS and SF supporter shouts fraud and liar at everyone else.....

O'Snodaigh is also a man who compared Alan Shatter to Goebbels! Comparing a Jewish man to a Nazi 2009. Stay classy Aengus!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fg-leader-demands-nazi-jibe-retraction-26505874.html

If you stopped lying I wouldn't call you a liar.
I highlighted two lies for you there.

Lads you got shown the door. Dry your eyes.

Cupatae

Matt Barrett wrote: »

False representation. 'Fraud' is handier.
Not everyone, just people who are more interested in their party than the country or discussing the country. It's explained in the same comment.
Comrade, you've not once spoke on policy it's all armchair psychology and smart arsery.
At this point I don't even care if you have a comment on how the British view us and our election in relation to Brexit.

How can you speak policy with someone that deems anything that goes against there views as a "waste of time " remember the first comment when I attempted to engage in discussing the current agenda , and your retort was it's a waste of time ECT fraud ect?

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

gormdubhgorm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

If you stopped lying I wouldn't call you a liar.
I highlighted two lies for you there.

Sorry Matt wrong again two of O'Snodaigh's henchmen were convicted

Bennett was a former secretary of a south Dublin Sinn Féin cumann. Bennett and Donohoe were found guilty of membership of the IRA, an illegal organisation in the Republic of Ireland, and sentenced each to four years in prison.

Niall Bennett (aka Binead) and Keith Donohoe, who both held dual membership of Sinn Féin and the IRA, were involved in the spying operation targeting several politicians, including three former Ministers for Justice.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/sinn-fein-men-jailed-for-ira-membership-1.1168054

Also you have said nothing negative in this thread against SF, and your previous post above proves it.

Deny deflect and now you call liar!

Brendan Bendar

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Candidate, not candidates. Still he was a gob****e for doing it.
Investors always watch potential new governments and policies. Democracy has to be blind to such considerations as to the feelings of investors though.

Raise you a “go ****e against a “prole”.

gormdubhgorm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

If you stopped lying I wouldn't call you a liar.
I highlighted two lies for you there.

Lads you got shown the door. Dry your eyes.

What you did was highlight two truths as lies.

1) two of AOS cronies were convicted and served four years = true.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/sinn-fein-men-jailed-for-ira-membership-1.1168054

2) You do not say anything negative about SF = true. (see number 1 as reference)

holyhead

Was it the bould Aengus doing all the printing?

gormdubhgorm

holyhead wrote: »

Was it the bould Aengus doing all the printing?

That was implied Mary Lou said he did not know it was that expensive 50k of ink used over two years..... :rolleyes:

Edgware

Matt Barrett wrote: »

False representation. 'Fraud' is handier.
Not everyone, just people who are more interested in their party than the country or discussing the country. It's explained in the same comment.
Comrade, you've not once spoke on policy it's all armchair psychology and smart arsery.
At this point I don't even care if you have a comment on how the British view us and our election in relation to Brexit.

"Comrade"= Useful idiot

hatrickpatrick

pgj2015 wrote: »

You would think we were a third world country or something, do ye not realize you are living in one of richest countries in the world? the standard of living here is up there with the best countries in the world.

all this nonsense you hear about all the homeless people in Ireland, a lot of them have mental problems and choose to live on the streets, the others who live in hotels yet keep having kids even though they have no jobs, well thats their own fault for being so stupid.

Most people I know who were in college in the early 2010s had an easier time making rent on part time incomes than they do now with established careers several years out of college. The cost of living has vastly outstripped take-home pay during the period in which FG have led the Irish government, that fact cannot be denied, and they have done nothing to address it. FG and FF are intentionally prolonging the housing crisis because they represent the class who already have a foot on the ladder. Those who've watched the ladder being pulled up and away and leaving them behind have no interest in voting for the smug f*ckers like Eoghan Murphy or Leo Varadkar who very thinly veil their delight that the property investment class are having such an easy time screwing the younger generation and milking obscene amounts of money out of them. So we won't vote for them. It's really not complicated.

Balf wrote: »

She might be a nice old dear. But what you've described is actually a stupid reason for voting SF.


But, indeed, it is a product of the political system not finding a positive path.

It's really not. FF created the health crisis and FG have done absolutely f*ck all to fix it, of course people who are suffering because of that crisis are turning to other parties to fix it.

gormdubhgorm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

no interest in voting for the smug f*ckers like Eoghan Murphy or Leo Varadkar who very thinly veil their delight that the property investment class are having such an easy time screwing the younger generation and milking obscene amounts of money out of them. So we won't vote for them. It's really not complicated.

You do realise SF supporters can be landlords as well? I know one of them who makes his living from properties and always votes SF. From Donegal nice fella.

Plus two thirds of landlords only own one property

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/the-rent-report/the-accidental-landlords-most-own-just-one-property-31304758.html

dwmcdos

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That was implied Mary Lou said he did not know it was that expensive 50k of ink used over two years..... :rolleyes:

Tbf if he was using a dail printer that's probably only about 10 pages of black and white.

hatrickpatrick

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You do realise SF supporters can be landlords as well? I know one of them who makes his living from properties and always votes SF. From Donegal nice fella.

Plus two thirds of landlords only own one property

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/the-rent-report/the-accidental-landlords-most-own-just-one-property-31304758.html

Of course I know that. I just know that FFG represent these people at the expense of everyone else, and SF at least claim not to. We'll only know for sure after they've been in government, but how difficult is it to understand that voting for a party which might favour lowering the ladder at the expense of those already on it is clearly a better option than voting for a party which is openly ok with how the ladder has been pulled up, because they regard those already on it as their main constituents as opposed to SF who at least claim to regard those not on it as their main constituents?

Of course it's a gamble as to whether they'll deliver. But FFG definitely won't because they don't even pretend to give a f*ck. Eoghan Murphy's comments with regard to what hard working young people should be willing to accept in terms of housing, and how much they should be willing to fork over in exchange for it, have been absolutely, nauseatingly repulsive ("boutique hotels" etc) so it's very clear that he and his ilk don't actually want a paradigm of lowered house prices and rents, they're more than happy to see people being required to pay more and more for less and less return. We already know FF is the same because of how gleefully they fuelled the property boom in the 2000s. SF might end up be bullsh!tting about being different, of course! But at least they might actually be different.

For young people trapped in a paradigm of providing welfare for the rich by paying exorbitant rents to greedy gobsh!tes, the possibility that SF might make things worse even though they claim to want to make things better is a hell of a lot more attractive than voting for either big party who very openly want things to get worse and want young people to just "suck it up and get used to it" in terms of paying more and more for crappier and crappier living conditions. So we took a gamble. Let's see how it pays off.

Full disclosure BTW, I'm not an SF voter myself - I'll always vote PBP first. In this case I voted #1 Richard Boyd Barrett and #2 Eoin O'Brien (Sinn Fein). Obviously Richard's transfers couldn't help Eoin O'Brien out (we're a funny constituency like that, where you can top the poll by a large enough margin but not get elected until the third or fourth seat by which time your potential transfers have been eliminated) but I fully understand and appreciate why pretty much every young person I know from every socioeconomic demographic (I'm talking dozens upon dozens of my friends here, almost everyone I know on Facebook or Twitter, etc) voted for Sinn Fein. They are sick of being asked to pay extortionate rents for shoebox apartments and a political party which will champion kitchenless studios priced at €1400 per month as "progress" are seen as absolute scum by those who are either seeing their take-home pay decimated by the cost of housing, or still living at home in their thirties despite having good, well paying, hard working jobs because they can't afford to rent anywhere.

FFG are seen as the parties who prioritise the greedy over the needy. SF at least claim to be the opposite. Ergo, they are popular among young people who are overwhelmingly falling into the latter camp - regardless of whether we come from well off, "posh" families or working class families - when it comes to trying to leave the nest and make it on our own. All we're looking for is a party which wants to reduce the cost of living, and FFG are openly gleeful about how it's increasing because it benefits the small subset of society they choose to appeal to. That's their right in a democratic society, but it would be nice if they and their supporters who call young people stupid, naive or immature would just f*ck off.

jonnny68

rtron wrote: »

Let's just get it over with.
Vote them in.
Watch them feck up the country.
Then revote FF in 4 or 7 years whatever it is.

what like Fine Gael and Fianna Fail and Labour have consistenly done over the last few years,they have decimated this country, and finally people have woken up and voted for change.

Some amount of bitterness from FG/FF hacks and lackeys who are still in denial, the majority of people voted for real change instead of snouts in the trough, brown envelopes, cute hoorism, bank bailouts,etc,etc the long list of utter shame goes on and on.

Bill 2.0

jonnny68 wrote: »

they have decimated this country

3rd ranked country on the HDI.


This country isn't "decimated".

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Sorry Matt wrong again two of O'Snodaigh's henchmen were convicted
.......
Also you have said nothing negative in this thread against SF, and your previous post above proves it.

Deny deflect and now you call liar!

Are you not reading or pretending you're not reading.
Never voted O'Snodaigh. You only know his name in relation to me because I posted a few times how I won't vote for him.
You're just using anything to have a pop at SF. Be honest and just have a pop at them. No need to try weasel the digs in.
I've not said anything negative about the policies of the party who has policies I like no, that would be weird.
Try again.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

What you did was highlight two truths as lies.

1) two of AOS cronies were convicted and served four years = true.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/sinn-fein-men-jailed-for-ira-membership-1.1168054

2) You do not say anything negative about SF = true. (see number 1 as reference)

No time for him. That's why I don't vote for him. Is that a two fer? I mean that could be considered a negative right?
What do I win :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

it must be varadkar on here with multiple of those sock puppet accounts that he proposed! who else could defend Fg? they take FIFTY percent of your income over a pittance!

Calhoun

holyhead wrote: »

What boggles my mind is the hold on power that Adams/McGuinness had on the leadership of SF for so long. I can't recall anyone sticking their head above the parapet to replace either. Obviously given the stunning election result here in the republic I don't expect Mary Lou to be challenged anytime soon. But it will be interesting to see if she is eventually challenged. Not a lot is known about how SF operate. What influence does Adams have in the party now? Is Mary Lou an actual leader or a more acceptable front for Adams?

While SF understandably bask in electoral glory they will be under the spotlight like never before.

I think the problem SF have is the selection process is basically a bit off, its supposed to be open and transparent but there wasn't really a competition for it.

Cupatae

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Low level trolling.
While I think your wan looks cute, just because I don't like FG policies or their record in government and I like some of SF's, I'm not in the 'RA or what ever.
You might recall this all bounced off a post I put up about John Simpson of the BBC thinking Brexit is why we voted the way we did? Hard to imagine. I might be arguing with someone missed their nap and is terrible cranky.



No worries comrade.

That was a fairly vulture like radio interview , regardless of what someone does..having a free for all on a radio show is Abit tasteless

gormdubhgorm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Never voted O'Snodaigh. You only know his name in relation to me because I posted a few times how I won't vote for him.

Not true I am well aware of the fella he is exactly what is wrong with the culture of SF.

You're just using anything to have a pop at SF. Be honest and just have a pop at them. No need to try weasel the digs in.

SF have done so much things way wrong it hard to keep track of them all.
Most people forget them and they blow over. Most would be career ending stuff for normal politicians. But on the SF scale it ends up enhancing thier image. Paddy Holohan is the rare exception. Where it became indefensible.

I've not said anything negative about the policies of the party who has policies I like no, that would be weird.

Nobody agrees with all the policies of a party there are always some that are tweaked or amended.

Lots of them in SF's case changed overtime -

From when they were the equivalent of today's dissidents
To now power sharing with the DUP and entering the dail.

The whole 'culture' of SF stinks from top to bottom in my view and they need a root and branch cleanout.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:p84SQzxKYksJ:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%25C3%25A9in-loses-13-public-representatives-over-bullying-claims-1.3381372+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

But it is SF 'policy' to not only keep such people but have them run for election!

I would call it he 'gouger quota'. In SF it is definitely much higher than any other party in the dail.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Not true I am well aware of the fella he is exactly what is wrong with the culture of SF.



SF have done so much things way wrong it hard to keep track of them all.
Most people forget them and they blow over. Most would be career ending stuff for normal politicians. But on the SF scale it ends up enhancing thier image. Paddy Holohan is the rare exception. Where it became indefensible.



Nobody agrees with all the policies of a party there are always some that are tweaked or amended.

Lots of them in SF's case changed overtime -

From when they were the equivalent of today's dissidents
To now power sharing with the DUP and entering the dail.

The whole 'culture' of SF stinks from top to bottom in my view and they need a root and branch cleanout.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:p84SQzxKYksJ:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%25C3%25A9in-loses-13-public-representatives-over-bullying-claims-1.3381372+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

But it is SF 'policy' to not only keep such people but have them run for election!

I said it to you earlier - if you cannot satisfy yourself about SF (or any party) DON'T VOTE FOR THEM.

shesty

Calhoun wrote: »

I think the problem SF have is the selection process is basically a bit off, its supposed to be open and transparent but there wasn't really a competition for it.

There was an article written a couple of weeks ago and this was one of the things discussed...I don't always agree with Dan O'Brien, but what he said made good sense in this one (before the election). The text around the election of a leader was as follows:

"Yet another illustration of how different Sinn Féin is, is its leadership and how it is chosen. Democratic political parties tend towards internal chaos. Rivalries abound when a lot of ambitious people with different views on policies and presentation come together. Well developed egos clash. Nowhere is all this more in evidence than when party leadership positions become vacant.

It was far from evident when Gerry Adams stood down as Sinn Féin leader two years ago. A normal democratic party would have had multiple candidates throwing their hats in the ring, particularly as it had been 35 years since the last change of leadership. Only one candidate emerged. Again, there are no parallels in democratic Europe of a party being led - unchallenged - for a third of a century and a new leader being elected without a contest."

The rest of the article is here, for anyone interested:

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/greatest-threat-posed-by-sinn-fein-isnt-to-the-economy-its-to-our-democratic-fabric-38931659.html

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I said it to you earlier - if you cannot satisfy yourself about SF (or any party) DON'T VOTE FOR THEM.

I don't but you seem to gloss over all these issues with ah kind of 'ah sure SF will be SF' as if it is expected. You give them loads of leeway.

Catheine Noone's serious political career ended when she called Leo Vaadkar autistic, and then said it is all about context people talk about n!ggers.

When O'Snodaigh of SF called Alan Shatter - Goebells it only seemed to enhance his!

When Culliane and Ellis were making eejits of themselves with the 'up the ra' and get out you black and tans not a single reprimand from Mary Lou.
All we got is I am not thier mammy!

I am sure many SF supporters are having a great laugh over it.

It is true Paddy Holohan was 'suspended' from the party.
But only because I feel what he said about women upset Mary Lou personally. Plus it did the women's SF vote no harm by seeming to take action.

Gerry Adams and his contradictory statements between Primetime v in court - over his nieces abuse by his brother. If it was any other party a motion of confidence, would be placed against Gerry and his leadership would have been challenged.