What have we come to

hatrickpatrick

pgj2015 wrote: »

You would think we were a third world country or something, do ye not realize you are living in one of richest countries in the world? the standard of living here is up there with the best countries in the world.

all this nonsense you hear about all the homeless people in Ireland, a lot of them have mental problems and choose to live on the streets, the others who live in hotels yet keep having kids even though they have no jobs, well thats their own fault for being so stupid.

Most people I know who were in college in the early 2010s had an easier time making rent on part time incomes than they do now with established careers several years out of college. The cost of living has vastly outstripped take-home pay during the period in which FG have led the Irish government, that fact cannot be denied, and they have done nothing to address it. FG and FF are intentionally prolonging the housing crisis because they represent the class who already have a foot on the ladder. Those who've watched the ladder being pulled up and away and leaving them behind have no interest in voting for the smug f*ckers like Eoghan Murphy or Leo Varadkar who very thinly veil their delight that the property investment class are having such an easy time screwing the younger generation and milking obscene amounts of money out of them. So we won't vote for them. It's really not complicated.

Balf wrote: »

She might be a nice old dear. But what you've described is actually a stupid reason for voting SF.


But, indeed, it is a product of the political system not finding a positive path.

It's really not. FF created the health crisis and FG have done absolutely f*ck all to fix it, of course people who are suffering because of that crisis are turning to other parties to fix it.

gormdubhgorm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

no interest in voting for the smug f*ckers like Eoghan Murphy or Leo Varadkar who very thinly veil their delight that the property investment class are having such an easy time screwing the younger generation and milking obscene amounts of money out of them. So we won't vote for them. It's really not complicated.

You do realise SF supporters can be landlords as well? I know one of them who makes his living from properties and always votes SF. From Donegal nice fella.

Plus two thirds of landlords only own one property

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/the-rent-report/the-accidental-landlords-most-own-just-one-property-31304758.html

dwmcdos

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That was implied Mary Lou said he did not know it was that expensive 50k of ink used over two years..... :rolleyes:

Tbf if he was using a dail printer that's probably only about 10 pages of black and white.

hatrickpatrick

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You do realise SF supporters can be landlords as well? I know one of them who makes his living from properties and always votes SF. From Donegal nice fella.

Plus two thirds of landlords only own one property

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/the-rent-report/the-accidental-landlords-most-own-just-one-property-31304758.html

Of course I know that. I just know that FFG represent these people at the expense of everyone else, and SF at least claim not to. We'll only know for sure after they've been in government, but how difficult is it to understand that voting for a party which might favour lowering the ladder at the expense of those already on it is clearly a better option than voting for a party which is openly ok with how the ladder has been pulled up, because they regard those already on it as their main constituents as opposed to SF who at least claim to regard those not on it as their main constituents?

Of course it's a gamble as to whether they'll deliver. But FFG definitely won't because they don't even pretend to give a f*ck. Eoghan Murphy's comments with regard to what hard working young people should be willing to accept in terms of housing, and how much they should be willing to fork over in exchange for it, have been absolutely, nauseatingly repulsive ("boutique hotels" etc) so it's very clear that he and his ilk don't actually want a paradigm of lowered house prices and rents, they're more than happy to see people being required to pay more and more for less and less return. We already know FF is the same because of how gleefully they fuelled the property boom in the 2000s. SF might end up be bullsh!tting about being different, of course! But at least they might actually be different.

For young people trapped in a paradigm of providing welfare for the rich by paying exorbitant rents to greedy gobsh!tes, the possibility that SF might make things worse even though they claim to want to make things better is a hell of a lot more attractive than voting for either big party who very openly want things to get worse and want young people to just "suck it up and get used to it" in terms of paying more and more for crappier and crappier living conditions. So we took a gamble. Let's see how it pays off.

Full disclosure BTW, I'm not an SF voter myself - I'll always vote PBP first. In this case I voted #1 Richard Boyd Barrett and #2 Eoin O'Brien (Sinn Fein). Obviously Richard's transfers couldn't help Eoin O'Brien out (we're a funny constituency like that, where you can top the poll by a large enough margin but not get elected until the third or fourth seat by which time your potential transfers have been eliminated) but I fully understand and appreciate why pretty much every young person I know from every socioeconomic demographic (I'm talking dozens upon dozens of my friends here, almost everyone I know on Facebook or Twitter, etc) voted for Sinn Fein. They are sick of being asked to pay extortionate rents for shoebox apartments and a political party which will champion kitchenless studios priced at €1400 per month as "progress" are seen as absolute scum by those who are either seeing their take-home pay decimated by the cost of housing, or still living at home in their thirties despite having good, well paying, hard working jobs because they can't afford to rent anywhere.

FFG are seen as the parties who prioritise the greedy over the needy. SF at least claim to be the opposite. Ergo, they are popular among young people who are overwhelmingly falling into the latter camp - regardless of whether we come from well off, "posh" families or working class families - when it comes to trying to leave the nest and make it on our own. All we're looking for is a party which wants to reduce the cost of living, and FFG are openly gleeful about how it's increasing because it benefits the small subset of society they choose to appeal to. That's their right in a democratic society, but it would be nice if they and their supporters who call young people stupid, naive or immature would just f*ck off.

jonnny68

rtron wrote: »

Let's just get it over with.
Vote them in.
Watch them feck up the country.
Then revote FF in 4 or 7 years whatever it is.

what like Fine Gael and Fianna Fail and Labour have consistenly done over the last few years,they have decimated this country, and finally people have woken up and voted for change.

Some amount of bitterness from FG/FF hacks and lackeys who are still in denial, the majority of people voted for real change instead of snouts in the trough, brown envelopes, cute hoorism, bank bailouts,etc,etc the long list of utter shame goes on and on.

Bill 2.0

jonnny68 wrote: »

they have decimated this country

3rd ranked country on the HDI.


This country isn't "decimated".

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Sorry Matt wrong again two of O'Snodaigh's henchmen were convicted
.......
Also you have said nothing negative in this thread against SF, and your previous post above proves it.

Deny deflect and now you call liar!

Are you not reading or pretending you're not reading.
Never voted O'Snodaigh. You only know his name in relation to me because I posted a few times how I won't vote for him.
You're just using anything to have a pop at SF. Be honest and just have a pop at them. No need to try weasel the digs in.
I've not said anything negative about the policies of the party who has policies I like no, that would be weird.
Try again.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

What you did was highlight two truths as lies.

1) two of AOS cronies were convicted and served four years = true.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/sinn-fein-men-jailed-for-ira-membership-1.1168054

2) You do not say anything negative about SF = true. (see number 1 as reference)

No time for him. That's why I don't vote for him. Is that a two fer? I mean that could be considered a negative right?
What do I win :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

it must be varadkar on here with multiple of those sock puppet accounts that he proposed! who else could defend Fg? they take FIFTY percent of your income over a pittance!

Calhoun

holyhead wrote: »

What boggles my mind is the hold on power that Adams/McGuinness had on the leadership of SF for so long. I can't recall anyone sticking their head above the parapet to replace either. Obviously given the stunning election result here in the republic I don't expect Mary Lou to be challenged anytime soon. But it will be interesting to see if she is eventually challenged. Not a lot is known about how SF operate. What influence does Adams have in the party now? Is Mary Lou an actual leader or a more acceptable front for Adams?

While SF understandably bask in electoral glory they will be under the spotlight like never before.

I think the problem SF have is the selection process is basically a bit off, its supposed to be open and transparent but there wasn't really a competition for it.

Cupatae

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Low level trolling.
While I think your wan looks cute, just because I don't like FG policies or their record in government and I like some of SF's, I'm not in the 'RA or what ever.
You might recall this all bounced off a post I put up about John Simpson of the BBC thinking Brexit is why we voted the way we did? Hard to imagine. I might be arguing with someone missed their nap and is terrible cranky.



No worries comrade.

That was a fairly vulture like radio interview , regardless of what someone does..having a free for all on a radio show is Abit tasteless

gormdubhgorm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Never voted O'Snodaigh. You only know his name in relation to me because I posted a few times how I won't vote for him.

Not true I am well aware of the fella he is exactly what is wrong with the culture of SF.

You're just using anything to have a pop at SF. Be honest and just have a pop at them. No need to try weasel the digs in.

SF have done so much things way wrong it hard to keep track of them all.
Most people forget them and they blow over. Most would be career ending stuff for normal politicians. But on the SF scale it ends up enhancing thier image. Paddy Holohan is the rare exception. Where it became indefensible.

I've not said anything negative about the policies of the party who has policies I like no, that would be weird.

Nobody agrees with all the policies of a party there are always some that are tweaked or amended.

Lots of them in SF's case changed overtime -

From when they were the equivalent of today's dissidents
To now power sharing with the DUP and entering the dail.

The whole 'culture' of SF stinks from top to bottom in my view and they need a root and branch cleanout.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:p84SQzxKYksJ:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%25C3%25A9in-loses-13-public-representatives-over-bullying-claims-1.3381372+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

But it is SF 'policy' to not only keep such people but have them run for election!

I would call it he 'gouger quota'. In SF it is definitely much higher than any other party in the dail.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Not true I am well aware of the fella he is exactly what is wrong with the culture of SF.



SF have done so much things way wrong it hard to keep track of them all.
Most people forget them and they blow over. Most would be career ending stuff for normal politicians. But on the SF scale it ends up enhancing thier image. Paddy Holohan is the rare exception. Where it became indefensible.



Nobody agrees with all the policies of a party there are always some that are tweaked or amended.

Lots of them in SF's case changed overtime -

From when they were the equivalent of today's dissidents
To now power sharing with the DUP and entering the dail.

The whole 'culture' of SF stinks from top to bottom in my view and they need a root and branch cleanout.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:p84SQzxKYksJ:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%25C3%25A9in-loses-13-public-representatives-over-bullying-claims-1.3381372+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

But it is SF 'policy' to not only keep such people but have them run for election!

I said it to you earlier - if you cannot satisfy yourself about SF (or any party) DON'T VOTE FOR THEM.

shesty

Calhoun wrote: »

I think the problem SF have is the selection process is basically a bit off, its supposed to be open and transparent but there wasn't really a competition for it.

There was an article written a couple of weeks ago and this was one of the things discussed...I don't always agree with Dan O'Brien, but what he said made good sense in this one (before the election). The text around the election of a leader was as follows:

"Yet another illustration of how different Sinn Féin is, is its leadership and how it is chosen. Democratic political parties tend towards internal chaos. Rivalries abound when a lot of ambitious people with different views on policies and presentation come together. Well developed egos clash. Nowhere is all this more in evidence than when party leadership positions become vacant.

It was far from evident when Gerry Adams stood down as Sinn Féin leader two years ago. A normal democratic party would have had multiple candidates throwing their hats in the ring, particularly as it had been 35 years since the last change of leadership. Only one candidate emerged. Again, there are no parallels in democratic Europe of a party being led - unchallenged - for a third of a century and a new leader being elected without a contest."

The rest of the article is here, for anyone interested:

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/greatest-threat-posed-by-sinn-fein-isnt-to-the-economy-its-to-our-democratic-fabric-38931659.html

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I said it to you earlier - if you cannot satisfy yourself about SF (or any party) DON'T VOTE FOR THEM.

I don't but you seem to gloss over all these issues with ah kind of 'ah sure SF will be SF' as if it is expected. You give them loads of leeway.

Catheine Noone's serious political career ended when she called Leo Vaadkar autistic, and then said it is all about context people talk about n!ggers.

When O'Snodaigh of SF called Alan Shatter - Goebells it only seemed to enhance his!

When Culliane and Ellis were making eejits of themselves with the 'up the ra' and get out you black and tans not a single reprimand from Mary Lou.
All we got is I am not thier mammy!

I am sure many SF supporters are having a great laugh over it.

It is true Paddy Holohan was 'suspended' from the party.
But only because I feel what he said about women upset Mary Lou personally. Plus it did the women's SF vote no harm by seeming to take action.

Gerry Adams and his contradictory statements between Primetime v in court - over his nieces abuse by his brother. If it was any other party a motion of confidence, would be placed against Gerry and his leadership would have been challenged.

FrancieBrady

What have we come to? You might ask that again this evening.
The same broad cross section of social media that told me something seismic was going to happen in the election ain't reacting well to Leo's huff and departure to opposition.
Cullinane got some flak but it has largely died down now. Leo managing to get the attention on himself again.

holyhead

shesty wrote: »

There was an article written a couple of weeks ago and this was one of the things discussed...I don't always agree with Dan O'Brien, but what he said made good sense in this one (before the election). The text around the election of a leader was as follows:

"Yet another illustration of how different Sinn Féin is, is its leadership and how it is chosen. Democratic political parties tend towards internal chaos. Rivalries abound when a lot of ambitious people with different views on policies and presentation come together. Well developed egos clash. Nowhere is all this more in evidence than when party leadership positions become vacant.

It was far from evident when Gerry Adams stood down as Sinn Féin leader two years ago. A normal democratic party would have had multiple candidates throwing their hats in the ring, particularly as it had been 35 years since the last change of leadership. Only one candidate emerged. Again, there are no parallels in democratic Europe of a party being led - unchallenged - for a third of a century and a new leader being elected without a contest."

The rest of the article is here, for anyone interested:

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/greatest-threat-posed-by-sinn-fein-isnt-to-the-economy-its-to-our-democratic-fabric-38931659.html

O'Brien makes valid points but clearly at this point the electorate is not bothered by these finer points. They may rear their ugly head if SF is in Government and they are making a balls of it and popular opinion begins to turn against them. If SF make a success of being in government then the finer points will only be of interest to those who were already anti SF.

Bear in mind also that the Independent Newspaper would be known for being an anti SF paper. Which of course is their right but clearly influences their commentary on SF.

James Brown

Cupatae wrote: »

That was a fairly vulture like radio interview , regardless of what someone does..having a free for all on a radio show is Abit tasteless

Didnt listen to it. Not interested.

holyhead

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What have we come to? You might ask that again this evening.
The same broad cross section of social media that told me something seismic was going to happen in the election ain't reacting well to Leo's huff and departure to opposition.
Cullinane got some flak but it has largely died down now. Leo managing to get the attention on himself again.

Leo was never going to go into government with SF so what else was he to do? He had to come out and in this instance restate his held position of no coalition with SF. The question for Leo is, is it tenable for him to remain as FG leader. As for Cullinane his credibility may have been compromised. Time will tell.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I don't but you seem to gloss over all these issues with ah kind of ah sure SF will be SF as if it is expected. You give them loads of leeway.

Catheine Noone's serious political career ended when she called Leo Vaadkar autistic, and then said it is all about context people talk about n!ggers.

When O'Snodaigh of SF called Alan Shatter - Goebells it only seemed to enhance his!

When Culliane and Ellis were making eejits of themselves with the 'up the ra' and get out you black and tans not a single reprimand from Mary Lou.
All we got is I am not thier mammy!

I am sure many SF supporters are having a great laugh over it.

It is true Paddy Holohan was 'suspended' from the party.
But only because I feel what he said about women upset Mary Lou personally. Plus it did the women's SF vote no harm by seeming to take action.

I voted for SF for the first time in a GE because I have satisfied myself that the IRA is gone and that it has no influence on them. It is an historic organisation.

If you know different you shouldn't, firstly vote for them and secondly , go to the relevant authorities with the info you have assembled.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Not true I am well aware of the fella he is exactly what is wrong with the culture of SF.



SF have done so much things way wrong it hard to keep track of them all.
Most people forget them and they blow over. Most would be career ending stuff for normal politicians. But on the SF scale it ends up enhancing thier image. Paddy Holohan is the rare exception. Where it became indefensible.



Nobody agrees with all the policies of a party there are always some that are tweaked or amended.

Lots of them in SF's case changed overtime -

From when they were the equivalent of today's dissidents
To now power sharing with the DUP and entering the dail.

The whole 'culture' of SF stinks from top to bottom in my view and they need a root and branch cleanout.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:p84SQzxKYksJ:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%25C3%25A9in-loses-13-public-representatives-over-bullying-claims-1.3381372+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

But it is SF 'policy' to not only keep such people but have them run for election!

I would call it he 'gouger quota'. In SF it is definitely much higher than any other party in the dail.

I can't take you seriously.
I hope you come to terms with the loss.

Idbatterim

Varadkar must be ****ting it! If anyone actually does anything in the next government, it will be more than he has done in nine years!

gormdubhgorm

holyhead wrote: »

O'Brien makes valid points but clearly at this point the electorate is not bothered by these finer points. They may rear their ugly head if SF is in Government and they are making a balls of it and popular opinion begins to turn against them. If SF make a success of being in government then the finer points will only be of interest to those who were already anti SF.

Bear in mind also that the Independent Newspaper would be known for being an anti SF paper. Which of course is their right but clearly influences their commentary on SF.

Yeah what it will take is something SF does to upset the youth vote. A misguided throwaway comment about mental health or something of the like.

High chance of it happening Mary Lou can't muzzle all the eejits

Plus if dissent republicanism gets serious it could really damage SF among the new young vote in the ROI. As many would see SF placed in a difficult position of careful words. Plus the younger new SF vote in the ROI will not be used of that craic.

FrancieBrady

holyhead wrote: »

Leo was never going to go into government with SF so what else was he to do? He had to come out and in this instance restate his held position of no coalition with SF. The question for Leo is, is it tenable for him to remain as FG leader. As for Cullinane his credibility may have been compromised. Time will tell.

Leo could have stayed quiet, like M. Martin and let the situation play out.

Jinglejangle69

Idbatterim wrote: »

Varadkar must be ****ting it! If anyone actually does anything in the next government, it will be more than he has done in nine years!

He was Taoiseach 3 years.

You are obsessed with Leo Varadkar.

Its weird and scary.

He's gone, can you not get over it?

holyhead

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I voted for SF for the first time in a GE because I have satisfied myself that the IRA is gone and that it has no influence on them. It is an historic organisation.

If you know different you shouldn't, firstly vote for them and secondly , go to the relevant authorities with the info you have assembled.

Going to the police about IRA activity can get you disappeared

If you think the IRA/Gerry Adams has no influence on the SF then you probably believe GA was never in the IRA!

Idbatterim

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

He was Taoiseach 3 years.

You are obsessed with Leo Varadkar.

Its weird and scary.

He's gone, can you not get over it?

he's not gone, he's still FG leader...

Plumbthedepths

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

He was Taoiseach 3 years.

You are obsessed with Leo Varadkar.

Its weird and scary.

He's gone, can you not get over it?

Nope, less than 3 years and out of government with less TDs than June 2017. Out polled by a Shinner. 5th count before he was deemed elected. Can't remember any other sitting Taoiseach failing to get elected on the first count.

FrancieBrady

holyhead wrote: »

Going to the police about IRA activity can get you disappeared

If you think the IRA/Gerry Adams has no influence on the SF then you probably believe GA was never in the IRA!

Whatever influence Gerry has is certainly working. Biggest party in the country now.

They should make him Leader.


Oh wait!

holyhead

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Whatever influence Gerry has is certainly working. Biggest party in the country now.

They should make him Leader.


Oh wait!

The lack of a leadership contest within SF is puzzling. All democratic parties have had elections for their leadership position. I don't think SF would have gotten their vote if GA was the official leader. I do think however he is still hugely influential in SF if not the covert leader with Mary Lou as a respectable front.

holyhead

Idbatterim wrote: »

he's not gone, he's still FG leader...

Leader yes but I think his days are numbered. It's just not plausible to have a party leader who barely makes it in and having been a Taoiseach. I expect Coveney to be the new leader within a year either through Varadkar stepping down or Coveney testing the water.