What have we come to

FrancieBrady

holyhead wrote: »

The lack of a leadership contest within SF is puzzling. All democratic parties have had elections for their leadership position. I don't think SF would have gotten their vote if GA was the official leader. I do think however he is still hugely influential in SF if not the covert leader with Mary Lou as a respectable front.

Well you have found a reason not to vote for them?


Seriously folks. This is jump the shark territory now. 'I think..., therefore it is so'.

holyhead

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well you have found a reason not to vote for them?


Seriously folks. This is jump the shark territory now. 'I think..., therefore it is so'.

Francie you voted for SF. Good for you. That doesn't mean that they are immune from reasonable observations. I'm not looking to vote or not vote for Sinn Fein. However they are going to be open to scrutiny which is what happens when you pursue and in their case secure votes in an election.

holyhead

What are the circumstances in the Good Friday Agreement which would permit a poll on reunification? Whilst I don't think it influenced SF's vote in the Republic it is certainly a major plank of their policies.

holyhead

I'm not able to share the link but it is worth reading a blog my Shane Paul O'Doherty entitled "Mary Lou MacDonald-No Links To The Ira?". If you punch it into google it will come up as the first link to click on.
Very interesting reading. I appreciate that O'Doherty is very much anti SF having once been in the IRA. But having been on the inside he has a better idea than most how SF/IRA operate.

FrancieBrady

holyhead wrote: »

Francie you voted for SF. Good for you. That doesn't mean that they are immune from reasonable observations. I'm not looking to vote or not vote for Sinn Fein. However they are going to be open to scrutiny which is what happens when you pursue and in their case secure votes in an election.

Is there a party in these islands that has been scrutinised more than SF??

holyhead

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is there a party in these islands that has been scrutinised more than SF??

None more secretive

Die Hard 2019

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is there a party in these islands that has been scrutinised more than SF??

Do you believe that Sinn Fein politicians support the IRA and refer to us as "the free state " (by us I mean people from the 26 counties that had the election we are discussing)

Higgins5473

holyhead wrote: »

None more secretive

Really? Tri colours aloft, come out you black and tans being sung and elected TD's celebrating publicly the armed struggle...I don't think there is a more transparent party around no matter what your thoughts on them are.

Cupatae

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is there a party in these islands that has been scrutinised more than SF??

They are gonna get alot more of it, as a matter of fact I think them getting into power will be a poisoned chalice, this could blow up very badly.. there's alot riding on this one and if they don't get it spot on it could write them off.

holyhead

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Really? Tri colours aloft, come out you black and tans being sung and elected TD's celebrating publicly the armed struggle...I don't think there is a more transparent party around no matter what your thoughts on them are.

Tell me then what process was undergone whereby Mary Lou became leader? The same Mary Lou who insisted we had to have a contest to elect our next President.

FrancieBrady

holyhead wrote: »

None more secretive

There was a SF member on here who explained the whole leadership choice process. Basically it is led from the Cumann's. Can't remember the details but, while it was a different way of doing it, it didn't sound undemocratic to me.

BTW I am glad Adams and MMcG stayed as long as they did. The GFA would never have happened or survived had they not.
People think it all ended when the document was signed...that was actually only the beginning.
Nobody else could have kept very different and untrusting people onside, only that pair IMO.

James Brown

holyhead wrote: »

The lack of a leadership contest within SF is puzzling. All democratic parties have had elections for their leadership position. I don't think SF would have gotten their vote if GA was the official leader. I do think however he is still hugely influential in SF if not the covert leader with Mary Lou as a respectable front.

Didn't work out for Simon Coveney. Voted leader only for the shadowy figures in polo shirts to put Varadkar in place. Still, worked out well...

holyhead

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There was a SF member on here who explained the whole leadership choice process. Basically it is led from the Cumann's. Can't remember the details but, while it was a different way of doing it, it didn't sound undemocratic to me.

BTW I am glad Adams and MMcG stayed as long as they did. The GFA would never have happened or survived had they not.
People think it all ended when the document was signed...that was actually only the beginning.
Nobody else could have kept very different and untrusting people onside, only that pair IMO.

The problem is most of the public don't know how she was elected which is weird in a democracy. I do agree that the GFA was a good thing. I am happy their is peace in N.I. and long may it continue.

holyhead

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Didn't work out for Simon Coveney. Voted leader only for the shadowy figures in polo shirts to put Varadkar in place. Still, worked out well...

Your post makes absolutely no sense to me!

James Brown

holyhead wrote: »

Your post makes absolutely no sense to me!

SC was voted as leader by the members of FG. Higher ups in FG put LV in.
I assumed you knew?

holyhead

Matt Barrett wrote: »

SC was voted as leader by the members of FG. Higher ups in FG put LV in.
I assumed you knew?

My understanding was the vote for Varadkar was to get the leadership back in the hands of a Dublin based TD given that EK was rural based. If you can post me any link that backs up your assertion please do!

um7y1h83ge06nx

What's the next song Sinn Fein will do for the cameras?

I'm hoping for a bit of Go Home British Soldiers or Kinky Boots myself.

Finish it off by firing a few rounds into the air.

Running the country can wait for a later date.

maninasia

Ubbquittious wrote: »

What's the alternative? Vote in the EU / corporatist lapdogs who despite being supposedly right wing want to tax you more and more for living in your own house that they had nothing to do with the building of in the form of property tax and broadcasting charges, mandatory private bin collection service. Who knows what other annual charges into the 100s of euros for simply existing FFG had planned to reveal to us once they obtained a fresh 5 year mandate to tear into

You somehow think Sinn Fein won't be whacking on more charges and taxes for this and that. Have you seen theiir goodies for everyone 'plan'. Is an income tax better than a property tax or a tax on commuters ?
Good luck.

After weeks of campaigning, I don’t think that anyone really wants to be in government.

SF didn’t run many candidates and had a ridiculous manifesto because they weren’t really expecting the success they had. Now that people voted for them, they’re suddenly realising people expect them to deliver what they said. They need to make it look like they are trying to form a government and make FFG look bad for not going in with them. They would prefer to be opposition.

FG have been in power for 9 years. They don’t want to be a number 2 party. They’d be better letting FF/SF go in together and they’ll bounce right back in 5 years. Maybe sooner.

FF expected to do better and still seem shell shocked they’ve not done as well.

Don’t think any of them really want it with the coalition’s required to make it work.

citysights

Fg and ff sat on their hands while ordinary people struggled to find housing within their means. Nothing or very little left at the end on the month after paying exorbitant rent, no money left to save for mortgage deposit, long work commutes. Karma bites, didn’t vote sf, voted independents but totally get where these people are coming from, many young people, workers, graduates etc who feel sf are their last hope at having a life. Wake up call for fg and ff big time.

Duke of Url

citysights wrote: »

Fg and ff sat on their hands while ordinary people struggled to find housing within their means. Nothing or very little left at the end on the month after paying exorbitant rent, no money left to save for mortgage deposit, long work commutes. Karma bites, didn’t vote sf, voted independents but totally get where these people are coming from, many young people, workers, graduates etc who feel sf are their last hope at having a life. Wake up call for fg and ff big time.

I think many of them are about to get there dreams crushed.

FrancieBrady

Duke of Url wrote: »

I think many of them are about to get there dreams crushed.

So the worst that can happen is there won't be any change for them? I think that is what has happened. People have decided the risk is worth it.

BTW if FG have done what they have claimed to have done, nobody should be able to wreck the economy anymore, in the way FF did while being cheered on by others. Proper oversight and regulation, if they have been put in place should take care of it.

Calhoun

Duke of Url wrote: »

I think many of them are about to get there dreams crushed.

You know what the say about the definition of insanity. I don't think allot of people who voted for SF feel there dreams will be solved but its more of a **** the existing crowd and see if something changes.

For SF its not without its challenges though as ML has to convert those new fair weather voters into something permanent. Good article on it below.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/mary-lou-mcdonald-is-caught-between-the-old-and-the-new-1.4168789

Duke of Url

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So the worst that can happen is there won't be any change for them? I think that is what has happened. People have decided the risk is worth it.

BTW if FG have done what they have claimed to have done, nobody should be able to wreck the economy anymore, in the way FF did while being cheered on by others. Proper oversight and regulation, if they have been put in place should take care of it.

No. I think it could be a lot worse for everyone. I admit that FG messed up in a lot of ways but I think we are in for a massive sh1tshow with this Robinhood approach with SF and their socialist programme.

FF and FG need to stand back and watch.

FrancieBrady

Duke of Url wrote: »

No. I think it could be a lot worse for everyone. I admit that FG messed up in a lot of ways but I think we are in for a massive sh1tshow with this Robinhood approach with SF and their socialist programme.

FF and FG need to stand back and watch.

Why?

They might fail on their promises. But if FG did what they said they did - put oversight and regulations in place, and boot the regulators up the proverbial- then nobody should be able to crash the country.

What will happen is just another government has failed. Proceed to polling booth, elect a new one, and carry on.

No?

What else can happen, if the previous government did it's job...and did what it promised to do?

James Brown

holyhead wrote: »

My understanding was the vote for Varadkar was to get the leadership back in the hands of a Dublin based TD given that EK was rural based. If you can post me any link that backs up your assertion please do!

Only 35% of the party voted for him. It was the parliamentary party wanted him. It's common knowledge.
Google it.

Calhoun

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Only 35% of the party voted for him. It was the parliamentary party wanted him. It's common knowledge.
Google it.

Be an interesting few days, both he and Martin could face a heave.

Bill 2.0

citysights wrote: »

Fg and ff sat on their hands while ordinary people struggled to find housing within their means. Nothing or very little left at the end on the month after paying exorbitant rent, no money left to save for mortgage deposit, long work commutes. Karma bites, didn’t vote sf, voted independents but totally get where these people are coming from, many young people, workers, graduates etc who feel sf are their last hope at having a life. Wake up call for fg and ff big time.

It's only about 1 in 5 people that rent in this country and that includes people paying a pittance of rent for social housing.


The media told you housing was a huge issue and you believeed it hook, line and sinker.

FrancieBrady

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Only 35% of the party voted for him. It was the parliamentary party wanted him. It's common knowledge.
Google it.

It's crazy isn't it. People flat out going on about 'transparency' in political party's and they don't know what went on with the FG leadership election. So blind they cannot see, springs to mind.

Duke of Url

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why?

They might fail on their promises. But if FG did what they said they did - put oversight and regulations in place, and boot the regulators up the proverbial- then nobody should be able to crash the country.

What will happen is just another government has failed. Proceed to polling booth, elect a new one, and carry on.

No?

What else can happen, if the previous government did it's job...and did what it promised to do?

How will you judge SF when they mess up?

Will you hold them to the same contempt as FF or FG?