What have we come to

citysights

Cupatae wrote: »

The problem is the rent is more than likely more than a mortgage would be, the second problem you are saying it like there will always be a few cases of renting for life but the reality is the majority will be lucky if they can rent for life, the gap between most wages and the cost of living is insane.

If you are lucky enough to scrape by and afford the house car childcare ect that ll be about your lot you wont have much room to even enjoy life.

Guess they forgot we’re a society as much as an economy. That seems to be where they are going wrong, hence the vote swing, that disconnect from people. Maybe they need to get out of the Dail more, meet the people who knows...

Duke of Url

Hi All

There was a post explaining how our voting system works in the past week or 2

Anyone got a link to it?

Tony EH

jmayo wrote: »

Yes we know there isn't endless growth, but capitalism is based on trying to achieve it.
Consumerism is based on it.
The ever increasing market.

Capitalism is a pursuit of private profit, not endless growth. It was never about endless growth, because endless growth doesn't exist.

In a normal, functioning, capitalist system, profits go up and down, with the theory being that the market will regulate itself. Profits are supposed to expand and contract in order to balance out.

This is, of course, bunkum in a lot of cases.

jmayo wrote: »

No we don't have booms and bust, we have cycles of growth and then downturns.

We can go around and around on this all day and not agree.

Tony EH

Foxtrol wrote: »

So you're agreeing with my original point that it wasn't a vote for stability?

No. You're idea of "stability" is more of the same. The points others are making is about people wanting stable futures. The stability of buying their own home. Or renting in a sector that isn't the chaos we have in Ireland.

A stable future, where people can plan a life.

At present, that doesn't exist for a lot of folk.

Foxtrol wrote: »

What manifesto were you reading to think they weren't offering quick fixes?

What you call lackadaisical is spending the money that is there, the SF manifesto magics up double the amount that is expected to be available. USC gone for many, property tax gone for all, retirement age back to 65, 66% more houses than FG's already aggressive manifesto plan.

If doing all that in one term isn't claiming a quick fix I dont know what is.

You tell me. I haven't anyone talking about "quick fixes". That's your term.

Nobody I've spoken to is mentioning "quick fixes".

Cupatae

Idbatterim wrote: »

nobody expects them to turn around things overnight! but FFG have done nothing, its not going to take much , to outperform decades of doing nothing!

People want change, and dramatic change at that, that is what they voted for. SF promised to be alot different throwing up 100k houses, people will be expecting this and fairly rapid.

frillyleaf

Yurt! wrote: »

HatrickPatrick: You should print that post out, put it in an envelope, find your nearest FG TD and ask him to read it in case they're interested why Saturday went the way it did for them. Better yet, send a copy to Leo.

Outstanding post.

Agreed. It is spot on how people feel.

JC01

Idbatterim wrote: »

nobody expects them to turn around things overnight! but FFG have done nothing, its not going to take much , to outperform decades of doing nothing!

A massive chunk of those who voted for SF expect just that.

Your second comment actually proves that. FG took a country that was in the deepest recession in a generation and turned it into a booming economy. We have one of the best qualities of life in the world, full employment, a good education system, a massive welfare system etc etc. Yes we have severe issues in housing supply and a health system with massive systemic issues but to say the previous 2 governments have done nothing is exactly the kind of rhetoric that has empowered SF.

In your opinion, if SF took all 80 seats in another election in 2 months time, what would they need to accomplish to be considered successful? What quantifiable results do you think they need to deliver to maintain the support of the 10s or thousands who demand “change”?

facehugger99

Duke of Url wrote: »

Hi All

There was a post explaining how our voting system works in the past week or 2

Anyone got a link to it?

You'll find it here - google.ie

James Brown

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Mf I have been ‘skimming’ through Airy’s posts and I’ll have to say most of them just reek of innaccuracy, hearsay, generalizations, suppositions, and the usual exchanges that most folk would perhaps describe as ‘pub talk’.


Which is why I don’t bother responding.

Doing you out of a job Bren?

James Brown

Cupatae wrote: »

Or this classic.:D

Yeah that was poor. You'd excuse it in the heat of the moment but he'd obviously planned it. So he was rude and pathetic.

Cupatae

JC01 wrote: »

A massive chunk of those who voted for SF expect just that.

Your second comment actually proves that. FG took a country that was in the deepest recession in a generation and turned it into a booming economy. We have one of the best qualities of life in the world, full employment, a good education system, a massive welfare system etc etc. Yes we have severe issues in housing supply and a health system with massive systemic issues but to say the previous 2 governments have done nothing is exactly the kind of rhetoric that has empowered SF.

In your opinion, if SF took all 80 seats in another election in 2 months time, what would they need to accomplish to be considered successful? What quantifiable results do you think they need to deliver to maintain the support of the 10s or thousands who demand “change”?

Id relaxe with the "BOOMING" economy bit, also "the **best** quality of life " (results may vary)

Full employment...ehhh kind of, bit of manipulation to figures with tursa nua and the likes, also alot of jobs minimum wage ect.

Looks fantastic on paper and to reel off but in reality...not so fantastic.

James Brown

Right now it's MM telling LV, 'I want a go at being the boss' and LV weighing up would it be worth having some power but playing second fiddle. The well-being of the country has absolutely nothing to do with it.
I predict LV's ego won't handle MM as boss. If it goes ahead LV will step aside as FG leader but I've a feeling it won't happen at all.

optogirl

JC01 wrote: »

A massive chunk of those who voted for SF expect just that.

Your second comment actually proves that. FG took a country that was in the deepest recession in a generation and turned it into a booming economy. We have one of the best qualities of life in the world, full employment, a good education system, a massive welfare system etc etc. Yes we have severe issues in housing supply and a health system with massive systemic issues but to say the previous 2 governments have done nothing is exactly the kind of rhetoric that has empowered SF.

In your opinion, if SF took all 80 seats in another election in 2 months time, what would they need to accomplish to be considered successful? What quantifiable results do you think they need to deliver to maintain the support of the 10s or thousands who demand “change”?

why are you putting change in inverted commas? Your statement is that we have one of the best qualities of life in the world if you ignore health and housing. That's ridiculous.

I also can't keep up with whether we have full employment or a country full of scroungers that want a free house. I hear both said by people championing FG daily on here

tjhook

facehugger99 wrote: »

Duke of Url wrote: »

Hi All

There was a post explaining how our voting system works in the past week or 2

Anyone got a link to it?

You'll find it here - google.ie

Jaysus, I hope that makes you feel better.

Duke, I don't know what post that was, but here's a pretty good explanation...

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/elections_and_referenda/voting/proportional_representation.html

JC01

Cupatae wrote: »

Id relaxe with the "BOOMING" economy bit, also "the **best** quality of life " (results may vary)

Full employment...ehhh kind of, bit of manipulation to figures with tursa nua and the likes, also alot of jobs minimum wage ect.

Looks fantastic on paper and to reel off but in reality...not so fantastic.

~5% growth last year I think? (Yes I understand the implications of multinationals reporting profits through Ireland).

Where is better? Possibly Scandinavian countries but much higher rate of taxation balances out.

Granted a bit of figure massaging as is the case in every government metric but very few would argue we don’t have an excellent jobs market at the minute.

And honestly I think if we hadn’t the legacy issue of housing supply at the moment, people would be very hard pressed to find much else to complain about in living here.

Duke of Url

facehugger99 wrote: »

You'll find it here - google.ie

Why would I go to Google to get a post on boards.ie?

Actually maybe I will find it on reddit where its linked to a boards.ie post.

1o059k7ewrqj3n

blanch152 wrote: »

Did you think about that before you posted it?

If the vast majority of the Irish electorate voted for change, then there is a majority of TDs in the Dail who are in favour of change and will vote Mary-Lou into the Taoiseach's chair.

The 10% of people who switched votes to Sinn Fein in the election just gone are not by any definition "the vast majority of the Irish electorate".

What we are seeing right now is the complete failure of Mary-Lou to persuade anyone from any other party to support her for Taoiseach. I haven't seen Eamon Ryan or Roisin Shortall come along and say that they want Mary-Lou for Taoiseach.

That's not 10% of people switching (the figure is 10.7%), that's the difference on the last election. How many are new voters etc?

SF had the greatest first vote preference count in the election with 24.5% or 535,595 votes and would realistically be the main component of any coalition for change because of their numbers, together with other parties who are calling for change, such as the Greens (have a look at their manifesto on housing).

I would have to concede though the this isn't exactly the vast majority but it does point to a very large and real demand for change and would only rise in a 2nd election.

Btw I don't see Ryan or Shortall coming out and saying they wouldn't do a deal with SF and Mary-Lou as Taoiseach. You can make statements like that all day, it doesn't mean anything really.

JC01

optogirl wrote: »

why are you putting change in inverted commas? Your statement is that we have one of the best qualities of life in the world if you ignore health and housing. That's ridiculous.

I also can't keep up with whether we have full employment or a country full of scroungers that want a free house. I hear both said by people championing FG daily on here

Because I’ve yet to see anyone define what change actually is, it’s being bandied about without any quantifiable targets.

Housing is a problem here as it is in every other first world major city. Our massively Dublin focused economy just exacerbates the problem, you could argue 5 entire counties are effectively Dublin commuter counties which hugely muddies the water when it comes to housing here. Similar problem around Galway I believe.

Healthcare is a multifaceted problem here, largely due to the HSE rather than the government of the day. I’ve always found it interesting that we have an excellent private health system but a terrible public one.

Duke of Url

tjhook wrote: »

Jaysus, I hope that makes you feel better.

Duke, I don't know what post that was, but here's a pretty good explanation...

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/elections_and_referenda/voting/proportional_representation.html

Thanks for that

I found it here

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058050935

Idbatterim

JC01 wrote: »

A massive chunk of those who voted for SF expect just that.

Your second comment actually proves that. FG took a country that was in the deepest recession in a generation and turned it into a booming economy. We have one of the best qualities of life in the world, full employment, a good education system, a massive welfare system etc etc. Yes we have severe issues in housing supply and a health system with massive systemic issues but to say the previous 2 governments have done nothing is exactly the kind of rhetoric that has empowered SF.

In your opinion, if SF took all 80 seats in another election in 2 months time, what would they need to accomplish to be considered successful? What quantifiable results do you think they need to deliver to maintain the support of the 10s or thousands who demand “change”?

I wouldnt give much credit to FG for this, same would have happened under FF. FG just didnt do anything moronic to jeopardise a recovery AND this benefits them and their mates, so I wont give them much credit...

dublin is the only city of any scale we have, hardly surprising these multinationals, located here. If it werent dublin, it wouldnt be ireland...

James Brown

JC01 wrote: »

~5% growth last year I think? (Yes I understand the implications of multinationals reporting profits through Ireland).

Where is better? Possibly Scandinavian countries but much higher rate of taxation balances out.

Granted a bit of figure massaging as is the case in every government metric but very few would argue we don’t have an excellent jobs market at the minute.

And honestly I think if we hadn’t the legacy issue of housing supply at the moment, people would be very hard pressed to find much else to complain about in living here.

That's the issue. The economy doesn't seem to lift up the country, elements of it yes. We are in the top five per capita of countries with the most billionaires with yearly record breaking crisis numbers in homeless children.

As for the legacy of housing supply, we've been going from hotels and private rental/purchases for use as social housing as an emergency to being the norm over the past several years and FG had no plans to change that.
I agree housing is the broadest far reaching issue but FG were making it worse. We might be lucky enough not to end up on a hospital trolley though.

JC01 wrote: »

Because I’ve yet to see anyone define what change actually is, it’s being bandied about without any quantifiable targets.

Housing is a problem here as it is in every other first world major city. Our massively Dublin focused economy just exacerbates the problem, you could argue 5 entire counties are effectively Dublin commuter counties which hugely muddies the water when it comes to housing here. Similar problem around Galway I believe.

Healthcare is a multifaceted problem here, largely due to the HSE rather than the government of the day. I’ve always found it interesting that we have an excellent private health system but a terrible public one.

Is this the Varadkar, 'It's worse elsewhere' scenario? Suggesting why we've problems isn't working on solving or excusing them.

Idbatterim

What you call lackadaisical is spending the money that is there, the SF manifesto magics up double the amount that is expected to be available. USC gone for many, property tax gone for all, retirement age back to 65, 66% more houses than FG's already aggressive manifesto plan.

look, people go on about SF proposals being unsustainable. FFG pull billions out of their h*le every year. NCH, health, welfare increases, billions, yet that is not unsustainable?

They want to increase the state pension E5 a year for the next five years. I would hazard a guess, that this is more costly, than freezing it and lowering the pension age, down to 65... They are talking ****e, its just a matter of choices...

Yurt2

Idbatterim wrote: »

They want to increase the state pension E5 a year for the next five years. I would hazard a guess, that this is more costly, than freezing it and lowering the pension age, down to 65... They are talking ****e, its just a matter of choices...

I've wondered about the sums of that one as well. I think the kindest thing that could be said about it is it's robbing Peter to pay Paul. It's auction politics and gives lie to the fiscal responsibility narrative.

cadaliac

Idbatterim wrote: »

I wouldnt give much credit to FG for this, same would have happened under FF. FG just didnt do anything moronic to jeopardise a recovery AND this benefits them and their mates, so I wont give them much credit...

dublin is the only city of any scale we have, hardly surprising these multinationals, located here. If it werent dublin, it wouldnt be ireland...

What a load of bollocks.

James Brown

Yurt! wrote: »

I've wondered about the sums of that one as well. I think the kindest thing that could be said about it is it's robbing Peter to pay Paul. It's auction politics and gives lie to the fiscal responsibility narrative.

I think that ship has sailed out to sea dragged by the good tug boat 'law and order party'.

James Brown

cadaliac wrote: »

What a load of bollocks.

Up the Dubs!

Cupatae

JC01 wrote: »

~5% growth last year I think? (Yes I understand the implications of multinationals reporting profits through Ireland).

Where is better? Possibly Scandinavian countries but much higher rate of taxation balances out.

Granted a bit of figure massaging as is the case in every government metric but very few would argue we don’t have an excellent jobs market at the minute.

And honestly I think if we hadn’t the legacy issue of housing supply at the moment, people would be very hard pressed to find much else to complain about in living here.

The bottom line is if it was all that good and everyone was reaping the benefits of this growth and amazing situation there would be no one complaining, but there are very real problems in this country..

What constitutes as "better"? the jobs market is excellent?Alot of people are still living at home or scraping by how can that be excellent?

I mean the houses are there but no one can afford em.

JC01

Bowie wrote: »

That's the issue. The economy doesn't seem to lift up the country, elements of it yes. We are in the top five per capita of countries with the most billionaires with yearly record breaking crisis numbers in homeless children.

Isn't that the nature of capitalism though? People will be left behind in any economy and equality will exist no matter who is in charge.

Bowie wrote: »

As for the legacy of housing supply, we've been going from hotels and private rental/purchases for use as social housing as an emergency to being the norm over the past several years and FG had no plans to change that.
I agree housing is the broadest far reaching issue but FG were making it worse. We might be lucky enough not to end up on a hospital trolley though.

Did FG not bring 16000 social and affordable houses to the market in the last 2 years? Mostly through private developments but none the less.

Bowie wrote: »

Is this the Varadkar, 'It's worse elsewhere' scenario? Suggesting why we've problems isn't working on solving or excusing them.

Far from it, I'm no massive fan of FG but for me they represent the best chance we have at the moment of maintaining what we have and slowly fixing some of the problems that exist.

JC01

Cupatae wrote: »

The bottom line is if it was all that good and everyone was reaping the benefits of this growth and amazing situation there would be no one complaining, but there are very real problems in this country..

Thats never going to happen, people will always be left behind, its just the way the world works for better or worse.

Cupatae wrote: »

What constitutes as "better"? the jobs market is excellent?Alot of people are still living at home or scraping by how can that be excellent?

I mean the houses are there but no one can afford em.

The market dictates the price. People can and are buying at current rates, just not two people on average wages. Any new developments near me are usually sold out off the plans despite being obscenely priced

Cupatae

JC01 wrote: »

Thats never going to happen, people will always be left behind, its just the way the world works for better or worse.



The market dictates the price. People can and are buying at current rates, .just not two people on average wages Any new developments near me are usually sold out off the plans despite being obscenely priced

i agree people will be left behind, but the amount of people being left behind now is no longer a reasonable amount, i dont doubt they sell out, i wonder whos buying em? wonder how many of em will be rented out for extortionate prices.

just not two people on average wages that right there is a problem do you not agree?