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What have we come to

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    #2402
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,835 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Bowie wrote: »
    Up the Dubs! :)

    markwardtattoo.jpg

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #2403
    JC01
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭JC01


    Cupatae wrote: »
    i agree people will be left behind, but the amount of people being left behind now is no longer a reasonable amount, i dont doubt they sell out, i wonder whos buying em? wonder how many of em will be rented out for extortionate prices.

    just not two people on average wages that right there is a problem do you not agree?

    I agree that thats a problem, with the caveat that people need to be realistic with where they believe they should be able to expect those homes to be. Average wages are simply not going to be able to buy you houses in very desirable areas, which in Ireland is most easily Dublin commutable towns.


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    #2404
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    MLMD is really going nuts at the moment about FFG not returning her calls.


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    #2405
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,148 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Tony EH wrote: »
    No. You're idea of "stability" is more of the same.

    The points others are making is about people wanting stable futures. The stability of buying their own home. Or renting in a sector that isn't the chaos we have in Ireland.

    A stable future, where people can plan a life.

    At present, that doesn't exist for a lot of folk.

    Again, just because you want a stable future it doesn't mean going to Vegas and putting all your savings on red is making a decision based on stability.


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    #2406
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    JC01 wrote: »
    Isn't that the nature of capitalism though? People will be left behind in any economy and equality will exist no matter who is in charge.

    Certain levels, like breaking records year on year, are not acceptable.
    The problem with 'capitalism' is it's not defined. Bailing out banks and private bondholders passes for capitalism.
    JC01 wrote: »
    Did FG not bring 16000 social and affordable houses to the market in the last 2 years? Mostly through private developments but none the less.

    Well define 'bring'? Leasing/renting/buying at market, as a tax payer, only acceptable as a stop gap.
    In 2018 there were 4,291 new builds.
    As of September 2,003 were built in 2019.
    https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-housing-general-election-debate-4982691-Jan2020/

    JC01 wrote: »
    Far from it, I'm no massive fan of FG but for me they represent the best chance we have at the moment of maintaining what we have and slowly fixing some of the problems that exist.

    To be clear I'm no fan of FF/FG based on policy. If they fixed their policies I'd happily support them, I'd likely not buy any of them a pint.
    I completely disagree. Their shtick is 'fiscal responsibility', but that's not the case. How any politician can over see record breaking crises and the number of working people dependent on state aid for rent etc. while congratulating themselves on the economy is beyond me. Not to mention high employment but blaming people on welfare for many social issues we are told a strong economy will look after. It hasn't.


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    #2407
    1o059k7ewrqj3n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭1o059k7ewrqj3n


    Duke of Url wrote: »
    MLMD is really going nuts at the moment about FFG not returning her calls.

    The establishment is closed doors - strictly FFG/Lab and perhaps a sprinkle of Greens, Social Dems and Independents who make up the numbers in exchange for token changes and input.


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    #2408
    Cupatae
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Cupatae


    JC01 wrote: »
    I agree that thats a problem, with the caveat that people need to be realistic with where they believe they should be able to expect those homes to be. Average wages are simply not going to be able to buy you houses in very desirable areas, which in Ireland is most easily Dublin commutable towns.

    It's country wide tho, not just Dublin people seem to think it's only Dublin and commuter towns , but you have other major cities and commuter towns with the same issues albeit not as bad as Dublin prices but up there none the less

    Exclude desirable areas then where could said average wage people live ? I'd say it's slim pickings

    There's something seriously wrong with the whole set up that this has to be the case. Ordinary people jobs simply aren't good enough. Unfortunately they account for a hell of a lot of people

    The gap has to be bridged someway , and I don't think the answer is "just get a better" job as the prices will just keep climbing as people and groups keep reaping profits


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    #2409
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,835 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Duke of Url wrote: »
    MLMD is really going nuts at the moment about FFG not returning her calls.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #2410
    Cupatae
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Cupatae


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-8000481/Magnate-4-5million-council-houses-says-hes-not-responsible-making-people-lose-out.html

    Similar craic going on here. Imo


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    #2411
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Duke of Url wrote: »
    MLMD is really going nuts at the moment about FFG not returning her calls.

    There are 86 or 87 non-FFG TDs in the Dail, why doesn't she talk to them?


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    #2412
    Billcarson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,564 ✭✭✭Billcarson


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    Again, just because you want a stable future it doesn't mean going to Vegas and putting all your savings on red is making a decision based on stability.

    Yeh like the stable future ff gave us a decade ago.


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    #2413
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    blanch152 wrote: »
    There are 86 or 87 non-FFG TDs in the Dail, why doesn't she talk to them?




    She's going to talk to all of them, obviously. Even the Greens.


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    #2414
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    blanch152 wrote: »
    There are 86 or 87 non-FFG TDs in the Dail, why doesn't she talk to them?

    But are they 'in' the Dail/country?


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    #2415
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    blanch152 wrote: »
    There are 86 or 87 non-FFG TDs in the Dail, why doesn't she talk to them?

    I would think that many of them have turned her down.

    Or heaven forbid that SF don’t actually want to be leading the country.

    Who would they blame if a socialist programme doesn’t work out.


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    #2416
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Steyr 556 wrote: »
    The establishment is closed doors - strictly FFG/Lab and perhaps a sprinkle of Greens, Social Dems and Independents who make up the numbers in exchange for token changes and input.

    It isnt closed doors. It is fully open to anyone to stand as a candidate, and the people to elect the representative that they wish. How can it be more open than that ? Just because people dont choose the representative you wish they would, doesnt mean its closed.
    People need to wake up from this type of nonsense. We get the government that the people want.


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    #2417
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    It isnt closed doors. It is fully open to anyone to stand as a candidate, and the people to elect the representative that they wish. How can it be more open than that ? Just because people dont choose the representative you wish they would, doesnt mean its closed.
    People need to wake up from this type of nonsense. We get the government that the people want.

    Not quite. Did the FG voters want a FF/FG partnership or vice versa? We don't know. Looks like a good many wanted anything but another FF/FG partnership but that's looking the most likely.


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    #2418
    1o059k7ewrqj3n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭1o059k7ewrqj3n


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    It isnt closed doors. It is fully open to anyone to stand as a candidate, and the people to elect the representative that they wish. How can it be more open than that ? Just because people dont choose the representative you wish they would, doesnt mean its closed.
    People need to wake up from this type of nonsense. We get the government that the people want.

    It is a closed door system, and it has been so for almost the entire history of this state. People have voted for change and the likes of FFG are refusing to entertain even dialogue with SF because that’s not the kind of change that FFG thinks the people should have.


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    #2419
    Bill 2.0
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭Bill 2.0


    Steyr 556 wrote: »
    It is a closed door system, and it has been so for almost the entire history of this state. People have voted for change and the likes of FFG are refusing to entertain even dialogue with SF because that’s not the kind of change that FFG thinks the people should have.

    FFG don't need SF to make up the numbers, they can form a government without them.

    75% of voters didn't vote for SF.


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    #2420
    tjhook
    Registered Users Posts: 741 ✭✭✭tjhook


    Steyr 556 wrote: »
    It is a closed door system, and it has been so for almost the entire history of this state. People have voted for change and the likes of FFG are refusing to entertain even dialogue with SF because that’s not the kind of change that FFG thinks the people should have.


    Well we have a democracy. FF and FG have indicated that SF should go and create a government without FF or FG. If they can't do that, then the mandate for SF's flavour of change may not be so strong.


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    #2421
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    Steyr 556 wrote: »
    It is a closed door system, and it has been so for almost the entire history of this state. People have voted for change and the likes of FFG are refusing to entertain even dialogue with SF because that’s not the kind of change that FFG thinks the people should have.

    I thought SF didn’t want to go into Government with FFG . Are they not changing there mind as it seems many of the other left leaning parties and TDs also don’t want to associate themselves with SF?


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    #2422
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Bill 2.0 wrote: »
    FFG don't need SF to make up the numbers, they can form a government without them.

    75% of voters didn't vote for SF.

    And 84% of people didnt vote for change.

    SF's rise, while not actually that high, seems to be making them dizzy, and distorting their judgement of what change really means.


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    #2423
    1o059k7ewrqj3n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭1o059k7ewrqj3n


    Duke of Url wrote: »
    I thought SF didn’t want to go into Government with FFG . Are they not changing there mind as it seems many of the other left leaning parties and TDs also don’t want to associate themselves with SF?

    Based on....? What, Labour? They aren’t left leaning.


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    #2424
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Duke of Url wrote: »
    I thought SF didn’t want to go into Government with FFG . Are they not changing there mind as it seems many of the other left leaning parties and TDs also don’t want to associate themselves with SF?

    Unlike FF and FG, other parties have their own ideas about policies not as easily bought by the chance of an extra pension, (except maybe Labour).


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    #2425
    citysights
    Closed Accounts Posts: 288 ✭✭citysights


    Bowie wrote: »
    Unlike FF and FG, other parties have their own ideas about policies not as easily bought by the chance of an extra pension, (except maybe Labour).

    Why do they get an extra pension if they are in gov. as opposed to being in opposition ?


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    #2426
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    citysights wrote: »
    Why do they get an extra pension if they are in gov. as opposed to being in opposition ?

    Different rates and add-ons depending on time spent in specific posts.


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    #2427
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    Steyr 556 wrote: »
    Based on....? What, Labour? They aren’t left leaning.

    That’s odd. The papers list Labour as left leaning.


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    #2428
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Duke of Url wrote: »
    That’s odd. The papers list Labour as left leaning.

    Bertie Ahern considers himself a socialist too.


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    #2429
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    Bowie wrote: »
    Bertie Ahern considers himself a socialist too.

    The Irish Times states
    groups and parties on Ireland’s political left, including Sinn Féin, the Labour Party, the Social Democrats and the Green Party.


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    #2430
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    And 84% of people didnt vote for change.

    SF's rise, while not actually that high, seems to be making them dizzy, and distorting their judgement of what change really means.

    20% voted for the sitting government...everyone else voted to change that.


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    #2431
    Ol' Donie
    Registered Users Posts: 19,637 ✭✭✭✭Ol' Donie


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    20% voted for the sitting government...everyone else voted to change that.

    How'd you work that out?


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