What have we come to

Jinglejangle69

citysights wrote: »

Well you did say the young have take aways three times a week which is just your opinion and an attempt at deflection from the very serious matter of their housing needs and the general in affordability of living in Ireland for them.

They spend too much money on take aways.

But that is only one factor among many they waste money on.

They have no clue about financial prudence so just blame the government when they can't afford things.

lawrencesummers

If SF do get to lead the next government, which looks unlikely I was looking forward to the character assassination that would have happened. Old stories were dug up before the election to try and discredit SF but a lot
Of voters were able to see through it.

If they get into power and FFG are on the opposition benches you can be sure that the old boys network of solicitors, Gardaí seargants, judges, tax officials, etc etc will publish everything untoward associated with SF TD’s. After decades in power FFG have deep roots and the people who have personally profited from them for years will Play ball.

Shefwedfan

lawrencesummers wrote: »

If SF do get to lead the next government, which looks unlikely I was looking forward to the character assassination that would have happened. Old stories were dug up before the election to try and discredit SF but a lot
Of voters were able to see through it.

If they get into power and FFG are on the opposition benches you can be sure that the old boys network of solicitors, Gardaí seargants, judges, tax officials, etc etc will publish everything untoward associated with SF TD’s. After decades in power FFG have deep roots and the people who have personally profited from them for years will Play ball.

Dont need old stories when you have plonkers shouting about "Up the Ra" as part of celebrations!!

Annasopra

Ubbquittious wrote: »

They're the only decent size party that havn't screwed us massively before. Give them a chance

Nah.

They signed upto the bank bailout.

All of the bullied councillors that left them between 2014 and 2019 were screwed massively. Numerous sexual abuse victims were screwed massively by them. Through their links to the IRA they screwed half the North with their murder and terrorism.

Shefwedfan

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Nah.

They signed upto the bank bailout.

All of the bullied councillors that left them between 2014 and 2019 were screwed massively. Numerous sexual abuse victims were screwed massively by them. Through their links to the IRA they screwed half the North with their murder and terrorism.

It seems some people think this is FF or FG trying to bad mouth SF.....pity all of the above is true and a lot more.....

lawrencesummers

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Dont need old stories when you have plonkers shouting about "Up the Ra" as part of celebrations!!

He was a plonker before he got elected, the fact that he got elected says more about his constituency opponents that didn’t get elected than it does him.

Bill 2.0

lawrencesummers wrote: »

He was a plonker before he got elected, the fact that he got elected says more about his constituency opponents that didn’t get elected than it does him.

It says more about the electorate to be honest.

lawrencesummers

Bill 2.0 wrote: »

It says more about the electorate to be honest.

The new fool is better than the old fool?

dresden8

Sweet.Science wrote: »

They really should increase the amount you can earn to go on the housing list. It should increase from 35k a year to 60k if you are single.
There is a huge amount in the private rental trap forever

What happens when all this people retire and can no longer afford extortionate rent?

The market says they are uneconomic units so they can piss off and die. It's best for everyone.

riclad

Rents were not high in the 80,,s 90,s , councils were building 1000,s of houses for social housing.House prices were not so high as they are now.
We have had a housing crisis for at least 7 years ,
i remember the 80,s , 90,s any person who worked full time could get
a mortgage and buy a house .
Someone who,s in their early 20,s may not remember all this.
Women are living in hotels for years now with 1 or 2 children .
this is not a normal situation .It was not always like this .

James Brown

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Your last sentence is agreeing with me.

The youth think they have it worst than the last generation and its their fault!!

BS!!

That's not so. The youth and many adults in their 30's and 40's have it worse. It's the arrogance of FG acting like it's not happening had them losing their arse.
How come we have record breaking numbers of children homeless, kids spending years in hotels...avocado shortage?

Bill 2.0

Bowie wrote: »

How come we have record breaking numbers of children homeless, kids spending years in hotels...avocado shortage?

Because that gets you a free forever-home if you can't be bother with the whole "working for a living" thing.

Tony EH

riclad wrote: »

Rents were not high in the 80,,s 90,s , councils were building 1000,s of houses for social housing.House prices were not so high as they are now.
We have had a housing crisis for at least 7 years ,
i remember the 80,s , 90,s any person who worked full time could get
a mortgage and buy a house .
Someone who,s in their early 20,s may not remember all this.
Women are living in hotels for years now with 1 or 2 children .
this is not a normal situation .It was not always like this .

The bolded part is the salient part and it's what exercises a lot of people today. In a normal, functioning, society where markets aren't just allowed to go bang, this would be the case.

But today, we have unregulated sectors that are allowed to gamble away people's futures and a government merry-go-round that doesn't want to try and fix that issue, because by and large, that class of people aren't affected by their decisions.

Ordinary folk, nearly everyone on this forum, are though and often in the most catastrophic ways.

I, too, remember the 80's and the 90's when even people on modest incomes could afford to get a mortgage and plan a future. When this type of boom/bust bull**** wasn't normalised in the minds of 20 somethings.

The most damning thing about our current political malaise is that after 2008, you'd think that the incoming government would have done something to try and avoid the disaster that the last one left behind. Instead they just follow the same model. Let things go out of control and hope your not around when it goes tits up.

Idbatterim

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Everything you listed was the same 50 years ago.

People had to save, cut back on nights out, eat beans and toast each week, cut their cloth to measure.

No foreign holidays, no 2 cars. No ipads, Netflix, take aways where a once a year treat. Now it's 3 times a week.

Nights out where a rarity, clothes were just a necessity not a statement.

This generation is entitled and spoiled and have no clue about financial prudence.

A lot of truth in this! HOWEVER its far harded that it needs to be, because FG in particular, want high prices, for multiple obvious reasons. There are a ton of scoungers, getting now free luxury apartments etc. That absolutely cannot be tolerated or socially acceptable, when you have working people living in kips, awful commute etc and themselves cant save... The problem with the analysis is, its too simplistic, there are a ton of working people, who would love to vote for something between FG and SF, but that option isnt there or certainly isnt, where the number of seats, will be anyway meaningful...

riclad

Fine gael have become complacent, sinn fein appeal to working class young people .Since the crash in 2008, it was apparent that a housing crisis was on the way.
Just saving the banks and borrowing billions would not stop it .
We needed a 10 year plan for housing, our population increased with the boom, but there was not the new house building there to meet the demand from young people and workers .
i think we will end up with a fianna fail /sf coalition .
but its not certain.

Yurt2

riclad wrote: »

Fine gael have become complacent, sinn fein appeal to working class young people .Since the crash in 2008, it was apparent that a housing crisis was on the way.

Much more than young working class people. I've spoken to more than a few home-owning adults in the professions in their 30s that gave them the nod.

FG in particular are going to have to shell out a lot of money on pollsters and focus groups to figure out how they're losing a demographic like that.

If anyone from FG hq is reading this, I'll save you some money. They're p*ssed at trying to service a mortgage for a property they feel they overpaid for after years in a toxic rental market, they struggle with the expense of childcare, they spend long hours commuting, setting at aside for an adequate pension is becoming more difficult and healthcare coverage for their young family is expensive.

Quality of life / rising cost of living / declining or stagnant return for their long hours in the workplace every week. And despite how the FG manifesto was structured, they're not actually asking for a taxcut.

Tony EH

Yurt! wrote: »

Much more than young working class people. I've spoken to more than a few home-owning adults in the professions in their 30s that gave them the nod.

FG in particular are going to have to shell out a lot of money on pollsters and focus groups to figure out how they're losing a demographic like that.

If anyone from FG hq is reading this, I'll save you some money. They're p*ssed at trying to service a mortgage for a property they feel they overpaid for after years in a toxic rental market, they struggle with the expense of childcare, they spend long hours commuting, setting at aside for an adequate pension is becoming more difficult and healthcare coverage for their young family is expensive.

Quality of life / rising cost of living / declining or stagnant return for their long hours in the workplace every week. And despite how the FG manifesto was structured, they're not actually asking for a taxcut.

This has been my experience too. Very surprised at some of the folk I've talked to over the past week who said they voted SF.

citysights

Tony EH wrote: »

This has been my experience too. Very surprised at some of the folk I've talked to over the past week who said they voted SF.

Same here surprised with people who voted for them as well. They are furious with the state of the country said they want change. People in jobs some third level educated.

Fred Cryton

Yurt! wrote: »

Much more than young working class people. I've spoken to more than a few home-owning adults in the professions in their 30s that gave them the nod.

FG in particular are going to have to shell out a lot of money on pollsters and focus groups to figure out how they're losing a demographic like that.

If anyone from FG hq is reading this, I'll save you some money. They're p*ssed at trying to service a mortgage for a property they feel they overpaid for after years in a toxic rental market, they struggle with the expense of childcare, they spend long hours commuting, setting at aside for an adequate pension is becoming more difficult and healthcare coverage for their young family is expensive.

Quality of life / rising cost of living / declining or stagnant return for their long hours in the workplace every week. And despite how the FG manifesto was structured, they're not actually asking for a taxcut.

Even if all that were true, SF doesn't have any magic solutions that would pass even a rudimentary test by experts in the field of housing, transportation and so on..


For example, the best way to get more housing built in Dublin is through less local democracy, by by-passing the local councils. DCC are the ones blocking high rise apartments in Dublin. In all seriousness, would SF ever do anything like that? Your best hope for fixing this is with the more responsible parties like FG or FF.

Tony EH

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Even if all that were true, SF doesn't have any magic solutions that would pass even a rudimentary test by experts in the field of housing, transportation and so on..

Maybe they can use the same magic solution that Fine Gael used to knock up the world's most expensive children's hospital?

Bill 2.0

Tony EH wrote: »

Maybe they can use the same magic solution that Fine Gael used to knock up the world's most expensive children's hospital?

Oh cool, when did that get finished?


Thought they were only still in the planning phase.

Fred Cryton

Tony EH wrote: »

Maybe they can use the same magic solution that Fine Gael used to knock up the world's most expensive children's hospital?

Civil servants are the ones costing these things, nothing to do with any political party. You think that hospital would have come in cheaper if SF or FF were in government? Don't make me laugh.

Fireball81

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Civil servants are the ones costing these things, nothing to do with any political party. You think that hospital would have come in cheaper if SF or FF were in government? Don't make me laugh.

Indeed- don't under estimate the power of the 'permanent politicians' aka senior civil servants who can't be got rid of for incompetence.

Yurt2

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Even if all that were true, SF doesn't have any magic solutions that would pass even a rudimentary test by experts in the field of housing, transportation and so on..
.

Except that the housing policy crafted by O'Broin is by a country mile the most coherent of any of the parties and his book on the same subject actually has been widely praised across academia and the business press.

Having read all the manifestos, with a particular eye on taxation and housing (the major issue of the election), SF are streets ahead of the others on housing. Evreyone, including the public, know it. It's one of the major reasons why FG got such a kicking.

Plumbthedepths

Bill 2.0 wrote: »

Oh cool, when did that get finished?


Thought they were only still in the planning phase.

No they are in the building phase, noone has the foggiest of what the final cost will be but so far its projected to be running close to 2 billion. Runaway costs no one accountable as always.

wrangler

Fireball81 wrote: »

Indeed- don't under estimate the power of the 'permanent politicians' aka senior civil servants who can't be got rid of for incompetence.

+1
They should've been fecked out instead of the politicians

maccored

citysights wrote: »

Same here surprised with people who voted for them as well. They are furious with the state of the country said they want change. People in jobs some third level educated.

you'll find theres quite a few of those -many of whom have voted sf more than once. amazed some people believe the scumbags, the uneducated and the poor are the only ones to vote sf, type theory. scumbags, the uneducated and the poor vote for all kinds of parties

Brendan Bendar

Yurt! wrote: »

Except that the housing policy crafted by O'Broin is by a country mile the most coherent of any of the parties and his book on the same subject actually has been widely praised across academia and the business press.

Having read all the manifestos, with a particular eye on taxation and housing (the major issue of the election), SF are streets ahead of the others on housing. Evreyone, including the public, know it. It's one of the major reasons why FG got such a kicking.

I think you should wait and see, before spaffing off against the wall.

Fred Cryton

Yurt! wrote: »

Except that the housing policy crafted by O'Broin is by a country mile the most coherent of any of the parties and his book on the same subject actually has been widely praised across academia and the business press.

Having read all the manifestos, with a particular eye on taxation and housing (the major issue of the election), SF are streets ahead of the others on housing. Evreyone, including the public, know it. It's one of the major reasons why FG got such a kicking.

Oh so he wrote a book on the subject...he must be an expert so ;-) Remind me from what prestigious university he received his PhD on housing...oh i see...


Increasing social housing requirement to 25% as O'Brien wants? Everyone in the industry saying this would be disastrous move and would immediately dry up supply of financing for new development....but sure your messiah O'Broin wrote a book so he must know more than those actually in the industry right?



You're brainwashed, wake up.

Deep Thought

People wanted something else and voted for change.. so did America