What have we come to

Brendan Bendar

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

These are sovereign bonds - supposed to provide the very safest investment with the lowest returns in the world.

Ireland only has a tiny pool of investors in our bonds.

You may get a way with it if you are the United States. The United Kingdom wouldn't get away with it for example.

You can't intentionally burn creditors who, in good faith, lent the country money on the basis that it was a properly managed country.

Do that and you will be locked out of the market completely. There are serious consequences to those actions which are not understood by some.

Not understood by a lot,Kermit as numerous posts on this revered site can testify.

If that happened, then you’d hear the whinging.

GreeBo

votecounts wrote: »

This is the one of the stereotypes that I hate. Plenty of educated, professional and hard working people vote for SF, sure they got 24.5% of the vote. If 24.5% of the country were "layabout scumbags",the country would be fcuked.:D Some people would say it's the stupid ones that keep electing FF and FG and expecting different results.

Hang about, I thought the whole reason people voted for "Chaaaaannngeee!" was precisely because the country was fcuked?

Man, you SF people really need to get your story (and your budgets) (and your spelling!) straight!

joeguevara

maccored wrote: »

i forgot this was boards where you have to explain the obvious - they got more of the first preference votes

My last line was saying exactly what it said - if you complain about the social security system, blame FF, FG and their various partners over the years, not SF. Ive no idea how you read that as having an issue with democracy

Getting more first preference votes means nothing. And they only got 1.5% more preference votes than FF. They don't have the most seats and are not the biggest party.

With regards to having an issue with democracy, you stated that the problem is too many people voting FF. if you have a problem with too many people voting a political party, then you essentially have a problem with democracy, cause believe it or not, that is how it works.

thequarefellow

What have we come to?
The end of politicians with silly monikers? (And hopefully the end of journalists using them)

Pat 'The Cope' Gallagher
Kevin 'Boxer' Moran

joeguevara

thequarefellow wrote: »

What have we come to?
The end of politicians with silly monikers? (And hopefully the end of journalists using them)

Pat 'The Cope' Gallagher
Kevin 'Boxer' Moran

In Donegal, where there are so many people with the same first and surname, it is commonplace to have the family nickname to differentiate them. For example, when I was in Irish College there were 4 houses with a bean an ti named Brid Gallagher and was differentiated by Brid the hall gallagher etc.

Pat the Cope Gallagher is to do with his grandfather who was associated with the Cope Co-operative in West Donegal. It is not a stupid moniker, it is just what people are called in Donegal.

joe40

Shefwedfan wrote: »

SF got the vote and are now trying to same sure they don’t get into power because they have a f**king clue how to and the “manifesto” they released is a load of lies which they can never deliver

Easier to go in as opposition and throw poo at the people doing the real work than doing it themselves.

So the 25% who voted for SF it was a waste of time, they will do nothing for your vote....

How are Sinn Fein trying to avoid getting into government?

Shefwedfan

joe40 wrote: »

How are Sinn Fein trying to avoid getting into government?

Well the “manifesto” they released is a pile of poo which they can deliver none of it

SF are grand standing and throwing mud, once you give them any sort of power they f**k it up, just ask the North, how long did they end up without a government

Brendan Bendar

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Well the “manifesto” they released is a pile of poo which they can deliver none of it

SF are grand standing and throwing mud, once you give them any sort of power they f**k it up, just ask the North, how long did they end up without a government

SF are bricking themselves now that they have had to come out from under their slates.

Along with the other non FF and FG deputies they have combined to oppose everything, pillory both FF and FG incessantly for the last four years.

Now nothing wrong with that, but now they haven’t the mebbes to stand up and be counted, to walk the walk and put their rhetoric and bulldust where it can be evaluated, in Government.

Up to now these folk have been scrabbling for some excuse to avoid being in Government despite with the aid of their fellow travelers blocking and opposing everything FG and FF tried to push through.

We are waiting to see if they have the cahunas.

Yurt2

Bricking it?

Leo said he's excited and relishing going into opposition today. Those are the words of a man who has given up. History will not treat Varadkar kindly.

Idbatterim

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Well the “manifesto” they released is a pile of poo which they can deliver none of it

SF are grand standing and throwing mud, once you give them any sort of power they f**k it up, just ask the North, how long did they end up without a government

this is bull****, its all about choices! want to cut pension age down to 65? no problem, dont increase the weekly pension by E25 over the next 5 years as proposed by FFG. So increasing the current rate is sustainable and good practice, but freezing it and brining it back down 65 isnt?

The LPT that brings in a pittance and is abused? abolish it, 500,000,000 a year, they'll blow that on a welfare increase instead, if its still there... the irony that the SF proposals, actually were better policies for workers, than that of FFG! :rolleyes:

What happened to FFG plan to scrap USC? SF want to do that for many voters. You just dont get to blow that money that you bring in now USC to a threshold and LPT on ****e. I trade off I am very happy with

Fann Linn

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

SF are bricking themselves now that they have had to come out from under their slates.

Along with the other non FF and FG deputies they have combined to oppose everything, pillory both FF and FG incessantly for the last four years.

Now nothing wrong with that, but now they haven’t the mebbes to stand up and be counted, to walk the walk and put their rhetoric and bulldust where it can be evaluated, in Government.

Up to now these folk have been scrabbling for some excuse to avoid being in Government despite with the aid of their fellow travelers blocking and opposing everything FG and FF tried to push through.

We are waiting to see if they have the cahunas.

Do they have 80 seats?

Idbatterim

Yurt! wrote: »

Bricking it?

Leo said he's excited and relishing going into opposition today. Those are the words of a man who has given up. History will not treat Varadkar kindly.

whats he going to say when he fancies a sniff at power again? we will make work pay? LOL! the laughter lounge is close enough to the dail, if you fancy a career change Leo!

Shefwedfan

Yurt! wrote: »

Bricking it?

Leo said he's excited and relishing going into opposition today. Those are the words of a man who has given up. History will not treat Varadkar kindly.

After spending the last few years listening to the likes of Mary Lou and PBP I would agree with Varadkar

He is very young, just got a bit of pasting in general election, I would say he will relish been on other side throwing muck with nothing to back it up.

Then run again in 5 years and just say “I told you so”, fairly good bet he won’t need to last 5 years if SF in charge

Bit early to talk about history when SF have done f**k all so far

Jinglejangle69

Heard the end of newstalk with some expert saying in 2 years whoever is in power will reap the benefits of housing policies been implemented in the last few years.

There is a huge amounts of social housing started on top of the most in the last 30 years due to be finished this year.

Before people jump down my throat it's what I heard and not my opinion.

Things are happening but wasn't quick enough for the electorate.

They want houses overnight.

Shefwedfan

Idbatterim wrote: »

this is bull****, its all about choices! want to cut pension age down to 65? no problem, dont increase the weekly pension by E25 over the next 5 years as proposed by FFG. So increasing the current rate is sustainable and good practice, but freezing it and brining it back down 65 isnt?

The LPT that brings in a pittance and is abused? abolish it, 500,000,000 a year, they'll blow that on a welfare increase instead, if its still there... the irony that the SF proposals, actually were better policies for workers, than that of FFG! :rolleyes:

What happened to FFG plan to scrap USC? SF want to do that for many voters. You just dont get to blow that money that you bring in now USC to a threshold and LPT on ****e. I trade off I am very happy with

101 politics!!

Ok so when you drop all of what SF said they would, along with Carbon tax where does the money come from? The land of magic?

Plus as we have no carbon tax where is money coming to pay for the CO2 fines? Land of magic again?

Also seemingly going to raise the tax bracket for the people who earn less, so less tax coming in as well

Plus they are going to hire loads of doctors and nurses, plus Garda....who is paying for them?

The manifesto is a pile of muck, nothing adds up, it was pulled to shreads in a few mins by everyone

No idea why you think SF is better for the worker, the only way they can pay for all of this is tax the sh*t out of anyone with a decent wage

Idbatterim

Shefwedfan wrote: »

101 politics!!

Ok so when you drop all of what SF said they would, along with Carbon tax where does the money come from? The land of magic?

Plus as we have no carbon tax where is money coming to pay for the CO2 fines? Land of magic again?

Also seemingly going to raise the tax bracket for the people who earn less, so less tax coming in as well

Plus they are going to hire loads of doctors and nurses, plus Garda....who is paying for them?

The manifesto is a pile of muck, nothing adds up, it was pulled to shreads in a few mins by everyone

No idea why you think SF is better for the worker, the only way they can pay for all of this is tax the sh*t out of anyone with a decent wage

sure didnt FFG say they would abolish USC etc :rolleyes: You cant actually believe their manifestors, but what they will give you, in an insight into direction and policies. Abolishing LPT, reducing pension age to 65 and abolition of usc up to a point, is absolutely no problem and I bet you that this coming budget, they will squander more than they money to achieve those outcomes, by blowing it in a different way, its a zero sum game

Idbatterim

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Heard the end of newstalk with some expert saying in 2 years whoever is in power will reap the benefits of housing policies been implemented in the last few years.

There is a huge amounts of social housing started on top of the most in the last 30 years due to be finished this year.

Before people jump down my throat it's what I heard and not my opinion.

Things are happening but wasn't quick enough for the electorate.

They want houses overnight.

LOL! LOL! go look at another thread on this forum about the waiting list for free housing! Supply is increasing hugely, but that doesnt in itself lead to price cuts, prices rocketed during the boom, when supply was insane! Affordability isnt addressed, its just so bloody obvious, I have been saying it for ages and now nearly every second media article you read about it, says the same thing. Its affordability that is a key issue, no plans to do anything about it from FFG from what I can see... So say they were able to pull an extra fifty thousand units out of their ass for dublin next year, the problem is with the current build cost and tax take from the government, the vast majority still wouldnt be able to afford them...

Professor Moriarty

Idbatterim wrote: »

sure didnt FFG say they would abolish USC etc :rolleyes: You cant actually believe their manifestors, but what they will give you, in an insight into direction and policies. Abolishing LPT, reducing pension age to 65 and abolition of usc up to a point, is absolutely no problem and I bet you that this coming budget, they will squander more than they money to achieve those outcomes, by blowing it in a different way, its a zero sum game

Why should one believe The Ra's manifesto and not FFG's?

Idbatterim

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Why should one believe The Ra's manifesto and not FFG's?

I dont, but you cant believe FFG either... there is no issue financially with getting rid of LPT, and USC up to a point or lowering pension age to 65 again. You just make a choice not to spend that money on other areas. The issue is here always, the money follows the votes, policy follows the votes and its an insane way to governm a country, the chickens will come home to roost

Professor Moriarty

Idbatterim wrote: »

I dont, but you cant believe FFG either... there is no issue financially with getting rid of LPT, and USC up to a point or lowering pension age to 65 again. You just make a choice not to spend that money on other areas. The issue is here always, the money follows the votes, policy follows the votes and its an insane way to governm a country, the chickens will come home to roost

That's democracy. You just take a punt on whichever party you think is most aligned with your needs and/or your principles. No manifesto will be implemented so all you can do is hope they don't destroy the economy and they give people what they deserve.

Idbatterim

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That's democracy. You just take a punt on whichever party you think is most aligned with your needs and/or your principles. No manifesto will be implemented so all you can do is hope they don't destroy the economy and they give people what they deserve.

thats a big issue here in my opinion, far too many getting more than they deserve and a large amount, getting screwed, to pay for it all!

Professor Moriarty

Idbatterim wrote: »

thats a big issue here in my opinion, far too many getting more than they deserve and a large amount, getting screwed, to pay for it all!

I agree. Won't change much whoever gets in though. It's systematic.

lawrencesummers

Housing needs to be nationalized to be resolved. The private sector is never going to fix the problem because they only want to profit from building.


It’s not complicated. For the government to solve the housing problem they need to build public housing on public land. Not Sell the land off cheap to have a developer do it where they release enough units at a time to the market that keeps the price high and gifts 10% of the houses to the state.


FFG are buddy buddy with developers, this will never change. They would sooner rent hotel rooms and pay private landlords millions through HAP than build a stock of houses that they own because the people that will lose the most are builders and developers.

Shefwedfan

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Housing needs to be nationalized to be resolved. The private sector is never going to fix the problem because they only want to profit from building.


It’s not complicated. For the government to solve the housing problem they need to build public housing on public land. Not Sell the land off cheap to have a developer do it where they release enough units at a time to the market that keeps the price high and gifts 10% of the houses to the state.


FFG are buddy buddy with developers, this will never change. They would sooner rent hotel rooms and pay private landlords millions through HAP than build a stock of houses that they own because the people that will lose the most are builders and developers.

Who is going to build the houses?

At the moment the private sector doesn't have enough trades people so you want to kick off another sector to rival it?

Which land was sold off cheap to developers?

Brendan Bendar

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Housing needs to be nationalized to be resolved. The private sector is never going to fix the problem because they only want to profit from building.


It’s not complicated. For the government to solve the housing problem they need to build public housing on public land. Not Sell the land off cheap to have a developer do it where they release enough units at a time to the market that keeps the price high and gifts 10% of the houses to the state.


FFG are buddy buddy with developers, this will never change. They would sooner rent hotel rooms and pay private landlords millions through HAP than build a stock of houses that they own because the people that will lose the most are builders and developers.

More of the same hackneyed rubbish.

bladespin

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

More of the same hackneyed rubbish.

It may be hackneyed but is it far from the truth? Years and years of backhanders, dodgy planning and cartels have led to this, a change of approach is definitely needed, doesn’t matter if it’s the old club or the new but someone has to fix it.

lawrencesummers

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Who is going to build the houses?

At the moment the private sector doesn't have enough trades people so you want to kick off another sector to rival it?

Which land was sold off cheap to developers?

Builders.
Who is building houses currently? The capacity to build is an issue if houses are built publicly or privately, but at least when the government builds houses they own the asset instead of housing lining the pockets of banks and builders and 100% of those houses can go to satisfy the growing housing shortage among the social welfare dependent that are costing massive money to house in temporary accommodation.

lawrencesummers

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

More of the same hackneyed rubbish.

Elaborate.

lawrencesummers

bladespin wrote: »

It may be hackneyed but is it far from the truth? Years and years of backhanders, dodgy planning and cartels have led to this, a change of approach is definitely needed, doesn’t matter if it’s the old club or the new but someone has to fix it.

Exactly.
At the moment developers control the housing market. They control supply so they control price. If they buyers are not available to pay the price they want, they reduce supply.

Developers have no interest in resolving the housing crisis,In fact it suits them that it exists, they only care to get the most amount of money that’s possible for every unit they build. The central bank lending rules are the only control that exist on house prices.

Brendan Bendar

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Elaborate.

No need to, just the same old worn out rhetoric prevalent for the last four years.

Same old same old...you got an alleged problem.... grow a pair an instead of trundling out the same old rubbish, get out and sort it.

Your lot have been claiming you can for long enough.


Time to come out from under your slates.