What have we come to

James Brown

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Of course I do, a chara, get this, everybody in the sector is accountable.

Everyone plays a role,dude, especially those in the public service.

You need to understand that policy is dictated by resources available and what, in this case, the taxpayer can afford.

Are you suggesting that irrespective of the income available from the taxpayer that unlimited resources be thrown at the hse?

You do realise that revenue available for public services is a ‘pie’ which has to be distributed and horsing x amount to one sector means x- that amount is available for everything else.

Have you ever thought like that?

Hmmmmm......

You're changing tac now Bren.
The buck stops with the Ministers. How much money and what it's spent on etc.

lawrencesummers

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So what is the solution?

The solution is complex and requires changes that are to numerous and detailed to list here, but I will tell you what the solution isn’t.


It isn’t putting the same incompetence back in charge of something they have made a disaster of.

JohnnyFlash

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Of course I do, a chara, get this, everybody in the sector is accountable.

Everyone plays a role,dude, especially those in the public service.

You need to understand that policy is dictated by resources available and what, in this case, the taxpayer can afford.

Are you suggesting that irrespective of the income available from the taxpayer that unlimited resources be thrown at the hse?

You do realise that revenue available for public services is a ‘pie’ which has to be distributed and horsing x amount to one sector means x- that amount is available for everything else.

Have you ever thought like that?

Hmmmmm......

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/health/2020/

We spend 18.3 billion on health and 21.3 billion on social protection, Brendan. Hardly ignoring the issues one would have thought. In fact we spend 6 billion more than in 2015 on health. I suppose that must be down in part to actually running budget surpluses.

Complex stuff. Glad I have a PhD in Complicated Economics from Harvard College, Oxford.

Wanderer78

Brendan Bendar wrote:

You do realise that revenue available for public services is a ‘pie’ which has to be distributed and horsing x amount to one sector means x- that amount is available for everything else.

But what about the ability of governments to create money via bonds, or by loans, would this not be a part of the pie also, and not just the availability of funds via revenue?

Higgins5473

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/health/2020/

We spend 18.3 billion on health and 21.3 billion on social protection, Brendan. Hardly ignoring the issues one would have thought. In fact we spend 6 billion more than in 2015 on health. I suppose that must be down in part to actually running budget surpluses.

Complex stuff. Glad I have a PhD in Complicated Economics from Harvard College, Oxford.

Johnny, seems you have a 1st class Honours Degree in the Economic school of Idiocy. Here's lesson one in 1st class primary school mathematics combined with some social personal integration, history and science...throwing extra money at something does not resolve it. You and your thick Fine Gael pals need to try and understand this.

JohnnyFlash

Wanderer78 wrote: »

But what about the ability of governments to create money via bonds, or by loans, would this not be a part of the pie also, and not just the availability of funds via revenue?

Have you seen our national debt, pal?

People want everything sorted without having to worry themselves about where the spondulicks are going to come from.

Wanderer78

JohnnyFlash wrote:

Have you seen our national debt, pal?

Ah shur look, we all know that was all a scam anyway! With record low rates, you d be mad not to tap into it.

JohnnyFlash

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Ah shur look, we all know that was all a scam anyway! With record low rates, you d be mad not to tap into it.

It’s not something we have much control over. We are beholden to the EU’s Fiscal Stability Treaty.

It’s the money and budgeting part of government that really appears to confuse some of the lads around here. The limited amount of money and the 40 billion we spend on social and health leaving is with fück all to do lots of other nice things.

Higgins5473

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Have you seen our national debt, pal?

People want everything sorted without having to worry themselves about where the spondulicks are going to come from.

Irish Times headline reads tomorrow "Boards.ie Higgins5473 solves health crisis".
Although, you'll have the Independent in your grips first thing in the morning to see whatever muck propaganda they produce next.

What response would you expect from that question?

If you want a very quick answer as a start; the Childrens Hospital built elsewhere with different contractors.

How would you solve the health crisis?

Wanderer78

JohnnyFlash wrote:

It’s not something we have much control over. We are beholden to the EU’s Fiscal Stability Treaty.

I've a funny feeling this will eventually be revisited in the EU, as we all become a bit more desperate in trying to keep things ticking over in our respected countries

JohnnyFlash

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Irish Times headline reads tomorrow "Boards.ie Higgins5473 solves health crisis".
Although, you'll have the Independent in your grips first thing in the morning to see whatever muck propaganda they produce next.

What response would you expect from that question?

If you want a very quick answer as a start; the Childrens Hospital built elsewhere with different contractors.

How would you solve the health crisis?

I’d implement Slaintecare which all parties signed up to. It’s a FG based policy, but ye can have it.

Where would you have built the hospital and what would it have saved? Don’t be a moaner.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It’s a FG based policy, but ye can have it.
.

All party Johnny.

Social Democrat TD Róisín Shortall founded in June 2016 an all-party “Committee on the Future of Healthcare” following an initiative by the health department with the aim to identify an appropriate approach for establishing universal healthcare in Ireland.[10] The committee was supported by an academic team from Trinity College Dublin to analyse submissions made within 30 public hearings in the course of the public consultation process.[11] In May 2017 the committee published its final report entitled “Committee on the Future of Health, Sláintecare Report”, which specified universal healthcare based on the following definition:

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

I suggest we elect people to public office to tackle it and if they are woeful try some others.

Exactly, so SF have got a big chuck of vote and now are running away from forming a government. It is on their onus to pull a government together....


What have they done so far? they talked more to the press than to any of the parties

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Have you seen our national debt, pal?

People want everything sorted without having to worry themselves about where the spondulicks are going to come from.

Yes, FG signed us up to it. Is that not how they saved us?
No they don't. That's an excuse used by FG supporters, (as in the FG way of conducting government). Ironically Kenny's FG got in on the exact opposite. Tough times and major changes. We've all discussed that and anyone around in 2011 should recall it.

Brendan Bendar

Bowie wrote: »

You're changing tac now Bren.
The buck stops with the Ministers. How much money and what it's spent on etc.

Not changing anything Bee, it’s just your incorrect inference of my stance which is changing.

You don’t seem to be able to understand the issue.


And I’m getting a small bit tired of trying to explain it to you.:D


It’s there in black and white and if you can’t figure it out.... I cannot help you, pal

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Exactly, so SF have got a big chuck of vote and now are running away from forming a government. It is on their onus to pull a government together....


What have they done so far? they talked more to the press than to any of the parties

Don't worry yourself, what SF do or don't do doesn't excuse FG/FF record on health.

I believe they are speaking to everyone. They even got on the blower to MM.

James Brown

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Not changing anything Bee, it’s just your incorrect inference of my stance which is changing.

You don’t seem to be able to understand the issue.


And I’m getting a small bit tired of trying to explain it to you.:D


It’s there in black and white and if you can’t figure it out.... I cannot help you, pal

We were discussing what a new government might do and criticising the outgoing. You railed in with talk on managers and staff holding responsibility. We've clarified that now.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

Don't worry yourself, what SF do or don't do doesn't excuse FG/FF record on health.

I believe they are speaking to everyone. They even got on the blower to MM.

She rang MM and then ran out to tell the press all about it. I hope if she does get into power they dont send her into any negotiations in Europe or anywhere.



Can you not actually see through the bulls**t? we are now how long since the vote and apart from press conf run by majority of SF on an hourly basis they have talked to none of the parties, not to Labour, Greens, FF or FG. If they really wanted to be in government they would get them all into a room and hash it out, so FG dont want to be in then FF and whoever.....that is what FF/FG done last time


SF have no intention of going into government and Mary Lou is making sure none of the other parties will be able to deal with him when you see that messing going on.


Why she not come out and say "yes rang MM, had a good call, we will talk again soon".....not a load of bulls**t and bluster

Brendan Bendar

Bowie wrote: »

We were discussing what a new government might do and criticising the outgoing. You railed in with talk on managers and staff holding responsibility. We've clarified that now.

In regard to the HSE?

I didn’t ‘rail in’ I pointed out that discussing what might be done about the HSE without including all the stakeholders roles would be extremely foolish.


You can understand that?

lawrencesummers

Shefwedfan wrote: »

She rang MM and then ran out to tell the press all about it. I hope if she does get into power they dont send her into any negotiations in Europe or anywhere.



Can you not actually see through the bulls**t? we are now how long since the vote and apart from press conf run by majority of SF on an hourly basis they have talked to none of the parties, not to Labour, Greens, FF or FG. If they really wanted to be in government they would get them all into a room and hash it out, so FG dont want to be in then FF and whoever.....that is what FF/FG done last time


SF have no intention of going into government and Mary Lou is making sure none of the other parties will be able to deal with him when you see that messing going on.


Why she not come out and say "yes rang MM, had a good call, we will talk again soon".....not a load of bulls**t and bluster

You should watch the news and read a decent newspaper sometime.

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

She rang MM and then ran out to tell the press all about it. I hope if she does get into power they dont send her into any negotiations in Europe or anywhere.



Can you not actually see through the bulls**t? we are now how long since the vote and apart from press conf run by majority of SF on an hourly basis they have talked to none of the parties, not to Labour, Greens, FF or FG. If they really wanted to be in government they would get them all into a room and hash it out, so FG dont want to be in then FF and whoever.....that is what FF/FG done last time


SF have no intention of going into government and Mary Lou is making sure none of the other parties will be able to deal with him when you see that messing going on.


Why she not come out and say "yes rang MM, had a good call, we will talk again soon".....not a load of bulls**t and bluster

So what? You said they weren't talking to anyone.
The SD's are out today talking on FG acting the maggot as regards talks. Politicians tell the public what they are at. That's part of their job.

Both SF and the SD's are right. Any government with FF or FG is not any meaningful change.

James Brown

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

In regard to the HSE?

I didn’t ‘rail in’ I pointed out that discussing what might be done about the HSE without including all the stakeholders roles would be extremely foolish.


You can understand that?

That's not true. We spoke on government you introduced Management and staff as (later clarified as 'part of') the problem.

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I didn’t realise Michael Mc Dowell, Bertie, Noel Dempsey, Enda Kenny, The Ringer,etc...etc... all worked in hospitals..........verrry interesting.


Were there no medical staff and managers and Unions,and consultants and stuff?

Had they no input into anything?

Strange the private hospitals by a and large seem to work tickety boo?

Brendan Bendar

Tony EH wrote: »

Yes, it will take a long time to fix the problems that the PDs, FF, FG have caused in the health service over the years.

One thing's for sure though. FFG certainly aren't going to bother their arses trying.

Bowie wrote: »

That's not true. We spoke on government you introduced Management and staff as (later clarified as 'part of') the problem.

The reply was to TonyEH, pal, nothing to do with your input

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

So what? You said they weren't talking to anyone.
The SD's are out today talking on FG acting the maggot as regards talks. Politicians tell the public what they are at. That's part of their job.

Both SF and the SD's are right. Any government with FF or FG is not any meaningful change.

Do you call a 15 min call talking?

I would classify talking as sitting down in a room Nd trying to form a government ....she spent longer talking to the press today than the main person she need to talk to

Has she talked to the Greens? Labour or anyone ?

SF can’t form a government talking to RTÉ, someone should telL them or we will be here for years

Shefwedfan

lawrencesummers wrote: »

You should watch the news and read a decent newspaper sometime.

Hahaha, you popped back up with more ideas how to cripple the country? :-)

It’s all on a website called RTÉ.ie....Ps on the Mary Lou article see the only bit that made any sense was the FF politician at the bottom

No shouting, no bluster just sense....maybe SF could learn something

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Do you call a 15 min call talking?

I would classify talking as sitting down in a room Nd trying to form a government ....she spent longer talking to the press today than the main person she need to talk to

Has she talked to the Greens? Labour or anyone ?

SF can’t form a government talking to RTÉ, someone should telL them or we will be here for years

You're coming across as desperate.

No, idea, hopefully she announces it to the media.

Gas.

Higgins5473

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I’d implement Slaintecare which all parties signed up to. It’s a FG based policy, but ye can have it.

Where would you have built the hospital and what would it have saved? Don’t be a moaner.

John, I haven’t been in office nor tried to be, so I don’t see the point in responding to your questions where a hospital should be built as your masters made the decision. You’re defending the health budget and minister and of those you have your tongue firmly up their sphincter muscle so I think you should be responding to my original query about throwing additional money does not achieve anything. You respond with some ignorant muck about how much was spent in health, defend it with some results in that spending not the money that was spent. You should think about joint the Healy Rae campaign.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

You're coming across as desperate.

No, idea, hopefully she announces it to the media.

Gas.

It’s ok, I was expecting a childish response

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It’s ok, I was expecting a childish response

I can see why.
You asked me who SF were talking to after complaining they tell the media who they're talking to.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

I can see why.
You asked me who SF were talking to after complaining they tell the media who they're talking to.

You seem to have some problem reading. Not just my posts but a few others so will leave you to it....