What have we come to

Cupatae

Tony EH wrote: »

It's the issue right now for far too many people.

They haven't a hope of scraping together the money for a deposit and far too much of their wage goes on renting some overpriced fleece of "accommodation".

Someone who thinks that it's all being flittered away on lattes, etc, isn't remotely living on the same planet.

Into the bargain, if younger folk are spending their money on lattes, it has more to do with the realisation that even if they save every penny they can and live life like a hermit, they'll STILL never get on the housing ladder.

100% there seems to be this myth that everyone is on good money or simply need to get good jobs (I'd love to know where these are) mainly proported by people on good jobs and cruising,

What's worse is people have the blinkers on for just getting the necessities like house car child care which is understandable, but it leaves no room to enjoy any bit of life which is also wrong,

James Brown

smurgen wrote: »

The flittering away on lattes comment reminds me of the let them eat cake comment.just as detached from reality.

The whole (FG/FG follower), attitude has been if you are having a tough time of it it's on you, ignoring external factors while at the same time patting themselves on the back in other areas. Now the electorate have spoken, it's the electorate who is wrong, stupid, lazy etc. What complete arrogance.

smurgen

Cupatae wrote: »

100% there seems to be this myth that everyone is on good money or simply need to get good jobs (I'd love to know where these are) mainly proported by people on good jobs and cruising,

What's worse is people have the blinkers on for just getting the necessities like house car child care which is understandable, but it leaves no room to enjoy any bit of life which is also wrong,

Bear in mind we're also working longer hours than previous generations ever did and commuting further than previous generations ever did and pretty soon the rising costs and stagnant wages are going to make for an angry angry electorate.

James Brown

The reality that home ownership, the only security and family asset many could previously hope to work towards, is getting further out of reach is saddening.

Tony EH

Bowie wrote: »

The whole (FG/FG follower), attitude has been if you are having a tough time of it it's on you, ignoring external factors while at the same time patting themselves on the back in other areas. Now the electorate have spoken, it's the electorate who is wrong, stupid, lazy etc. What complete arrogance.

That's always been the attitude of people who have things fine themselves. I'm alright Jack is par for the course.

One has to be wilfully blind to be unaware of what faces someone in their 20's today with regards to simply buying a home.

And wilfully something else to just simply not care. Which I reckon is the vast majority of cases.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

The whole (FG/FG follower), attitude has been if you are having a tough time of it it's on you, ignoring external factors while at the same time patting themselves on the back in other areas. Now the electorate have spoken, it's the electorate who is wrong, stupid, lazy etc. What complete arrogance.

You do realize that SF got 25% of the vote.....

Shefwedfan

Tony EH wrote: »

That's always been the attitude of people who have things fine themselves. I'm alright Jack is par for the course.

One has to be wilfully blind to be unaware of what faces someone in their 20's today with regards to simply buying a home.

And wilfully something else to just simply not care. Which I reckon is the vast majority of cases.

Yeah the poor people, plenty of time crying on the internet mind you

Like that is going to get them a house

Eric Cartman

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You do realize that SF got 25% of the vote.....

we should start expressing it as 3/4 of people didn't vote for SF.

Shefwedfan

Eric Cartman wrote: »

we should start expressing it as 3/4 of people didn't vote for SF.

At the moment you would think they got 100% of the vote

Tony EH

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Yeah the poor people, plenty of time crying on the internet mind you

Like that is going to get them a house

^
I rest my case.

flutered

smurgen wrote: »

The flittering away on lattes comment reminds me of the let them eat cake comment.just as detached from reality.

or noonans they can afford a sky sub

Eric Cartman

Shefwedfan wrote: »

At the moment you would think they got 100% of the vote

there are people suggesting SF should wait for a re-run, run 80+ candidates and that they'd form a government without issue after it. One even said it in a youtube comment section under dessie singing 'come out ye black and tans' this is the political tour de force were dealing with here.

Yurt2

The legacy parties, and FG above all, live in a world where they think things can be explained away. What is happening with housing is such a fundamental shift in the Irish economic reality for people, that the more they try to explain it away, use misleading statistics or think of it as an optics problem, the angrier people will become.

They also fail to realise that 10s of thousands of people leave school and college every year and are joining the rental sh*theap. These people are growing in number every year and the mainstream parties just aren't getting the message. They are accustomed to buying off the public sector or sweetening up pensioners, it's not in their playbook or imagination to solve an issue like this or even in their headspace to know how to tackle it. That's why FG throw their hands in the air and sneer 'there's nothing anybody can do,' because they don't know what to do with the ideological tools baked into the party.

Any party not showing will to change the model of housing provision in Ireland should really get off the stage and the individuals in them should seek a new career, because on the current course, this problem will get worse before it gets better.

hatrickpatrick

smurgen wrote: »

Bear in mind we're also working longer hours than previous generations ever did and commuting further than previous generations ever did and pretty soon the rising costs and stagnant wages are going to make for an angry angry electorate.

We're already there IMO. The election results speak for themselves. A better prepared and better organised left will run the table if there's another election within the next few months, and if not, unless whatever government emerges actually tackles stagflation and the cost of living over its five year term, there'll be a whole extra generation of young Irish people who've graduated from college during that term in office, found themselves also locked out of any kind of housing security and facing ever dwindling qualities of life as a result of stagflation, and joining the revolt against establishment politics.

As I said over the page, it's astonishing that our political parties are so stubbornly blind to all this, even after getting hammered in an election. Where's their sense of self-preservation? You'd expect even a politician completely devoid of empathy or morality to at least care about their own re-election prospects, but the mantra of "the electorate are too stupid or ignorant to understand how good we've been in office" from FG suggests that they truly haven't got a clue what's facing them a few years down the line if the crises we're discussing here aren't addressed yesterday.

It's genuinely perplexing and I'm honestly struggling to understand it. FG under Enda Kenny was absolutely horrendous at PR and relating to the electorate's mood, but if you'd told me that a few years later that FG's communications game would actually have gotten worse under Leo's leadership (The Leodership, as it will henceforth be known) I'd have laughed and denied that it could get much worse.

I've actually been saying since the election that I reckon the arrogant communication coming from the likes of Eoghan Murphy and Leo Varadkar was a much a factor in angering young people as was the actual policies pursued by their government. Arrogant "let them eat cake" style comments like we've seen over the last few pages from Blanch and other posters were coming directly from the mouths of the country's Leodership, thinly veiled though they might have been. Who's advising these people on how to sell their platform to an electorate which is increasingly finding themselves worse and worse off financially since the so-called "recovery" got underway? Or are they genuinely unaware that this is happening to hundreds of thousands of Irish people?

Eric Cartman

Bowie wrote: »

The reality that home ownership, the only security and family asset many could previously hope to work towards, is getting further out of reach is saddening.

tell every woman to stop working, tell 3/4 of people not go to to college , make it fine for houses to have no insulation and an outside toilet, close the borders and tell 60% of the population to live rurally again.

The idea that buying a house should be as easy as in your parents time is a farce, everything was very very different then.

Brendan Bendar

Yurt! wrote: »

The legacy parties, and FG above all, live in a world where they think things can be explained away. What is happening with housing is such a fundamental shift in the Irish economic reality for people, that the more they try to explain it away, use misleading statistics or think of it as an optics problem, the angrier people will become.

They also fail to realise that 10s of thousands of people leave school and college every year and are joining the rental sh*theap. These people are growing in number every year and the mainstraim parties just aren't getting the message. They are accustomed to buying off the public sector or sweetening up pensioners, it's not in their playbook or imagination to solve an issue like this or even in their headspace to know how to tackle it. That's why FG throw their hands in the air and sneer 'there's nothing anybody can do,' because they don't know what to do with the ideological tools baked into the party.

Any party not showing will to change the model of housing provision in Ireland should really get off the stage.

That post as well as being completely inaccurate, has the ring of desperation about it.

As the dog on the ad says, “News for ya.....you’re fooling nobody, pal.”

hatrickpatrick

Eric Cartman wrote: »

there are people suggesting SF should wait for a re-run, run 80+ candidates and that they'd form a government without issue after it. One even said it in a youtube comment section under dessie singing 'come out ye black and tans' this is the political tour de force were dealing with here.

While the idea of SF being able to form a majority government on their own is obviously ridiculous hyperbole, I feel they definitely stand to gain at least six more seats, and that's in the Dublin regions alone. I was at the count in the RDS over both days and in all honesty, reading about it in the paper or watching it on the news can't really do justice to the staggering surpluses SF's candidates were receiving - Mitchel, Ellis, O'Snodaigh and McDonald all, to my recollection, had surpluses which amounted to full quotas or near as dammit full quotas all on their own, and at least one of them had multiple quotas' worth of votes all in their own first preference transfers.

It was truly astonishing to see, I've been at all three General Election counts from 2011's election onwards and I've never seen anything like this. Either Denise Mitchell's or Dessie Ellis's transfers took more or less a full day to get through the second count because they were so gigantic, normally the length of time between counts drops substantially between the first and second count but I'm pretty sure one of those was announced relatively late on Sunday afternoon and we didn't get count #2 from that constituency until well into Monday due to the sheer size of the surplus.

Yurt2

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

That post as well as being completely inaccurate, has the ring of desperation about it.

As the dog on the ad says, “News for ya.....you’re fooling nobody, pal.”

I'll say this about you Brendan, you are completely on-brand Fine Gael.

hatrickpatrick

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

That post as well as being completely inaccurate, has the ring of desperation about it.

As the dog on the ad says, “News for ya.....you’re fooling nobody, pal.”

Rather than merely pointing out that a post is in your view inaccurate, it would greatly benefit the debate here if you could outline how, specifically, it earned that epithet. :pac:

Eric Cartman

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

While the idea of SF being able to form a majority government on their own is obviously ridiculous hyperbole, I feel they definitely stand to gain at least six more seats, and that's in the Dublin regions alone. I was at the count in the RDS over both days and in all honesty, reading about it in the paper or watching it on the news can't really do justice to the staggering surpluses SF's candidates were receiving - Mitchel, Ellis, O'Snodaigh and McDonald all, to my recollection, had surpluses which amounted to full quotas or near as dammit full quotas all on their own, and at least one of them had multiple quotas' worth of votes all in their own first preference transfers.

It was truly astonishing to see, I've been at all three General Election counts from 2011's election onwards and I've never seen anything like this. Either Denise Mitchell's or Dessie Ellis's transfers took more or less a full day to get through the second count because they were so gigantic, normally the length of time between counts drops substantially between the first and second count but I'm pretty sure one of those was announced relatively late on Sunday afternoon and we didn't get count #2 from that constituency until well into Monday due to the sheer size of the surplus.

mad what a false promise of free housing can do.
I always look at dublin south central in awe, perpetually vote for free handouts, if a manifesto mentioned jobs the candidate would be run out of the place.

Yurt2

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

While the idea of SF being able to form a majority government on their own is obviously ridiculous hyperbole, I feel they definitely stand to gain at least six more seats, and that's in the Dublin regions alone. I was at the count in the RDS over both days and in all honesty, reading about it in the paper or watching it on the news can't really do justice to the staggering surpluses SF's candidates were receiving - Mitchel, Ellis, O'Snodaigh and McDonald all, to my recollection, had surpluses which amounted to full quotas or near as dammit full quotas all on their own, and at least one of them had multiple quotas' worth of votes all in their own first preference transfers.

It was truly astonishing to see, I've been at all three General Election counts from 2011's election onwards and I've never seen anything like this. Either Denise Mitchell's or Dessie Ellis's transfers took more or less a full day to get through the second count because they were so gigantic, normally the length of time between counts drops substantially between the first and second count but I'm pretty sure one of those was announced relatively late on Sunday afternoon and we didn't get count #2 from that constituency until well into Monday due to the sheer size of the surplus.

On the Eamon Dunphy podcast, Bertie the old snake (who would tend to know these things) reckoned SF left another 11 seats behind them.

Brendan Bendar

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Rather than merely pointing out that a post is in your view inaccurate, it would greatly benefit the debate here if you could outline how, specifically, it earned that epithet. :pac:

Walls of text do nothing for me, dude.

Sorry bout that.

hatrickpatrick

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Walls of text do nothing for me, dude.

Sorry bout that.

If the three relatively short paragraphs in Yurt's post qualify as "walls of text" in your eyes, one wonders why you're posting on a political forum at all

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You do realize that SF got 25% of the vote.....

That relates to the housing situation under the outgoing government how exactly?

hatrickpatrick

Eric Cartman wrote: »

mad what a false promise of free housing can do.
I always look at dublin south central in awe, perpetually vote for free handouts, if a manifesto mentioned jobs the candidate would be run out of the place.

If Dublin Corporation could pull it off in broke, war-torn, rationed 1930s Ireland, what exactly makes it so impossible for 21st century "recovery" Ireland to get it done?

James Brown

Eric Cartman wrote: »

tell every woman to stop working, tell 3/4 of people not go to to college , make it fine for houses to have no insulation and an outside toilet, close the borders and tell 60% of the population to live rurally again.

The idea that buying a house should be as easy as in your parents time is a farce, everything was very very different then.

Not talking easy, possible. It should be possible.
I assume you have a house? If not, fair play.

Shefwedfan

Eric Cartman wrote: »

there are people suggesting SF should wait for a re-run, run 80+ candidates and that they'd form a government without issue after it. One even said it in a youtube comment section under dessie singing 'come out ye black and tans' this is the political tour de force were dealing with here.

SF are losing voters by the day as people realize the “politicians” that got voted in. For a while it was grand as Mary Lou and 1-2 more was all they seen and everyone said they are ok

Now they see a charity robbing person, a nut case after people from Israel and lots more. Mary Lou shouting and roaring to the press but to no other party ....the press are loving it as everyday one of the SF has another story out about them

By the time an elections did come back around they will have shown true colours and be out the door

It doesn’t matter what one crack pot says on YouTube.....sure Facebook is trying to get 100,000 to walk at weekend to demand a SF government :-)

The I seen today another crackpot has started a page to get SF to dump all tolls on Ireland.

James Brown

Eric Cartman wrote: »

mad what a false promise of free housing can do.
I always look at dublin south central in awe, perpetually vote for free handouts, if a manifesto mentioned jobs the candidate would be run out of the place.

SF didn't get all the votes. FF and FG got similar and the SD's and Greens did okay too. Nobody promised free housing or handouts.
Again, we are supplying housing in leases, purchases and rentals. You are arguing against, in your own coluorful manner, what we already have.

*************

I see talk on the housing situation over the last few years has been hi-jacked into another shinner whinge by the crew.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

That relates to the housing situation under the outgoing government how exactly?

That relates to you somehow not understanding that 25% of a vote is not the electorate speaking....it’s a small portion of it, the rest want nothing to do with SF

Brendan Bendar

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If Dublin Corporation could pull it off in broke, war-torn, rationed 1930s Ireland, what exactly makes it so impossible for 21st century "recovery" Ireland to get it done?

Building up a bill of 31 million in rent arrears might give one a clue.


Does it for me, a chara.