New Dail / New Taoiseach

charlie14

Field east wrote: »

I ponder why the silence

The Handmaid`s Tale like comment on pensions would be my guess

Sierra Oscar

Mary Lou should be allowed take up the mantle as Taoiseach. She won the election, time to deliver on change.

rockatansky

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Mary Lou should be allowed take up the mantle as Taoiseach. She won the election, time to deliver on change.

They need partners in Government. Can't see many parties willing to go in with them with videos like that came out today.

boring accountant

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I'm not sure socialist populism will be such a flash in the pan here

The SF vote amongst the under thirty demographic is huge, we have an exclusively left wing media where pro free market ideals are viewed as far dirtier than SF Marxist thought

I wouldn't count on it. There's a reason parties of government almost never have a younger support base. The youth are especially fickle and complacent when it comes to turnout. SF will need to tack to the older voters if they want to survive beyond this election.

is_that_so

rockatansky wrote: »

They need partners in Government. Can't see many parties willing to go in with them with videos like that came out today.

All of the criticism here is pointing the finger of blame at FG & FF. SF could have all manner of problems with their own coalition, never mind having to deal with a very bolshy opposition.

LoughNeagh2017

What is this sordid republic Sinn Fein still want? I wouldn't trust a southerner as far as I could throw one. They weren't friends to Ulster pre plantation so why would we trust southerners now? As far as I am concerned my country will always be the chunk of land containing Derry/Antrim/Tyrone and Donegal, they are the lands of centuries of my family history, not Dublin and Cork.

Sierra Oscar

rockatansky wrote: »

They need partners in Government. Can't see many parties willing to go in with them with videos like that came out today.

Why can't they form a Government with far left Independents, Greens and other groupings who have been calling for change? The opportunity is now there. It's what many of these TD's have spent their entire life campaigning for. Surely they won't back down now that they actually have the opportunity to govern?

boring accountant

Ladykiller Regulation Tattoo wrote: »

Why did she bring that blonde air head down to Dublin. She's from the north of Ireland. It's not doing any favors for SF. It's like dumb and dumber.

I kept asking myself what she's doing here.



It seems they're making a political statement about what this election result means for the prospect of Irish unity.

fly_agaric

Would generally be a Labour voter so could be my biases showing, but thought they got an awful rough ride off the media when they were in govt. during the crisis period.

FG mudguards for whatever austerity policy of the day was generating public anger + absolutely ripped into by everyone.
FG got off quite lightly & architects of the bust (FF) managed to rehabilitate themselves in the eyes of at least part of the electorate. Seems kind of unfair to me.

funkey_monkey

What is the point of having a referendum in the South if there will be no equivalent in the North?

What were the latest poll figures on unity? There are so many issues in both sides of the border that I can't see either going for the perceived instability of the other.

IAMAMORON

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Why can't they form a Government with far left Independents, Greens and other groupings who have been calling for change? The opportunity is now there. It's what many of these TD's have spent their entire life campaigning for. Surely they won't back down now that they actually have the opportunity to govern?

There lies another irony. The cranks get their votes complaining about everything and throwing up idealistic solutions. The mandate of the far left is very unworkable. It gets lots of votes in Council Estates however. The left have now got what they have "wished" for, it will be hilarious to see how they deliver it.

I don't see a rainbow coalition as being a viable alternative either. There are too many opportunities for independents to spit the dummy and it will all collapse. There also lies the assumption that the 20 or so independents will support Sinn Féin either, that is not for certain at all.

I would not be surprised to see another election in 2 months, if Sinn Féin can pull together another 20 candidates who would bet against them?

funkey_monkey

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

What is this sordid republic Sinn Fein still want? I wouldn't trust a southerner as far as I could throw one. They weren't friends to Ulster pre plantation so why would we trust southerners now? As far as I am concerned my country will always be the chunk of land containing Derry/Antrim/Tyrone and Donegal, they are the lands of centuries of my family history, not Dublin and Cork.

I think you might have been off sick when your history class was going over Irish history.

I'm from the North and there were plenty not a million miles away who treated those who came before me like sh1t.

amacca

My perception was they were champagne socialists


I thought they were supposed to be standing up for workers rights when in Govt instead they facilitated worsening terms conditions etc under a banner of reform

spineless weasels was what I thought of them as a party.


but I freely admit that could be just perception and far from reality....thing is I think a lot of others thought that too

charlie14

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Mary Lou should be allowed take up the mantle as Taoiseach. She won the election, time to deliver on change.

Politics and becoming Taoiseach doesn`t come down to being allowed.
It comes down to being able to get the majority of TD`s to endorse you.

Sierra Oscar

charlie14 wrote: »

It comes down to being able to get the majority of TD`s to endorse you.

Well, not technically. She can form a minority Government without getting a majority of TD's to endorse her. The opportunity is there for her to form a Government. I think TD's who have stood on a platform of change should now endorse her.

CIARAN_BOYLE

fly_agaric wrote: »

Would generally be a Labour voter so could be my biases showing, but thought they got an awful rough ride off the media when they were in govt. during the crisis period.

FG mudguards for whatever austerity policy of the day was generating public anger + absolutely ripped into by everyone.
FG got off quite lightly & architects of the bust (FF) managed to rehabilitate themselves in the eyes of at least part of the electorate. Seems kind of unfair to me.

I think the issue is that there are a lot of parties competing for the Labour base. Fianna Fail and Fine Gael each have their core support but there is a batch of centrist voters they fight for.

Labour are competing with the Greens and the Social Democrats in the soft left area with pbf/aaa and Sinn Fein offering a harder left alternative. The decline of labour is due to the competition for their base.

charlie14

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Why can't they form a Government with far left Independents, Greens and other groupings who have been calling for change? The opportunity is now there. It's what many of these TD's have spent their entire life campaigning for. Surely they won't back down now that they actually have the opportunity to govern?

That would require a minimum of 43 other TD`s to support SF.
The numbers just are not there for that.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Why can't they form a Government with far left Independents, Greens and other groupings who have been calling for change? The opportunity is now there. It's what many of these TD's have spent their entire life campaigning for. Surely they won't back down now that they actually have the opportunity to govern?

They have spent their lives as champagne socialists, peddling utopian nonsense about equality and free everything, knowing they have no responsibility to deliver on their rhetoric.

Now, suddenly and unexpectedly, the opportunity to go into power is there. But I'd bet that behind the public scenes of jubilation, the party leadership is terrified. They know that any left-wing party that has got into government in Ireland — such as Democratic Left, Labour, or the Greens — has pivoted to the centre and been eviscerated by their base in the next election.

They also know that some grand left coalition composed of SF/Greens/PBP/SD/Independents/etc. would be an highly unstable government. Left-wingers are renowned for splitting divisively over minor issues — and so the government would be lucky to last five weeks, never mind five years.

If SF do go into power and the whole shebang collapses in a shambles, as is highly likely, it will discredit them. If they manage to form a government that endures, they will be unable to implement their promises, and that will also discredit them. Either way, they will get hounded out of the Dail in the next GE.

As the leader of the largest party, Mary Lou naturally has to posture, so she will make a big show of "engaging in negotiations," but at the end of the day she knows that the safest place for SF is the opposition benches.

This is why I personally favour SF going into government. I think the Irish people need to see that Sinn Fein is not a silver bullet -- and that governance is more difficult than the hurlers on the ditch represent it to be.

The Tetrarch

Brock Uninterested Leader wrote: »

This is why I personally favour SF going into government. I think the Irish people need to see that Sinn Fein is not a silver bullet -- and that governance is more difficult than the hurlers on the ditch represent it to be.

I want Sinn Fein in government to see them deliver on their 100+ promises.
There is not enough comedy on RTE

mickdw

Let SF form a government. They seem to have an attitude that they are somehow being prevented from entering government when in fact they themselves are leaning towards using all the oddball TDs as opposed to speaking to either FF or FG.
It will be some government that will be formed out of everyone bar FF and FG. The Kerry spend to get the Healy Raes on board will probably be enough to put a stop to the social housing scheme proposed.

Millionaire only not

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I have to ask who the sinn fein director of elections was?

Whoever it is a ball was dropped by not running an extra 10-15 candidates.

Thks bit of god were bad enough

fly_agaric

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I think the issue is that there are a lot of parties competing for the Labour base. Fianna Fail and Fine Gael each have their core support but there is a batch of centrist voters they fight for.

Labour are competing with the Greens and the Social Democrats in the soft left area with pbf/aaa and Sinn Fein offering a harder left alternative. The decline of labour is due to the competition for their base.

True. It's a very crowded space & they seem distinctly lacking in energy at this point, the wind is with the other parties of the centre left.

amacca wrote:

I thought they were supposed to be standing up for workers rights when in Govt instead they facilitated worsening terms conditions etc under a banner of reform

spineless weasels was what I thought of them as a party.

There were going to be cuts of some sort whoever was in govt. and Labour were never going to get their way 100 % on the policies.
Labour should probably have stayed out of it in hindsight. Think they blunted some of FGs "natural" poor instincts on what cuts to make (we've all seen how tone deaf FG can be sometimes) but received no credit for that of course.
Going into government with the centre right parties just seems to be a disaster for every small left party that has tried it. Their (ex) voters will be gunning for them after it.

LuckyLloyd

fly_agaric wrote: »

There were going to be cuts of some sort whoever was in govt.
Labour should probably have stayed out of it in hindsight. Think they blunted some of FGs "natural" poor instincts on what cuts to make (we've all seen how tone deaf FG can be sometimes) but received no credit for that of course.
Going into government with the centre right parties just seems to be a disaster for every small left party that has tried it.

Did there need to be job path? Did they need to penalise women who worked part time in the 90's so that they wouldn't be able to claim a full pension when they retired? Did they need to go all in on water charges?

They abandoned their policy platform and became a gun for hire in an austerity government. But hey, they were racking up those sweet ministerial pensions.

Time to merge what's left with the Social Democrats imo and retire the old fogies in the process.

charlie14

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Well, not technically. She can form a minority Government without getting a majority of TD's to endorse her. The opportunity is there for her to form a Government. I think TD's who have stood on a platform of change should now endorse her.

With only 37 of 160 TD`s directly answerable to Mary Lou, without a confidence and supply agreement on money bills from one of the other two major parties it just would not work.
Even with a confidence and supply agreement with that other party abstaining on votes of confidence,she would still need around 34 other TD`s to support her or the government would fall.

scooby77

They'll try a hodge podge coalition first. You never know, Fine Gael might buy popcorn, leave them off and abstain. I would.

fly_agaric

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Did there need to be job path? Did they need to penalise women who worked part time in the 90's so that they wouldn't be able to claim a full pension when they retired? Did they need to go all in on water charges?

They abandoned their policy platform and became a gun for hire in an austerity government. But hey, they were racking up those sweet ministerial pensions.

Time to merge what's left with the Social Democrats imo and retire the old fogies in the process.

You tell me (or is it just a (set of) rhetorical questions)?

I don't know the genesis of first of these policies [jobsbridge?] (FG/Labour/Troika "advisers" to the government) but agree it was an awful idea and Labour implemented it.

I don't know anything about the second policy you mention so can't comment.

I think having water charges was a "Troika" policy, and it would be something I'd fully agree with anyway, but I know that's not popular. Having to pay for the water you use to fund public supply and waste treatment infrastructure is not some sort of radical right wing "austerity" policy IMO.

afro man

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Oh shít sorry I forgot about that, the RA are gone now.....also Gerry was never in the IRA ;-)

Strange indeed with all the security forces and English
/ Irish government never had any evidence to charge gerry over the years

subpar

Rebrand required , see if a merger with the SOC DEM's can be agreed , stay out of government till next election. Both parties have some quality candidates who did well in this election but did not get elected . Wall , Ahern and Moynihan for Labour did well given the conditions against them.

Commence a recruitment drive in the 3rd level colleges.

Its time for Howlin to go , he is well meaning but a bit of a windbag. Alan Kelly is the right age and has an edge to him and is good media performer.

There will be lots of votes up for grabs at the next election. The days of unconditional life long party loyalty are over and that will apply to SF too.

hammerdub

Gerry was a great man for attending funerals and carrying coffins of know IRA men funny how he knew them all .

piplip87

afro man wrote: »

Strange indeed with all the security forces and English
/ Irish government never had any evidence to charge gerry over the years

They wouldn't charge one of Thier own. British agent Gerry