New Dail / New Taoiseach

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Rodin wrote: »

You need a technocracy then. Not a democracy (where people aren't chosen on merit)

I think the definition depends on who's choosing. I mean, in a democracy, people are - at least in theory - voting for the people they think are best qualified for a job.

Ministers being appointed on merit, though is a differetn thing. And quiet how some of them are picked is anyone's guess.

Weepsie

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

SF would see it just as Ireland.

They'd be wrong then

blanch152

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Anyone watching prime time? Miriam seems to be on a real ego trip, dominating conversation, cutting everyone off

Very interesting Prime Time.

John Moran, former Secretary General of the Department of Finance, confirmed my view that the Sinn Fein manifesto wasn’t properly costed and had huge downside risks.

However, the most interesting bit was the Joe O’Brien reaction to the David Cullinane issue and his election agent, the Greens are not impressed.

expectationlost

Weepsie wrote: »

Maybe not the right place to ask or state, but I know michelle o Neill is an elected rep of SF in NI and the effective 2nd in command, but she's not elected to representative in the south.

She has no business imo being at any sort of discussion about forming our next government.

is she at any forum of discussing about forming the next government or was she at a SF meeting?

Valhallapt

I'm shocked at the anti Irish sentiment on this thread

Bees Tea

I how there’s no snow if Pearse Doherty has to come from Donegal for the negotiations 🀣

Fr Tod Umptious

blanch152 wrote: »

Very interesting Prime Time.

John Moran, former Secretary General of the Department of Finance, confirmed my view that the Sinn Fein manifesto wasn’t properly costed and had huge downside risks.

However, the most interesting bit was the Joe O’Brien reaction to the David Cullinane issue and his election agent, the Greens are not impressed.

Day 1 - The Black and Tans got a mention.
Day 2 - "The Ra" got a mention.
Day 3 - The Free State was mentioned.
Day 4 - ?

Ash.J.Williams

Emme wrote: »

I hope the homeless are looked after by this incoming government. Nobody should be forced to live in a tent in this day and age. Anyone would be better than the previous incumbent as the Minister for Health, let the replacement prove their mettle and get the Children's Hospital finished at no extra cost. Reduce waiting lists. Ensure the old do not have to wait 36 hours or more in A&E frozen in a hard chair.

Carers and the vulnerable should be looked after better and have cuts restored, retrospectively if possible.

Move jobs outside Dublin and improve the national public transport system so people won't have to commute as long and buying a house an hour or more outside Dublin is a more attractive option. Childcare should be free or subsidized. Right now those who struggle to pay for a house in the extreme commuter belt cannot have a proper family life due to money and time constraints.

Taxpayers want to see their contributions put to work constructively. Not into the pockets of those who profit from the misery of others, ie direct provision landlords.

A lot of working people feel that things will not change no matter what the make up of the new government is.

Only a percentage of rough sleepers can be helped the rest can't be helped

Pintman Paddy Losty

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Day 1 - The Black and Tans got a mention.
Day 2 - "The Ra" got a mention.
Day 3 - The Free State was mentioned.
Day 4 - ?

"There should be state commemorations for the hero's who executed the Kingsmill massacre."

Bishop of hope

A ripple on the markets already since SF election performance.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/markets/investors-dump-irish-banking-and-property-stocks-over-sinn-f%C3%A9in-fears-1.4169139?mode=amp&mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Fmarkets%2Finvestors-dump-irish-banking-and-property-stocks-over-sinn-f%25C3%25A9in-fears-1.4169139

PommieBast

Sleepy wrote: »

While I'm aware that many of the worst offending public sector unions are no longer affiliated with Labour, I don't think the general public are.

I wonder how much of the public realise it was the unions who sold younger teachers down the river over differential pay.

Field east

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Only a percentage of rough sleepers can be helped the rest can't be helped

Wrong. SF will have ‘ways and means/ arsenal of tools/appropriate words of persuasion’ to make sure that all rough sleepers will be housed. If and when SF is no longer in gov , the serial rough sleepers will be back out again - I hope that I am totally wrong but you have to deal with reality. It’s the same with travelers. No matter what efforts are made to house them, some of them just like the freedom of the road/ nomadic lifestyle. Some like summer on the road and settle in a house for the winter

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Day 1 - The Black and Tans got a mention.
Day 2 - "The Ra" got a mention.
Day 3 - The Free State was mentioned.
Day 4 - ?

As long as it's not "scraps from the imperial table" or "no free speech for traitors"...

Field east

BornIn84 wrote: »

I despair at what's to come after comments from ELECTED OFFICIALS saying the "up the ra" and "we broke the bastards" - where is the sophistication and grace of these people.
I want smart people in government - i want people who will work with the budgets they have and don't promise the sun moon and stars because all of those shouting "the tired is turning" will be bitterly disappointed when not much changes...

The comments /songs that are rolled out from the SF side are being played down by SF and played up by the other parties. One key aspect, IMO, has been totally missed in the discussion and is as follows:-
They give a ‘whole new meaning’ to ‘ They have not gone away you know’.
We got a very micro peep as to what is really under the skin when it gets a micro scratch.
If that’s how some SF members behave in public - and its leader/s write such actions off a just emotional reactions and nothing more - then how will it behave behind the scenes. No place is now 100% private because of reporters making every effort to access all kinds of gatherings and because of social media/ mobile phone cameras and recorders.
What was not discussed is the attitude / ethos/us v’s them/ etc, etc, etc ,etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc that existed in SF during the height of the troubles which was in sync with the Various strands of the republican movement are alive and well - we have just got a very brief glimpse of them. SF will obviously keep such aspects of their overall behaviour completely out of public view.

It does not auger well in trying to woo the DUP into an United Ireland, for example. Whatever about SF claiming that FG is disrespecting all the SF voters by not wanting to talk to SF re forming a gov. SF has totally disrespecting circa 46% of the voters by calling them ‘ bastards’ . Imagine dealing with someone who calls you a bastard

zimmermania

Whether we like it or not the people have voted and we must accept the result,i am not too concerned that we may have given a mandate to murderers and those who defend robbers and murderers and frequently sing their praises.

As a former building worker i look forward to the year ahead when every building worker in europe will be here building the 100,000 houses SF PROMISED.

My only concern now is that i have my property tax demand on the table and i am wondering if it will be abolished this year saving me a few hundred quid,i rang my local newly elected SF TDs office but got no repy (still celebrating maybe,now that he does not have to live on the paltry average industrial wage) any information on this would be greatly appreciated.

seamus

Weepsie wrote: »

Maybe not the right place to ask or state, but I know michelle o Neill is an elected rep of SF in NI and the effective 2nd in command, but she's not elected to representative in the south.

She has no business imo being at any sort of discussion about forming our next government.

She's the vice-president of the party to be fair. Given that what happens in the Republic affects the North, I have no issue with her presence. She should be there as an observer only though, not with a seat at the table.

BluePlanet

Field east wrote: »

It does not auger well in trying to woo the DUP into an United Ireland, for example.

Huh?
You don't really believe the DUP can be woo'd into a United Ireland do you?

Field east

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I think the definition depends on who's choosing. I mean, in a democracy, people are - at least in theory - voting for the people they think are best qualified for a job.

Ministers being appointed on merit, though is a differetn thing. And quiet how some of them are picked is anyone's guess.

‘Best qualified for the job’ applies except if you are a SF candidate - you can even go on your holidays during the canvassing time and we , the voters , will look after them. And a lot of the SF candidates in the local/EU elections were not good enough for those posts but when it came to the Dail elections they were more than good enough. Must have been due to a CRASH course . In the In -house SF ‘school for political advancement’. It probably has , within that structure, a Carr Communications type service. Otherwise how can you explain their spokespersons way with words, /ability to deflect/ not answer questions but above have the ability to put most interviewers in their place and not allowing them in until they have said what they want to say - irrespective of what was asked

Field east

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Her brother was in foul mood on drive time earlier too. Bad couple of days for FF members.

Poor Mary Wilson. It could come back to haunt him. RTE staff are like a family and they could be all watching out for an opportunity to ‘meet ‘him

Field east

BluePlanet wrote: »

Huh?
You don't really believe the DUP can be woo'd into a United Ireland do you?

Of course it would not be their first choice, but it’s position might have now gone from ‘very reluctant’ to extremely reluctant’ as a result of SF ‘s ‘music’

firemansam4

As a former worker in the building industry I remember the days of the construction boom back around 2005, so many builder workers across Europe came to help with the labour shortages,
They were building more houses and apartments just to house these new workers from europe.
Apartments, houses being built everywhere and prices were still going up.

I remember thinking to myself at the time that there could be one hell of a crash if it all turns around. Some economists warned about it but the government at the time said there could only be a soft landing in the property market.

BluePlanet

Field east wrote: »

Of course it would not be their first choice, but it’s position might have now gone from ‘very reluctant’ to extremely reluctant’ as a result of SF ‘s ‘music’

A United Ireland will come about by referendum.
The DUP will never support it, ever.
It's something the people of Ireland, north and south will impose on them.

PommieBast

firemansam4 wrote: »

I remember thinking to myself at the time that there could be one hell of a crash if it all turns around. Some economists warned about it but the government at the time said there could only be a soft landing in the property market.

https://web.archive.org/web/20050701012325/http://housepricecrash.co.uk/


Cannot find the great video they made around the same time though..

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

Sinn Fein got 24% of the 1st pref votes and got 24% of the seats.

The Green Party got 7.4% of 1st Pref votes and 7.5% of the seats.

FF got 22% of the 1st Prf votes and 24% of the seats.

FG got 20% of 1st Pref and 21.8% of the seats.

Isn't STV a marvelous and democratic system. If SF had more candidates, they may not have got more 1st Pref votes, but may well have got more seats, but not certain.

No landslide or dividend for any party. It is spin to suggest a party with less than 25% of the vote has a landslide.

It is likely that at least two of the above parties will need to go into coalition to form a government, but probably three of them.

Just to quote my own post. (Apologise for that).

Is the media, and in particular RTE unable to see the 'landslide' for SF as nothing much.

SF got less than 25% of the seats and votes. That is not a landslide. If they had more candidates, they would have got more seats in some constituencies, but if they had more candidates in others they may have not got the seat. The percentage of 1st pref votes and seats is a close match for SF, FF, FG, and the GP.

No landslide, just a good day for SF and GP, and a bad day for FF and FG.

MLMcD was out trying to form a Gov on Sunday morning before a single vote had been counted. She is now chasing small left leaning parties trying to form a Gov but cannot get to 80 with those parties. FF and FG have 72 seats between them.

The first rule of parliamentary democracy is to be able to count the votes you have.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Field east wrote: »

‘Best qualified for the job’ applies except if you are a SF candidate - you can even go on your holidays during the canvassing time and we , the voters , will look after them. And a lot of the SF candidates in the local/EU elections were not good enough for those posts but when it came to the Dail elections they were more than good enough. Must have been due to a CRASH course . In the In -house SF ‘school for political advancement’. It probably has , within that structure, a Carr Communications type service. Otherwise how can you explain their spokespersons way with words, /ability to deflect/ not answer questions but above have the ability to put most interviewers in their place and not allowing them in until they have said what they want to say - irrespective of what was asked

You lose me at Carr Communications.

Actually, you lost me in the first sentence - I was commenting on political theory, you appear to be ranting against SF.

Hotblack Desiato

STB. wrote: »

They delivered austerity, froze pay

FF/Greens cut pay, quite drastically

introduced a universal social charge

FF/Greens introduced the USC.

The reality is that the country is set back decades, with no money left for infrastructure nor services.

Yet FF and Greens who caused all this by guaranteeing the banks, are rehabilitated.

I'm not a Labour supporter, but they were the only party to vote against the bank guarantee which is what actually bankrupted the country.

PommieBast wrote: »

I wonder how much of the public realise it was the unions who sold younger teachers down the river over differential pay.

Not true whatsoever, pay cuts for new entrants were imposed by FF/Greens, not negotiated. Also it's not just teachers or nurses, but teaching and nursing were basically the only areas they couldn't stop recruitment entirely which they did everywhere else - they even shut down Templemore for a few years which is why policing is in a state

PommieBast

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Not true whatsoever, pay cuts for new entrants were imposed by FF/Greens, not negotiated. Also it's not just teachers or nurses, but teaching and nursing were basically the only areas they couldn't stop recruitment entirely which they did everywhere else - they even shut down Templemore for a few years which is why policing is in a state

Haddington Road agreement.

jm08

Field east wrote: »

It does not auger well in trying to woo the DUP into an United Ireland, for example. Whatever about SF claiming that FG is disrespecting all the SF voters by not wanting to talk to SF re forming a gov. SF has totally disrespecting circa 46% of the voters by calling them ‘ bastards’ . Imagine dealing with someone who calls you a bastard

Free Staters* were called the bastards, not the electorate.


*Fine Gael whose origins are that they supported the Treaty/partition.

Field east

BluePlanet wrote: »

A United Ireland will come about by referendum.
The DUP will never support it, ever.
It's something the people of Ireland, north and south will impose on them.

You are probably right but don’t give the DUP loads of ‘ammo’ to voice it’s objection to holding a referendum/ outcome thereof.

subpar

PommieBast wrote: »

I wonder how much of the public realise it was the unions who sold younger teachers down the river over differential pay.

Yes , teachers and their Union Officials should hang their heads in shame. They opted to brake a basic code of trade union membership i.e. equal pay for equal work.

All they had to do at the time of the callaspe of the economy was in to take a 5 euro pay cut a week for EVERY teacher and that would have achieved the payroll savings that the Government were forced to make.

Blaming the Labour Party for this is very wrong.