New Dail / New Taoiseach

Quin_Dub

road_high wrote: »

Sadly you’ve stumbled on the big issue here -“get in and deliver the stuff they claimed”. This is the key to the obvious reticence, excuses and constant putting back in ff or FG. That’s why you have MLM dancing and singing like an idiot on tv instead of the real work. Very little of the slurry that was the SF election manifesto is remotely deliverable. They know this. This is the oppositions ace card and they’d be very foolish to let sf off the hook now. The only way you show SF up for what they are is making sure they govern, no weaselling out of it and show us the “change” they sold

Agreed - Hiding behind the "we want to lead a left coalition" blah blah .

When the reality is that they know that they can't deliver their manifesto , but this is the difference between government and opposition.

Compromise and negotiation - neither of which they seem willing or possibly able to do.

cantwbr1

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Sour grapes post really. This isn't a reality that's going to happen and its not SF's fault that it won't.
They won't get support from sol/pbp, the Labour Party or the sds most likely.
The best chance of forming a Govt, probably the only one is for two of the three biggies to come together, and since neither FG or FF will countenance doing business with SF then it's up to them to do something that is an alternative.

This is a real cop out. We keep being told that the election was a vote for change, change to the left but all the left are saying is that we can’t work together.

Surely any government which includes either FF or FG isn’t the “change we voted for”.

As was already stated there are enough TDs to have a minority government even allowing for the “conservative” independents to be left out.

Bishop of hope

cantwbr1 wrote: »

This is a real cop out. We keep being told that the election was a vote for change, change to the left but all the left are saying is that we can’t work together.

Surely any government which includes either FF or FG isn’t the “change we voted for”.

As was already stated there are enough TDs to have a minority government even allowing for the “conservative” independents to be left out.

Cop out on who's behalf?
I already named the amount of groups that won't go in with SF apart from FF and FG.
Where's your Boyd Barretts, Murphy and Murphy and Ryan.
I'm no SF fan by any means, but if change is what's needed then they too have to step up.
We are on a difficult year I think with brexit, we need stable Govt and it can't be formed without at least two of the big three.
We will be back at the polls very soon even if a minority Govt is formed unless a big coalition happens!

Scoondal

On Thursday 20th February, will we have new ministers in a "care taker" government going to The President for their positions to get the Presidential approval ?

cantwbr1

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Cop out on who's behalf?
I already named the amount of groups that won't go in with SF apart from FF and FG.
Where's your Boyd Barretts, Murphy and Murphy and Ryan.
I'm no SF fan by any means, but if change is what's needed then they too have to step up.
We are on a difficult year I think with brexit, we need stable Govt and it can't be formed without at least two of the big three.
We will be back at the polls very soon even if a minority Govt is formed unless a big coalition happens!

I agree and fully include all named above in the cop out.
It very much comes across that many of them want all the perks of being a TD but none of the responsibilities

Scoondal

Our Taoiseach in waiting is going to be rejected by Dail Eireann on Thursday. Not wanted by our recently elected T.D.s.

Scoondal

And Sinn Fein will try to convince a democratic and intelligent electorate that Sinn Fein won the General Election.

WomanSkirtFan8

realdanbreen wrote: »

All Pears has to do is propose Mary Lou for Taoiseach get a seconder and if she gets enough votes she's in so simple.

Except that it doesn't work like that. Have to have 80 seats or more to form a government. The election of Taoiseach is down to a Dail vote so she's in no way guaranteed to be taoiseach now or at any time in the immediate future.

jimmycrackcorm

Scoondal wrote: »

And Sinn Fein will try to convince a democratic and intelligent electorate that Sinn Fein won the General Election.

If they were brutally honest they'd stop whining that people voted for "change" and admit that people voted for them in protest.

If people voted for change then there would be enough numbers for SF to lead a government.

corkie

^^^ What? There is no one going to President till another 'Taoiseach' is elected or 'Leo Varadkar' needs to call another election?

Already a 'Leo Varadkar' lead caretaker goverment in place since 32 dail was dissolved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Members_of_the_32nd_D%C3%A1il

The 32nd Dáil convened for the first time at 10.30 am on 10 March 2016.[1] Its first act was to elect a Ceann Comhairle. It was dissolved by President Michael D. Higgins on the request of Taoiseach Leo Varadkar on 14 January 2020.[2]

Scoondal

People voted for FG in 2011 "for change". Some people just vote for change ... it's not a considered vote. They say"ah I just want a change".
Now we will have a caretaker government. Nothing will be changed.

Scoondal

corkie wrote: »

^^^ What? There is no one going to President till another 'Taoiseach' is elected or 'Leo Varadkar' needs to call another election?

Already a 'Leo Varadkar' lead caretaker goverment in place since 32 dail was dissolved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Members_of_the_32nd_D%C3%A1il

So will the caretaker government not have a Minister for Transport ?

corkie

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/libraryResearch/2016/2016-06-28_caretaker-governments-and-caretaker-conventions_en.pdf

1.Caretaker governments in Ireland
In Ireland, under Article 28.11.1 of the Constitution, the incumbent Taoiseach and Ministers remain in office as a caretaker government until a successor is appointed.This is the case even where the Taoiseach or Ministers are not re-elected as members of the incoming Dáil. Ministers of State also remain in office, even if not re-elected.

James Brown

corkie wrote: »

^^^ What? There is no one going to President till another 'Taoiseach' is elected or 'Leo Varadkar' needs to call another election?

Already a 'Leo Varadkar' lead caretaker goverment in place since 32 dail was dissolved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Members_of_the_32nd_D%C3%A1il

Since Enda 'good for a laugh' Kenny stepped down.

James Brown

Every election so far has been swayed by putting manners of FF or FG. Hopefully we are seeing signs of an end to that.
Any 'change' depends on the policies enacted.

Scoondal

corkie wrote: »

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/libraryResearch/2016/2016-06-28_caretaker-governments-and-caretaker-conventions_en.pdf

Thanks, that is the information that I wanted.
Someone who is not even a T.D. remains as a minister in a caretaker government.

Riskymove

WomanSkirtFan8 wrote: »

Except that it doesn't work like that. .

yes it does

you get enough votes then you are Taoiseach as you set out yourself

HalloweenJack

Scoondal wrote: »

Thanks, that is the information that I wanted.
Someone who is not even a T.D. remains as a minister in a caretaker government.

If having an unelected minister is a problem for you, get on to your local TD's that represent the big three parties from this election and stress the importance of putting aside differences and forming a Government that consists of elected representatives for ministers.

If party politices cannot step aside for the national interest then this will be one of the consequences until they come to their senses or there's another election.

Scoondal

HalloweenJack wrote: »

If having an unelected minister is a problem for you, get on to your local TD's that represent the big three parties from this election and stress the importance of putting aside differences and forming a Government that consists of elected representatives for ministers.

If party politices cannot step aside for the national interest then this will be one of the consequences until they come to their senses or there's another election.

My T.D.s are Independant, FF and Social Democtat. How can they form a government ? SF won't put the "establishment" back into government.

FrancieBrady

Scoondal wrote: »

And Sinn Fein will try to convince a democratic and intelligent electorate that Sinn Fein won the General Election.

Somebody is trying to convince the same electorate that they were 'defeated'. If somebody is defeated does that not mean that somebody won?

Leo Varadkar wrote:

"It may have been a tight finish, but we were defeated so that means that people are saying to us that Fine Gael should go into opposition and we are absolutely willing to do that."

Nevin Parsnipp

Shinners deserve a chance to be in government....let's see what they can do.....some of their recently elected gorillas are fcucking up already.

Let's have them....

James Brown

Scoondal wrote: »

My T.D.s are Independant, FF and Social Democtat. How can they form a government ? SF won't put the "establishment" back into government.

Neither will the SD's. And FG are already resigned to opposition and FF won't work with SF. So looks like an election.

HalloweenJack

Scoondal wrote: »

My T.D.s are Independant, FF and Social Democtat. How can they form a government ? SF won't put the "establishment" back into government.

FF have the most seats and they love being in power. Get in touch with the FFer and let them know that FF should be doing all they can to form a coalition. Stress your preference for an "Anyone but SF" coalition while also pointing out your problem with having unelected representatives as ministers. The only reason FF can't/won't form a Government is their own egos (and that of other political parties).

Also contact the Indie and the SD member and stress that they should support any coalition to make sure that the Minister for Transport is actually an elected TD as soon as possible.

Or just accept that this is a consequence of an election with no clear winner and you will have to suck up a few months of an unelected minister.

hotmail.com

Scoondal wrote: »

On Thursday 20th February, will we have new ministers in a "care taker" government going to The President for their positions to get the Presidential approval ?

This happened 4 years ago.

The outgoing ministers who lost their seats stayed on as ministers but only received the equivalent of a TD salary.

The caretaker government has no mandate to introduce change. So I'm not really sure what they do in this period.

James Brown

Kelly is merely the loudest. They should pick someone who didn't back the IW quango. It should be someone who supported the public's right to protest. Y'know Labour stuff.

Scoondal

Bowie wrote: »

Neither will the SD's. And FG are already resigned to opposition and FF won't work with SF. So looks like an election.

The electorate have already voted. So, we voted wrong and they want us to vote the right way now ?
No way, I will start a campaign against another election this year.
We voted ... we did our job ... TDs, deal with it.

STB.

PatrickSmithUS wrote: »

Howlin not running for Ceann Comhairle is costing them an easy additional seat in the next election.

George Lawlor would romp home in Wexford without Howling in the race.

He is not held in as much high regard as he possibly holds himself.

Kelly for all his soundbites about going back to basics wouldn't be someone I would trust. He lost the run of himself when he was Minister for Environment. Yet a complete gem at the Oireachtas Committee meetings when in opposition.

And the basics that the labour party need to get back to is trust. Don't promise stuff you cannot deliver. Do not list them. Do not shaft your electorate. There was a time when they were the safe pair of hands when the other centre rights parties got out of line/people had enough of them. They will have to regain that trust and it will be tough. SF are now filling that void and they have no track record and have largely been voted in on the basis of one word.

Change.

hotmail.com

With the greatest respect to Aodhan who seems like a very nice man, he isn't really a man of the people full of charisma.

He probably wants to talk about Trump and other matters that don't interest or affect people in Ireland.

Riskymove

Sure we had a Taoiseach in 2011 who was no longer a TD

Poor_old_gill

It’s between Kelly & o Riordan.

The former seems to have copped on a bit and has the backing of big Willie penrose- which is a plus in my eyes.

O riordan is so used to flip flopping on his position that hes probably simultaneously running for the position and backing Kelly for the leadership