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New Dail / New Taoiseach

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    #782
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    At least there was a challenger to Leo in Simon Coveney

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-leadership-race-leo-varadkar-wins-vote-among-councillors-as-counting-continues-35782502.html

    I notice how when you are caught out you revert to deflection the much practiced dark art of SF.
    You cannot tell me that a woman southerner was just given the hot seat in SF after a virtual dictatorship of Gerry Adams for 30 plus years - was a bit odd for any democratic party.

    Tell us what you know of the selection process of the SF leader?

    I think it was The Sunday Times that was claiming that the 'Army Council' was opposed to her becoming leader before she was elected.

    Not very good at the 'overarching strategy' those Army Council guys eh?

    BTW The Fine Gael members choice of leader was ignored.


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    #783
    WomanSkirtFan8
    Registered Users Posts: 768 ✭✭✭WomanSkirtFan8


    kilburn wrote: »
    Personally I wouldn't want my country run by people who take advise from terrorists

    Here here. I second that.


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    #784
    Umaro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭Umaro


    Wasn't the First Dáil full of former terrorists?

    Or is that different somehow?


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    #785
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Umaro wrote: »
    Wasn't the First Dáil full of former terrorists?

    Or is that different somehow?

    Some members of FF came to the '38 Dáil armed. :)


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    #786
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    FrancieBrady wrote: »

    BTW The Fine Gael members choice of leader was ignored.
    It's a democratic process and any rule changes are approved at an Ard Fheis.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Fine_Gael_leadership_election#Electoral_process

    FF leader selection is limited to parliamentary party and Labour TDs only.


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    #787
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It's a democratic process and any rule changes are approved at an Ard Fheis.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Fine_Gael_leadership_election#Electoral_process

    FF leader selection is limited to parliamentary party and Labour TDs only.

    And SF's (according to a member here) is selected/nominated by individual cumann's and voted on at the Ard Fheis.


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    #788
    Bishop of hope
    Registered Users Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    And SF's (according to a member here) is selected/nominated by individual cumann's and voted on at the Ard Fheis.

    I know a lad beside me, he went to a meeting with another local young fella who was going on in the last locals for SF, they were looking for volunteers for to help with the campaign and the canvas.
    Two lads from Armagh turned up and took the meeting and directed how the campaign should be run, a bit odd for a Longford local candidate don't you think?


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    #789
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Bishop of hope wrote: »
    I know a lad beside me, he went to a meeting with another local young fella who was going on in the last locals for SF, they were looking for volunteers for to help with the campaign and the canvas.
    Two lads from Armagh turned up and took the meeting and directed how the campaign should be run, a bit odd for a Longford local candidate don't you think?

    'Directed' How?

    Is it possible it might have been advice?

    Seriously difficult to take this stuff seriously. I know loads of shinners of different opinions and views. They don't strike me as 'directable', if it wasn't what they wanted to do.


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    #790
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,545 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    Lets face it Francie. There has only ever been Gerry as leader as long as I can remember.

    And even when he is now retired he still keeps showing up just to keep an eye on things. It is kind of hard to believe that Mary Lou is fully in charge with Adams hovering about in the background all the time.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/it-s-like-freshers-week-first-day-in-d%C3%A1il-for-new-sinn-f%C3%A9in-tds-1.4173089


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    #791
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    kilburn wrote: »
    Personally I wouldn't want my country run by people who take advise from terrorists

    Well apartheid South Africa would never have come to an end had it followed your logic because the ANC had a terrorist wing which engaged in bombings of civilians and a landmine campaign.

    So presumably that should have applied to the North as well in your mind?


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    #792
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    sid waddell wrote: »
    Well apartheid South Africa would never have come to an end had it followed your logic because the ANC had a terrorist wing which engaged in bombings of civilians and a landmine campaign.

    So presumably that should have applied to the North as well in your mind?

    Northern Ireland is not the Republic of Ireland.
    Whatever they do up there with their government is of no consequence to us down here.
    We should however have a problem with terrorists being advisors to members of the government of our country.


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    #793
    Bishop of hope
    Registered Users Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    'Directed' How?

    Is it possible it might have been advice?

    Seriously difficult to take this stuff seriously. I know loads of shinners of different opinions and views. They don't strike me as 'directable', if it wasn't what they wanted to do.

    Chaired and took points and said any statements made by the candidate or his representatives had to be subject to party policy and that superceded local issues.
    Any press releases or public statements had to be pre approved by these two men, they were SF members, they were in charge of the campaign.


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    #794
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Bishop of hope wrote: »
    Chaired and took points and said any statements made by the candidate or his representatives had to be subject to party policy and that superceded local issues.
    Any press releases or public statements had to be pre approved by these two men, they were SF members, they were in charge of the campaign.

    Well, as I said, my experience of SF members is that they wouldn't tolerate that control for a second.

    And my own experience is all I can go on.


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    #795
    Umaro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭Umaro


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Northern Ireland is not the Republic of Ireland.
    Whatever they do up there with their government is of no consequence to us down here.
    We should however have a problem with terrorists being advisors to members of the government of our country.

    Were FG aware that SF is run by a shadowy IRA Army Council when they were helping to re-install them in Stormont a few weeks ago?

    That's incredibly reckless to install a paramilitary organisation into power in a foreign country. It's like something the CIA would do.

    Weird how they're only aware of it now that SF could get into power in this country.


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    #796
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Umaro wrote: »
    Were FG aware that SF is run by a shadowy IRA Army Council when they were helping to re-install them in Stormont a few weeks ago?

    That's incredibly reckless to install a paramilitary organisation into power in a foreign country. It's like something the CIA would do.

    Weird how they're only aware of it now that SF could get into power in this country.

    The 'difficult' questions nobody wants to address.

    The north is 'different' will be the answer, because it suits. :D


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    #797
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Northern Ireland is not the Republic of Ireland.
    Whatever they do up there with their government is of no consequence to us down here.
    We should however have a problem with terrorists being advisors to members of the government of our country.
    Well it is of consequence to us actually as Ireland is a signatory of the Good Friday Agreement.

    Who are these terrorists?

    Do you mean former terrorists?

    Former terrorists like the ANC in South Africa?


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    #798
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    sid waddell wrote: »
    Well it is of consequence to us actually as Ireland is a signatory of the Good Friday Agreement.

    Who are these terrorists?

    Do you mean former terrorists?

    Former terrorists like the ANC in South Africa?

    I prefer the actual people I vote for to be the actual people in charge, not some men no-one knows.
    I don't want terrorists or former terrorists running our country.


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    #799
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,699 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The 'difficult' questions nobody wants to address.

    The north is 'different' will be the answer, because it suits. :D


    The north is different, it is a colonial appendage, not a normal place.

    This is a fundamental tenet of SF policy, yet they are willing to abandon it for political point scoring, which in itself reflects poorly on them.


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    #800
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I prefer the actual people I vote for to be the actual people in charge, not some men no-one knows.
    I don't want terrorists or former terrorists running our country.

    Were Fine Gael in charge when the Troika were here?

    Who was really in charge at the time of the bank guarantee?

    Has any government in the history of this state not had its policies heavily influenced by business interests?

    We voted for the Good Friday Agreement. Sinn Fein came into the political process with our agreement. The IRA is no longer active.

    You don't have to vote for Sinn Fein, I didn't vote for them either. But this is what we voted for in 1998 - that as a result of a negotiated peace settlement approved by the people north and south of the border, there would be the possibility that Sinn Fein could enter into government in Ireland in the future.


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    #801
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,774 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Umaro wrote: »
    Were FG aware that SF is run by a shadowy IRA Army Council when they were helping to re-install them in Stormont a few weeks ago?

    That's incredibly reckless to install a paramilitary organisation into power in a foreign country. It's like something the CIA would do.

    Weird how they're only aware of it now that SF could get into power in this country.
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The 'difficult' questions nobody wants to address.

    The north is 'different' will be the answer, because it suits. :D

    The north is different when it suits Mary Lou. Getting he paras in Stormont was the only way they would stop killing gardai, killing RUC, putting bombs in rubbish bins and cars etc. Plus 'up there' there is a pair of them in it. Both claiming they 'won' the war.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #802
    Rosahane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭Rosahane


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Did you miss the challenge to Michelle O'Neill lately?

    Are you aware how Leo was'annointed' chosen as leader?

    Who elected O’Neill as Deputy Leader in 2108? I don’t remember anything other than the announcement that she was appointed.


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    #803
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,774 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The 'difficult' questions nobody wants to address.

    The north is 'different' will be the answer, because it suits. :D
    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    The north is different, it is a colonial appendage, not a normal place.

    This is a fundamental tenet of SF policy, yet they are willing to abandon it for political point scoring, which in itself reflects poorly on them.

    Sure FrancieBrady has said as much on numerous occasions on other threads. He resorts to just being disingenuous when he cannot think of anything of note to say.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #804
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Sure FrancieBrady has said as much on numerous occasions on other threads. He resorts to just being disingenuous when he cannot think of anything of note to say.

    That's because I think it is different and cannot be compared.

    What I was sending up was FG in particular pivoting from it being the same, when they want to criticise SF's abilities to it being 'different' when it comes to why they encourage a party they won't work with here to go into government there.


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    #805
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The 'difficult' questions nobody wants to address.

    The north is 'different' will be the answer, because it suits. :D

    The north is different. If it were the same as almost every other political system in Europe SF wouldn't get a smell of power there. The GFA is designed to give the belligerents in particular a share of power in NI.
    Talking of difficult questions, you seem to have missed post 780.


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    #806
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    feargale wrote: »
    The north is different. If it were the same as almost every other political system in Europe SF wouldn't get a smell of power there. The GFA is designed to give the belligerents in particular a share of power in NI.
    Talking of difficult questions, you seem to have missed post 780.

    I disagree on how SF would do there in a normal state. Nobody is forcing people from all walks of life to vote for them.


    I can't see a question that makes sense in 780. You seem to want an answer from MLMD.


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    #807
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I can't see a question that makes sense in 780. You seem to want an answer from MLMD.

    Exactly. You had plenty to say about it until an awkward question was asked, but in typical SF fashion when you don't like the question you skip it and hope nobody will notice.
    Not for the first time.


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    #808
    Triangle
    Registered Users Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Triangle


    Umaro wrote: »
    Were FG aware that SF is run by a shadowy IRA Army Council when they were helping to re-install them in Stormont a few weeks ago?

    That's incredibly reckless to install a paramilitary organisation into power in a foreign country. It's like something the CIA would do.

    Weird how they're only aware of it now that SF could get into power in this country.

    That's absolutely crazy........

    They went into power, unionists and republicans to stop the violence, bombings, murders, rocket launches, intimidation and having pretty much a police state (wire blockades, heavily armed military).
    Pushing for a political solution (no matter their backing) was a way of moving forward.
    We don't have those issues, so it's not similar or 'CIA' typical. It was a route to peace and growth.

    Having a 'possible' backing of paramilitary forces or polarised agenda should be a moment for pause and questioning - not hysterics and emotional defence.

    And I'm a voice for change, there are lots of options out there not getting a voice because we're getting so polarised in SF VS FFG


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    #809
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    feargale wrote: »
    Exactly. You had plenty to say about it until an awkward question was asked, but in typical SF fashion when you don't like the question you skip it and hope nobody will notice.
    Not for the first time.

    Ask the question again. Make it make sense. I have no idea what you are asking of me.
    While I voted for SF this time, I am not a member btw.


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    #810
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    I see the Shinners are taking it to the streets (including the streets of Newry for some arcane reason), oh dear.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-rallies-for-govenrment-for-change-5018083-Feb2020/
    “Over the coming fortnight, Sinn Féin will host the first of a series of public rallies to bring the conversation about a Government for Change to the people. This will include events in Cork, Dublin, Newry, Cavan and Galway.”

    Awful whiff of Norn Iron style mobilising here.


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    #811
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,413 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    I see the Shinners are taking it to the streets (including the streets of Newry for some arcane reason), oh dear.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-rallies-for-govenrment-for-change-5018083-Feb2020/



    Awful whiff of Norn Iron style mobilising here.

    Adolf hitler did something similar in 1930s Germany too though he had 38% of the vote. One can see the parallels alright.
    I can foresee violence and property destruction at these mania rallies so I hope local businesses prepare themselves well


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