New Dail / New Taoiseach

Field east

MintyMagnum wrote: »

Just heard Pearse Doherty suggesting this on Rte1 - thoughts..

Of much more interest will be who will fill the finance position -probably not FF because it crashed the economy a few times; the health , housing and social welfare ministries

Field east

marvin80 wrote: »

To be fair they've all made promises they won't be keeping.

Except for SF

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

20silkcut wrote: »

Yes 100 years ago the people of Ireland threw the monopoly board up in the air started a new game and voted en- masse for a party called Sinn Fein.

While it's a long time since I've played, I don't remember the game ever lasting that long.

But my point is simple: the only difference between rich people and poor people iin many, many cases is fortune.

Field east

fergus1001 wrote: »

tax breaks for the people that need it/encourage work in areas needed

why are we building f***ing offices with tax breaks if there are no houses to house the damn workers

I must be living in a different world. Was in Dublin two was ago and saw high rise cranes towering over at least 4 sites building accommodation blocks - and this was in a very small part of dublin

Field east

daheff wrote: »

Does that mean we'll get cash for ash in the Free State now too??

Yes, as they say ‘ it’s payback time’. The outgoing gov have been sooooooo tight with the country’s finances - notwithstanding the fact that it inherited an unprecedented deficit in 2011 and had no surplus money to invest for MOST OF THE NINE YEARS it was in power🏝😀!!!

Field east

Hermy wrote: »

So Sinn Féin don't want to abolish the Special Criminal Court?

Please do educate me.

It has not said that it wants to get Rid of the SCC. It wants to set up a committee - of one judge- to review it. To me, SF is taking the the ‘ tourist route’ to have it ‘ regigged’ or got rid of

is_that_so

Field east wrote: »

It has not said that it wants to get Rid of the SCC. It wants to set up a committee - of one judge- to review it. To me, SF is taking the the ‘ tourist route’ to have it ‘ regigged’ or got rid of

They did want to scrap it until recently so this is a crablike shuffle on that. Mary Lou would not give straight answer on it in the last debate.

Emme

I hope the homeless are looked after by this incoming government. Nobody should be forced to live in a tent in this day and age. Anyone would be better than the previous incumbent as the Minister for Health, let the replacement prove their mettle and get the Children's Hospital finished at no extra cost. Reduce waiting lists. Ensure the old do not have to wait 36 hours or more in A&E frozen in a hard chair.

Carers and the vulnerable should be looked after better and have cuts restored, retrospectively if possible.

Move jobs outside Dublin and improve the national public transport system so people won't have to commute as long and buying a house an hour or more outside Dublin is a more attractive option. Childcare should be free or subsidized. Right now those who struggle to pay for a house in the extreme commuter belt cannot have a proper family life due to money and time constraints.

Taxpayers want to see their contributions put to work constructively. Not into the pockets of those who profit from the misery of others, ie direct provision landlords.

A lot of working people feel that things will not change no matter what the make up of the new government is.

Field east

martingriff wrote: »

1 Brexit is done
2. If you think Sein Fein in Westminster given what went on over there would have changed things you are very sorely mistaken

(1) the relevant aspect of brexit is just about to start
(2) we are all experts in hindsight. A lot of the voting was very tight at the time

is_that_so

Field east wrote: »

(1) the relevant aspect of brexit is just about to start
(2) we are all experts in hindsight. A lot of the voting was very tight at the time

For now the same team are in place on Brexit and could be for quite a bit!

Lavinia

charlie14 wrote: »

I don`t know what that says tbh, as it only covers 55 seats out of the 160.

Percentage of the total first preference vote is a true reflection of voting trends.

means pretty obviously that SF won these elections by popular vote by being 3 miles ahead...


even when all votes will be redistributed..



as of this morning eg 78 TDs

seamus

It's funny to hear the wailing and shouting from both sides of the aisle.

Obama promised "change". The first black president, and seemingly the most liberal ones in decades. People were expecting sweeping reforms and positive change. Didn't happen.

Likewise, Sinn Féin won't deliver much change in government. They're career politicians no different from any others. Promise the sun, moon and stars, change tack once you take office and the reality bites. As a coalition partner, they'll be a useful foil to FF (or FG), to soften their policies. As a coalition leader, they'll spend more time balancing ideologies than actually getting things done.

They won't bankrupt the country or start taxing people and companies out of existence. They'll have a chat to business leaders over a few gilded lunches and Pearse and Mary-Lou will realise that any major tax reform is not going to make them popular people. So in order to hold onto their ministerial pensions, they'll go easy. They're no different to the others; their eyes are on getting re-elected at the next round and nothing more.

This is a protest vote that has gone Sinn Féin's way. This is why previously unknown or unpopular candidates have gone within nine months from a few hundred votes, to having surpluses on the first count. None of these candidates knocked on enough doors or held enough public meetings to explain this. It's not about a stellar online game or stellar campaigning. It's the fact that people have decided that it's time to give Sinn Féin a go. And Sinn Féin need to capitalise on this now, these borrowed votes won't be sticking around if SF don't go into government.

That's not to say SF didn't play this well. The RTE exit poll indicates that SF managed to hit exactly the right notes. Health and housing is what people care about. Leo went with Brexit and earnings. Martin went with tax.

Turns out the majority of people don't care about tax (66% are happy to pay more tax for better services), aren't too worried about Brexit, and just want someone to sort out health and housing. Sinn Féin promised to raise taxes, spend on public services, and work on health and housing. This is what people wanted to hear, enough to give SF a chance despite their IRA members.

So no, don't expect any sweeping change, for better or worse, from this. A change of tack from FF & FG for sure, and that's no bad thing. The conservatives have been properly kicked this time around. Irish people don't want anti-immigration, pro-religion, isolationist, staunch conservatives anywhere near our parliament.

Gonna be a rough few months for SF though. After the elation of the next few weeks, DOB's media will go to town on them. Lots of fresh-faced TDs, very little experience, lots of desire to get front and centre. And with a truckload of dodgy personal history that is going to get dragged up and thrown at them continuously. And if it is a left coalition that gets put together, it's going to be hard to hold it together when the past personal misdeeds of SF TDs are thrown into the public domain.

washman3

handlemaster wrote: »

We had Trump and Boris. Now Mary Lou

Throw in Haughey, Bertie, Enda and Leo while you're at it...;)

nkl12xtw5goz70

seamus wrote: »

This is a protest vote that has gone Sinn Féin's way. This is why previously unknown or unpopular candidates have gone within nine months from a few hundred votes, to having surpluses on the first count.

Indeed. Protest votes can be fickle, with dramatic surges followed by sudden collapses, as I'm sure Peter Casey can attest today — having gone from 23 percent of the popular vote in the presidential election to just 1.5 percent of the first-preference vote in Donegal on Saturday.

I'm all for instating Mary Lou as Taoiseach and giving Sinn Fein their day in the sun. The people will quickly realize that SF can't back up their big promises, will learn from their mistakes, and will vote more pragmatically next time around. But this infantile romance with hard-left socialism and/or the legacy of paramilitary terrorism has to end if we are to move forward as a country, and that can only be done by actually putting SF in power rather than letting them exist as a utopian fantasy.

It's easy to be a perpetual hurler on the ditch. It's much harder to govern and take responsibility for decisions. I do hope the electorate will soon get to witness the spectacle of inexperienced left-wing populists making decisions that affect their futures. It's not going to go well.

Bishop of hope

Brock Uninterested Leader wrote: »

Indeed. Protest votes can be fickle, with dramatic surges followed by sudden collapses, as I'm sure Peter Casey can attest today — having gone from 23 percent of the popular vote in the presidential election to just 1.5 percent of the first-preference vote in Donegal on Saturday.

I'm all for instating Mary Lou as Taoiseach and giving Sinn Fein their day in the sun. The people will quickly realize that SF can't back up their big promises, will learn from their mistakes, and will vote more pragmatically next time around. But this infantile romance with hard-left socialism and/or the legacy of paramilitary terrorism has to end if we are to move forward as a country, and that can only be done by actually putting SF in power rather than letting them exist as a utopian fantasy.

It's easy to be a perpetual hurler on the ditch. It's much harder to govern and take responsibility for decisions. I do hope the electorate will soon get to witness the spectacle of inexperienced left-wing populists making decisions that affect their futures. It's not going to go well.

I doubt that, unless you voted for SF?
This is the general chit chat of the beaten since Saturday, but it's out of spite mostly.
SF can't form a Govt without help and that means, their policies are going to be diluted anyway so if they achieve something on housing and health that they can crow about going forward that will be enough to keep them strong.
Their voters don't expect miracles, just progress and they're fed up of depending on FG and FF for it.
Suck it up lads, this is probably the future of Irish politics.

olestoepoke

Brock Uninterested Leader wrote: »

Indeed. Protest votes can be fickle, with dramatic surges followed by sudden collapses, as I'm sure Peter Casey can attest today — having gone from 23 percent of the popular vote in the presidential election to just 1.5 percent of the first-preference vote in Donegal on Saturday.

I'm all for instating Mary Lou as Taoiseach and giving Sinn Fein their day in the sun. The people will quickly realize that SF can't back up their big promises, will learn from their mistakes, and will vote more pragmatically next time around. But this infantile romance with hard-left socialism and/or the legacy of paramilitary terrorism has to end if we are to move forward as a country, and that can only be done by actually putting SF in power rather than letting them exist as a utopian fantasy.

It's easy to be a perpetual hurler on the ditch. It's much harder to govern and take responsibility for decisions. I do hope the electorate will soon get to witness the spectacle of inexperienced left-wing populists making decisions that affect their futures. It's not going to go well.

More scaremongering. Sour grapes anyone?

nkl12xtw5goz70

Bishop of hope wrote: »

This is the general chit chat of the beaten since Saturday, but it's out of spite mostly.

Who exactly are the "beaten"? Three-quarters of the electorate gave their first preference to someone other than Sinn Fein.

SF can't form a Govt without help and that means, their policies are going to be diluted anyway...

And so the SF excuse-making and the backing away from election promises begins before a government is even formed.

blade1

No memes please.

olestoepoke

Brock Uninterested Leader wrote: »

Who exactly are the "beaten"? Three-quarters of the electorate gave their first preference to someone other than Sinn Fein.



And so the SF excuse-making and the backing away from election promises begins before a government is even formed.

What about FG promises in 2016? How many of those did they "back away from?"

Bishop of hope

Brock Uninterested Leader wrote: »

Who exactly are the "beaten"? Three-quarters of the electorate gave their first preference to someone other than Sinn Fein.



And so the SF excuse-making and the backing away from election promises begins before a government is even formed.

So are they all, none of them expected they wouldn't have to.
This election is an SF victory by a country mile and a huge disappointment to both FF and FG.
The only way for them to show the courage of their commitments now is to form a Govt and keep SF out.

Sam Russell

Brock Uninterested Leader wrote: »

Who exactly are the "beaten"? Three-quarters of the electorate gave their first preference to someone other than Sinn Fein.



And so the SF excuse-making and the backing away from election promises begins before a government is even formed.

SF got 25% of the fist preference, and 25% of the seats. That means 75% of votes and seats did not go their way.

Both FF and FG said they would not form a Gov with SF, so all that is possible is a FF FG coalition, with help from smaller parties with SF in opposition.

However, remember the civil war - so that is not possible either, so where now?

seamus

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Suck it up lads, this is probably the future of Irish politics.

Ping-ponging between 3 parties instead of 2? Yep, probably.

Gazzmonkey

Well done Mary Lou, well deserved result.

Mad_maxx

Brock Uninterested Leader wrote: »

Indeed. Protest votes can be fickle, with dramatic surges followed by sudden collapses, as I'm sure Peter Casey can attest today — having gone from 23 percent of the popular vote in the presidential election to just 1.5 percent of the first-preference vote in Donegal on Saturday.

I'm all for instating Mary Lou as Taoiseach and giving Sinn Fein their day in the sun. The people will quickly realize that SF can't back up their big promises, will learn from their mistakes, and will vote more pragmatically next time around. But this infantile romance with hard-left socialism and/or the legacy of paramilitary terrorism has to end if we are to move forward as a country, and that can only be done by actually putting SF in power rather than letting them exist as a utopian fantasy.

It's easy to be a perpetual hurler on the ditch. It's much harder to govern and take responsibility for decisions. I do hope the electorate will soon get to witness the spectacle of inexperienced left-wing populists making decisions that affect their futures. It's not going to go well.

I'm not sure socialist populism will be such a flash in the pan here

The SF vote amongst the under thirty demographic is huge, we have an exclusively left wing media where pro free market ideals are viewed as far dirtier than SF Marxist thought

ednwireland

olestoepoke wrote: »

More scaremongering. Sour grapes anyone?

no its not SF got hammered at the europeans and locals a few months ago.

this is a protest vote its not the new normal - yet they need to deliver now on some of there main objectives.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I'm not sure socialist populism will be such a flash in the pan here

The SF vote amongst the under thirty demographic is huge, we have an exclusively left wing media where pro free market ideals are viewed as far dirtier than SF Marxist thought

It won't be a flash in the pan, but many of these under-30s are of the "have your cake and eat it, too" variety. They want to espouse radical socialism while benefiting from capitalism.

As soon as socialism starts to hit people where it hurts, driving away jobs and investment and lowering living standards, these same people will rethink their utopian stances. But they have to learn their lesson with SF first.

seamus

Mad_maxx wrote: »

we have an exclusively left wing media

The most depressing part of this comment is the old saying that if everybody is accusing you of bias, then you're probably on the right track.

Sinn Féin in particular would claim that we have quite a right-focussed media. RTE would generally be more flattering towards FF, Denis O'Brien's group did their best to throw everything at Sinn Fein (and would generally be favourable towards FG), and the Irish Times while generally being fair, also give extreme right lunatics plenty of column inches.
Nobody gives a lot of space for left-leaning parties to have their say.

We don't have a very right-wing media like Fox, but we definitley don't have a left-wing one.

WomanSkirtFan8

Brock Uninterested Leader wrote: »

It won't be a flash in the pan, but many of these under-30s are of the "have your cake and eat it, too" variety. They want to espouse radical socialism while benefiting from capitalism.

As soon as socialism starts to hit people where it hurts, driving away jobs and investment and lowering living standards, these same people will rethink their utopian stances. But they have to learn their lesson with SF first.

Couldn't agree more with that assessment. They may very quickly find that to be the case.

Russman

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I'm not sure socialist populism will be such a flash in the pan here

The SF vote amongst the under thirty demographic is huge, we have an exclusively left wing media where pro free market ideals are viewed as far dirtier than SF Marxist thought

Not to be flippant, but IMO the capital & bond markets and borrowing rates will soon bring a harsh does of reality should a Marxist govt ever come to power here.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Posts deleted. Please be civil to other posters and refrain from posting memes.

blanch152

handlemaster wrote: »

We had Trump and Boris. Now Mary Lou

Pretty much that explains it. This election is our Trump/Brexit. Will it last?

Thankfully, our system isn't like the US where the incumbent has all the advantage so that they have given Trump 8 years to wreak havoc, neither is the decision permanent like Brexit, so we have some chance of coming through.

My biggest concern at the moment is whether Paddy Power will pay out on my 12/1 bet on FF/SF if it turns out, as I now expect to be FF/SF/Greens.

This will play out over the next few weeks with Mary-Lou doing a grand tour to talk to every party and independent in the country. The numbers for a coalition of the left won't be enough, even if she could get over the challenge of matching turf-burners with the Greens or Healy-Rae drink laws with the Soc Dems.

Having done all that, there will be a big play of Sinn Fein talking to its own people before concluding that a deal has to be done with one or other of the big parties. Martin will get called in from the cold, he will have been talking to the Greens for the few weeks and a coalition of FF/SF/Greens will be formed.

FG will spend most of the time pretending to talk to everyone except Sinn Fein, while emphasising that it is up to those who "won" the election to take the lead.

At the end of the day, that is what the electorate have voted for. The biggest risk for a FF/SF/Green coalition is Brexit. Anything goes wrong, and there is so much that can still go wrong, FG will be able to say "I told you so" from the sidelines. SF won't get any traction in Brussels, they are viewed as a Syriza clone by the Eurocrats and FF have never been mainstream Europeans.

blanch152

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I'm not sure socialist populism will be such a flash in the pan here

The SF vote amongst the under thirty demographic is huge, we have an exclusively left wing media where pro free market ideals are viewed as far dirtier than SF Marxist thought

Unfortunately, once you implement those socialist populist ideas and crash the economy, the young people who voted for Sinn Fein will be forced to leave and emigrate, so they won't be around to perpetuate the socialist utopia.

jm08

blanch152 wrote: »

At the end of the day, that is what the electorate have voted for. The biggest risk for a FF/SF/Green coalition is Brexit. Anything goes wrong, and there is so much that can still go wrong, FG will be able to say "I told you so" from the sidelines. SF won't get any traction in Brussels, they are viewed as a Syriza clone by the Eurocrats and FF have never been mainstream Europeans.

Brexit is out of our hands now. It will be up to Phil Hogan to steer it in the right way. Not sure about Fianna Fail being mainstream Europeans. Pat Cox came from the Fianna Fail gene pool and it looked like Bertie Ahern next job was President of the EU Council except the crash intervened. He was highly regarded in EU circles for how he dealt with the Lisbon Treaty. Ray McSharry was also a very highly regarded commissioner as well and the Germans loved Charlie Haughey for his managing the UK and France's objections to the unification of Germany.

blanch152

jm08 wrote: »

Brexit is out of our hands now. It will be up to Phil Hogan to steer it in the right way. Not sure about Fianna Fail being mainstream Europeans. Pat Cox came from the Fianna Fail gene pool and it looked like Bertie Ahern next job was President of the EU Council except the crash intervened. He was highly regarded in EU circles for how he dealt with the Lisbon Treaty. Ray McSharry was also a very highly regarded commissioner as well and the Germans loved Charlie Haughey for his managing the UK and France's objections to the unification of Germany.

Pat Cox was a Progressive Democrat.

Fianna Fail have never mixed with the political parties from other countries in the EP, always ending up in some marginal group. FG did so well through their membership of the EPP.

ancapailldorcha

blanch152 wrote: »

Unfortunately, once you implement those socialist populist ideas and crash the economy, the young people who voted for Sinn Fein will be forced to leave and emigrate, so they won't be around to perpetuate the socialist utopia.

Ultimately, I think Seamus is spot on above. Once they actually become the government they're going to find their capacity for delivering on their promises is going to be much less than they implied in their campaign.

They only ran 42 candidates so they will have to govern as part of a coalition which will further constrain their capacity to implement any sort of radical agenda. Ireland may be able to do well out of Brexit in terms of attracting foreign investment but anything along the lines of aggressive corporate taxation or similar noises from SF will put that to bed extremely quickly.

randomname2005

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

They only ran 42 candidates so they will have to govern as part of a coalition which will further constrain their capacity to implement any sort of radical agenda.

Or they decide they are on a streak, strategically fail to form a coalition and force a second election where they run more candidates with the hope of being the biggest party.

CIARAN_BOYLE

randomname2005 wrote: »

Or they decide they are on a streak, strategically fail to form a coalition and force a second election where they run more candidates with the hope of being the biggest party.

Or they are condemned by the floating portion of their vote and lost 20 seats.

ancapailldorcha

randomname2005 wrote: »

Or they decide they are on a streak, strategically fail to form a coalition and force a second election where they run more candidates with the hope of being the biggest party.

Can they afford another election though? Running half the number of candidates that FF and FG ran would indicate that they have financial constraints to operate within. I also think that it's a big electoral gamble to try and run the election again.

Drumpot

Why did they only run 42 candidates? I don’t get it.

Anyways what I find interesting is how they will get on in government. If this government is the one that is presiding over an economic crash they court end up like most smaller parties in a coalition and get decimated.

I presume FF and FG will get equal or more seats (even if only just a few) , it’s prob looking like we goto the pills again in a few weeks or we have a Theresa May kind of government basically beholden to a minority group who can hold a hammer over their heads.

So maybe greens and 2 of the big three, prob FF and SF is surely the odds on at the moment?! Unless enough independents merge.

randomname2005

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Or they are condemned by the floating portion of their vote and lost 20 seats.

Or that. It all comes down to how hungry they are for power and being the most powerful party in a coalition.

fergus1001

randomname2005 wrote: »

Or they decide they are on a streak, strategically fail to form a coalition and force a second election where they run more candidates with the hope of being the biggest party.

I see the above as being likely, would be easy to do AND blame it on FGFF for trying to stop them from enacting their mandate from the people

election gold dust: people vote for change, establishments tries to deny them that change

Hodors Appletart

Drumpot wrote: »

Why did they only run 40 candidates? I don’t get it.

because they were destroyed in the Euro and Locals

nobody saw this coming before the nominations closed

Drumpot

randomname2005 wrote: »

Or that. It all comes down to how hungry they are for power and being the most powerful party in a coalition.

I was thinking this. If SF want to take a massive punt for power this would be the strategy to employ.

charlie14

blanch152 wrote: »

Pat Cox was a Progressive Democrat.

Fianna Fail have never mixed with the political parties from other countries in the EP, always ending up in some marginal group. FG did so well through their membership of the EPP.

FG did so well through their membership of the EEP!


That really worked out well for them with Dara Murphy.

The Irish electorate and especially his constituents in Cork North-Central really saw the benefits there :rolleyes:

Mad_maxx

seamus wrote: »

The most depressing part of this comment is the old saying that if everybody is accusing you of bias, then you're probably on the right track.

Sinn Féin in particular would claim that we have quite a right-focussed media. RTE would generally be more flattering towards FF, Denis O'Brien's group did their best to throw everything at Sinn Fein (and would generally be favourable towards FG), and the Irish Times while generally being fair, also give extreme right lunatics plenty of column inches.
Nobody gives a lot of space for left-leaning parties to have their say.

We don't have a very right-wing media like Fox, but we definitley don't have a left-wing one.

The communist left ( Paul Murphy, Richard boyd Barrett, Ruth coppinger etc) pull in about 3% of the vote yet are regularly featured on current affairs programmes, the hard left has always received a vastly disproportionate level of media exposure

RTE are pretty tough on SF, I'll give you that, they favour comfortable middle class socialism, the Labour Party was the clear favourite of RTE for decades until they more or less disappeared, they have been replaced with the Green Party and the Social Democrats

RTE bombard us daily with various aspects of the left Liberal Broad agenda, beit near non stop features on climate change, their obsession with the homeless situation and of course Direct Provision

Then there are the glowing pieces to do with feminism and multiculturalism

.RTE is overtly left Liberal, as is the vast bulk of the media tribe in this country

Pro high public spending
Disapproval towards any party with a tax cutting agenda
Feverishly enthusiastic towards the gay marriage referendum as well as the repeal the eight vote

ancapailldorcha

Mod: No more petty name calling please. A post has been deleted.

Green&Red

Drumpot wrote: »

Why did they only run 42 candidates? I don’t get it.

This result came completely out of the blue, SF did very poorly in the local and EU elections, running more candidates would have jeopardised the ones running. They ran three in Donegal in 2016 and nearly lost the second seat as a result. Its a fine line

seamus

randomname2005 wrote: »

Or they decide they are on a streak, strategically fail to form a coalition and force a second election where they run more candidates with the hope of being the biggest party.

Sinn Féin aren't that wiley. If they strategically fail to form a coalition the parties they negotiate with will reveal what happened during the negotiations. It'll become clear that they never had any intention of forming a government and it was all optics.

I think that would be an even bigger risk than actually forming a coalition and then collapsing it again a few months later.

Drumpot wrote: »

Why did they only run 42 candidates? I don’t get it.

SF themselves didn't even expect this swing. This is genuine fantasy land numbers they've pulled in. 20% was their stretch target, they were hoping to just hold onto the seats they had after they got battered in local elections. They ran 50 candidates in 2016, and just 42 this time around to avoid splitting their vote.

L1011

Green&Red wrote: »

This result came completely out of the blue, SF did very poorly in the local and EU elections, running more candidates would have jeopardised the ones running. They ran three in Donegal in 2016 and nearly lost the second seat as a result. Its a fine line

They did lose the second seat in 2016 as a result and that's likely a core reason for their caution

Green&Red

fergus1001 wrote: »

I see the above as being likely, would be easy to do AND blame it on FGFF for trying to stop them from enacting their mandate from the people

election gold dust: people vote for change, establishments tries to deny them that change

They say the worst day in government is better than the best day in opposition so we'll see.

Realistically SF have no intention of going into government, this is all a game they're playing about a left only government. The numbers aren't there for that despite how many times we hear it. Denis Naughton, Lowry, the Healy-raes are not left by any stretch.

Mick Wallace was on this morning saying SF have to hold off until there is a fully left option.