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Lodgers.... am i being unreasonable....

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    #32
    James 007
    Registered Users Posts: 962 ✭✭✭James 007


    fluffingtons wrote: »
    The thing is - there are two sitting rooms! one 'good' sitting room, and one kitchen/diner/lounge

    I have suggested to her a few times that she use the empty one that no one uses much

    She doesn't seem to have any self awareness that she might be hogging the space, not just for us but for the other lodger too.

    Bit of a first world problem I know but

    I would have a rule that all the tenants have to use this sitting room. How good a sitting room is it, could you put an eating table there for them. That way the only time they are in the kitchen/dining/lounge area is when they need to cook.


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    #33
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Yes some people have no awareness of boundaries. Anyway no need for unpleasantness just tell her it's not working out and that she will need to move out in a week, month etc. Or that you need her room for something?


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    #34
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    She isn't a licensee and you're out of luck.

    Rent a room scheme doesn't apply.

    Do you work?


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    #35
    James 007
    Registered Users Posts: 962 ✭✭✭James 007


    fluffingtons wrote: »
    I would have agreed with you before this experience!

    Now I can see rules are better than awkward conversations and huffs

    Correct, I plan to have a set of rules in the kitchen/bathroom nicely written up on slate boards with an element of humour throwing in. The rules are there to be followed most of the time, but really I will only pointing the rules out to a tenant if there was a serious confrontation between two tenants. Tenants will adapt to peak usage times for showers according to their schedules, likewise they will probably get to know each other & take turns cooking, so really my rules will be there, be visible when they first come to the house & tenants will only be shown again if there was a serious issue.


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    #36
    fluffingtons
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭fluffingtons


    mikemac2 wrote: »
    Don’t get involved in HAP says this forum usually

    Here we have a working person and they spend too much time in the tenants house it seems. You and the partner are both home half days and some full days so can you complain? Ye are both home a lot also, more than most working people.

    fair point
    what we should have done was picked lodgers to suit our lifestyle. ie. people who work 9-5 and have active lives outside the home, interests, sports, gym, whatever


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    #37
    05eaftqbrs9jlh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭05eaftqbrs9jlh


    James 007 wrote: »
    Correct, I plan to have a set of rules in the kitchen/bathroom nicely written up on slate boards with an element of humour throwing in. The rules are there to be followed most of the time, but really I will only pointing the rules out to a tenant if there was a serious confrontation between two tenants. Tenants will adapt to peak usage times for showers according to their schedules, likewise they will probably get to know each other & take turns cooking, so really my rules will be there, be visible when they first come to the house & tenants will only be shown again if there was a serious issue.
    Oh my god, if I had to live in a house with domestic doctrine on stone tablets hanging in sight of the main common areas (even if I wrote them myself), I be depressed out of my head.

    Having seen this thread, I'm relieved not to share a home with people outside my family. Unless you're good friends with the people (I've lived with friends and had a great time), it sounds like a nightmare.


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    #38
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    fluffingtons wrote: »
    fair point
    what we should have done was picked lodgers to suit our lifestyle. ie. people who work 9-5 and have active lives outside the home, interests, sports, gym, whatever

    Co tenants . Your use of the term lodger is wishful thinking.


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    #39
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    Co tenants . Your use of the term lodger is wishful thinking.

    either that or you are wrong.


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    #40
    fluffingtons
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭fluffingtons


    James 007 wrote: »
    So in order to help the poster & myself, lets start making the set of rules, I'll start the first 10:
    1. Heating is set from X to Y at a Temp of Z
    2. No hogging the kitchen/dining area as an office, please use your desk/chair in your room for office/laptop periods
    3. Peak morning shower time, 8 to 10am, max. usage time X mins
    4. Peak evening cooking time, 6 to 9pm, max. usage time Y mins
    5. No noise, loud music, parties in the house
    6. No over-staying guests allowed in the house
    7. No smoking in the house
    8. Keep all communal areas clean
    9. No hogging the washing machine/dryer, cycles to be taken in turns
    10. Head phones to be used in conjunction with laptops at all times

    good list. 1, 2, 4, 7 and 8 would be my main concerns. I don't mind a bit of music or partying now and then if all agreed... I would like the lodgers to be happy as far as possible

    I would add
    References from previous landlord
    References from employer
    No pulling furniture around! (that's another of her habits)
    No leaving front doors unlocked (another habit)

    When you interview potential lodgers try and get a good sense of their hobbies, interests, work schedule, ie a sense of whether you will be under one another's feet or not


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    #41
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    She isn't a licensee and you're out of luck.

    Rent a room scheme doesn't apply.

    Do you work?

    How do you make that out? It absolutely does apply.


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    #42
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 25,403 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    antix80 wrote: »
    Give her notice. Life's too short.

    I'd suggest having clocks and thermostats set up so that the heat is kept at an agreed temperature at specified times of the day. Having a constant/off switch is a disaster.

    You should also provide writing desks in each bedroom.

    Good advice, but just..... does she need to do college stuff / work at home ? If there is nowhere to do it ie. a desk provided in her room, then it’s probably not unreasonable that she’d want to do it in reasonable comfort ie. not lying on a bed... I wouldn’t begrudge this... IKEA have a decent selection... https://www.ikea.com/ie/en/cat/desks-computer-desks-20649/

    I’d certainly get tough regarding the heating, just say that the rent was figured with proper and reasonable use in mind and that the heating use would need to be moderated.


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    #43
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    'leaving front doors unlocked (another habit)'

    I would hate that! Shows that they don't give a damm.

    Life too short as some said earlier, just ask them to leave.


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    #44
    James 007
    Registered Users Posts: 962 ✭✭✭James 007


    Marissa Fluffy Clown wrote: »
    Oh my god, if I had to live in a house with domestic doctrine on stone tablets hanging in sight of the main common areas (even if I wrote them myself), I be depressed out of my head.
    ………...

    Yes, but if I plan to rent out to tenants, my own sanity will always come first, if there is an issue with the tenant or a tenant making noise at 2am in the morning, they move on, that's it.


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    #45
    mikemac2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,952 ✭✭✭mikemac2


    The OP is looking for a lodger who works 50 hours a week and goes down the country every weekend

    The dream lodger

    Failing that hit the gym every day and use the oven at unusually late hours

    If I moved into a place and learned the people I shared with were working part time and half days I wouldn’t feel guilty for doing the same

    The lodger didn’t say they were part time before moving. Did the OP and partner say they were part time to the lodger?


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    #46
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,990 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    James 007 wrote: »
    So in order to help the poster & myself, lets start making the set of rules, I'll start the first 10:
    1. Heating is set from X to Y at a Temp of Z
    2. No hogging the kitchen/dining area as an office, please use your desk/chair in your room for office/laptop periods
    3. Peak morning shower time, 8 to 10am, max. usage time X mins
    4. Peak evening cooking time, 6 to 9pm, max. usage time Y mins
    5. No noise, loud music, parties in the house
    6. No over-staying guests allowed in the house
    7. No smoking in the house
    8. Keep all communal areas clean
    9. No hogging the washing machine/dryer, cycles to be taken in turns
    10. Head phones to be used in conjunction with laptops at all times

    Better yet, they just give you money without actually moving in. Dream lodger! Now where do we find them?


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    #47
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,305 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    fluffingtons wrote: »
    fair point
    what we should have done was picked lodgers to suit our lifestyle. ie. people who work 9-5 and have active lives outside the home, interests, sports, gym, whatever

    You still can. You were looking for a lodger. Sounds like she was looking for a house share. It’s a bad match.

    As an aside, even though you’ve a loose arrangement with the relations your renting the house from, you do have tenancy rights, even if you never choose to exercise them. That’s your own affair. However, your lodgers will gain the right to tenancy one a set period has elapsed. Do you want to land your relations with tenants they never asked for, plus the hassle they’ll get with RTB regarding the tenants they never asked for?


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    #48
    fluffingtons
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭fluffingtons


    mikemac2 wrote: »
    The OP is looking for a lodger who works 50 hours a week and goes down the country every weekend

    The dream lodger

    Failing that hit the gym every day and use the oven at usually late hours

    If I moved into a place and learned the people I shared with were working part time and half days I wouldn’t feel guilty for doing the same

    The lodger didn’t say they were part time before moving. Did the OP and partner say they were part time to the lodger?


    lol you're not totally wrong
    still, fact is we got to do the picking and choosing in this case. should have done things a bit differently


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    #49
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Stark wrote: »
    Better yet, they just give you money without actually moving in. Dream lodger! Now where do we find them?


    To be fair they aren't a good fit so best end it.


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    #50
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,305 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Stark wrote: »
    Better yet, they just give you money without actually moving in. Dream lodger! Now where do we find them?

    I was one of those for a year. Suited me fine. Nice big room, access to facilities, and relatively cheap rent.


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    #51
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,990 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Marissa Fluffy Clown wrote: »
    Oh my god, if I had to live in a house with domestic doctrine on stone tablets hanging in sight of the main common areas (even if I wrote them myself), I be depressed out of my head.

    Having seen this thread, I'm relieved not to share a home with people outside my family. Unless you're good friends with the people (I've lived with friends and had a great time), it sounds like a nightmare.

    There's one piece of advice I've received many times with regard to renting. Never move in with an owner occupier.


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    #52
    fluffingtons
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭fluffingtons


    Stark wrote: »
    Better yet, they just give you money without actually moving in. Dream lodger! Now where do we find them?

    :) lol

    now you're talking! l


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    #53
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,305 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Stark wrote: »
    There's one piece of advice I've received many times with regard to renting. Never move in with an owner occupier.

    Obviously. If you’re looking for a house share it’s a bad idea.


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    #54
    fluffingtons
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭fluffingtons


    saabsaab wrote: »
    To be fair they aren't a good fit so best end it.

    This is exactly it.

    Its now all a bit awkward so better off out of it.
    Its not good for her either, she could find a better situation, maybe meet people more on her wavelength.

    For all i know she might be looking for a new room already, wouldn't be surprised if she decided to move on of her own accord.

    Will hold off doing anything for a day or two


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    #55
    fluffingtons
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭fluffingtons


    endacl wrote: »
    You still can. You were looking for a lodger. Sounds like she was looking for a house share. It’s a bad match.

    As an aside, even though you’ve a loose arrangement with the relations your renting the house from, you do have tenancy rights, even if you never choose to exercise them. That’s your own affair. However, your lodgers will gain the right to tenancy one a set period has elapsed. Do you want to land your relations with tenants they never asked for, plus the hassle they’ll get with RTB regarding the tenants they never asked for?

    spot on. We wanted a lodger, she wants a house share.
    We should have been more clear what the exact arrangement was. even in our own heads, now that I look back on it


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    #56
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    fluffingtons wrote: »
    She never leaves the house, works at the dining table in the kitchen/diner and sits there for hours, turns the heat on way too high and leaves it running...
    On this, perhaps ensure the next licensee works in their company, and not at home.

    Seems she has gotten a great deal; a home office and all the heat that she wants. Are you charging her extra for her energy consumption?
    fluffingtons wrote: »
    We didn't sign any contract with them, maybe we were a bit naive about the whole thing
    Never sign a lease with licensees. At best, have them sign that they agree to the house rules, but you don't sign it.
    marieholmfan wrote: »
    She isn't a licensee and you're out of luck.

    Rent a room scheme doesn't apply.

    Do you work?
    Actually, she is a licensee, and they do work.
    marieholmfan wrote: »
    Co tenants . Your use of the term lodger is wishful thinking.
    Licensee.
    fluffingtons wrote: »
    No leaving front doors unlocked (another habit)
    A big no-no. Two warnings, and then out. I value my stuff too much!
    fluffingtons wrote: »
    We should have been more clear what the exact arrangement was.
    Do you list yourself as the owner occupier?

    Because for all purposes, you are. Personally, I avoid subletting, as I'd have no rights, and wouldn't live by someone elses terms that they themselves wouldn't need to follow. It sounds like you didn't make that clear before she moved in, tbh.


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    #57
    James 007
    Registered Users Posts: 962 ✭✭✭James 007


    fluffingtons wrote: »
    …………….
    No pulling furniture around! (that's another of her habits)
    No leaving front doors unlocked (another habit)
    …………………………..
    Good additions, No.s 11 & 12 to the list, thanks. All you other comments relate to vetting the tenants so I will note those separately.


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    #58
    fluffingtons
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭fluffingtons


    the_syco wrote: »
    On this, perhaps ensure the next licensee works in their company, and not at home.

    Seems she has gotten a great deal; a home office and all the heat that she wants. Are you charging her extra for her energy consumption?


    Never sign a lease with licensees. At best, have them sign that they agree to the house rules, but you don't sign it.


    Actually, she is a licensee, and they do work.


    Licensee.


    A big no-no. Two warnings, and then out. I value my stuff too much!


    Do you list yourself as the owner occupier?

    Because for all purposes, you are. Personally, I avoid subletting, as I'd have no rights, and wouldn't live by someone elses terms that they themselves wouldn't need to follow. It sounds like you didn't make that clear before she moved in, tbh.

    Yes that's fair. totally accept that. yes we are basically in lieu of the owner occupier for the purposes of this discussion.

    We said bills included in rent. Another v bad idea, if you don't specify some kind of fair usage. :(

    So yes she actually has a really good deal. On that basis I think we hoped or thought it was understood that she would be a bit more obliging. She can use the kitchen/lounge/TV, work at the dining table etc, just not all the time.


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    #59
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,320 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    Co tenants . Your use of the term lodger is wishful thinking.

    Not really; fluffingtons is renting the entire property and,wit the consent of the landlord, has sublet. THis menas that fluffingtons is the landlord for that resident. After 6 months, the subtenant could request part IV rights as against the head landlord. However, as they are a family member of fluffingtons, the protections of the RTA won't be available to them.

    It's a harsh reality. Seems like both the subtenant and fluffingtons didn't do their homework and are reaping as they sowed. However, fluffingtons has an exit.


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    #60
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    fluffingtons wrote: »
    This is exactly it.

    Its now all a bit awkward so better off out of it.
    Its not good for her either, she could find a better situation, maybe meet people more on her wavelength.

    For all i know she might be looking for a new room already, wouldn't be surprised if she decided to move on of her own accord.

    Will hold off doing anything for a day or two


    Fair enough, hope she does that but I have found that those who have little awareness don't leave without a push first. Let us know how it goes.


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    #61
    sondagefaux
    Registered Users Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭sondagefaux


    fluffingtons wrote: »
    I would love to hear some opinions!

    We recently took two lodgers to help us save to buy a house.
    I'm really regretting one of them...

    She never leaves the house, works at the dining table in the kitchen/diner and sits there for hours, turns the heat on way too high and leaves it running...

    I know none of these is a serious issue, could be way worse etc.

    the problem is there is a bit of an atmosphere now...
    I spoke to her about the heating and she seems to be in a huff, I find we're avoiding each other.. its not fun... not sure what to do!

    anyone have any experience with lodgers? Did you set rules about heating/use of shared spaces etc?

    thanks!

    Give her a week to find someone else's house to sit around in all day.

    As a lodger, she hasn't got anywhere near the legal rights of tenants.

    And see if you can fit a timer/thermostat that you can control with an app on your phones...


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