Last of the Summer Wine

Murph_D

Weeks of 8 Nov, 15 Nov

Not a whole lot happening since the race. Time to get the wheels moving again. Been reading Keith Livingstone’s Healthy Intelligent Training, which is based on Lydiard principles. Thinking of getting into some of this method for 2022.

Mon 8 Nov - Thurs 11 Nov

No running - a few days off after the year’s main goal had been achieved. Good to be saying that after a bit of a hiatus. 

Fri 12 Nov 

5.8k very easy @ 5:51. 

A loop around Glasnevin. Morrissey in my head. Meet you at the cemetery gates, Keats and Yeats are on your side. Pity he turned out the way he did. 🙄

Sat 13 Nov

10.4k inc. 5k @ M

Had been toying with going to Abbotstown to check out the new parkrun, but stayed in bed til the last minute and just popped down to Fairview instead (800m door-to-startline). Enjoyable trot around. A good few clubmates visiting this week, coincidentally. Kept it near marathon pace, which is the parkrun enjoyment sweet spot for me.

Sun 14 Nov

17k @ 5:34

Handed out the tokens at St. Anne’s junior parkrun then put in 10+ miles out to Sutton and back to Fairview. Got a ‘Donadea!’ shout and thumbs up from a cyclist who recognised the shirt. It’s a bit of a cult, y’know? 

33k (20m) this week. Today’s run took me past 3,000k year-to-date.

Mon 15 Nov

7.2k rec @ 5:50

Easy round the Collins Ave loop. Slightly frazzled after a couple of bike commute incidents earlier in the day, on the way in AND the way out of work. Not getting any easier to be on the bike in Dublin.

Tue 16 Nov

Rest.

Wed 17 Nov

13.1k inc 4 x 8 mins steady.

A lot of the midweek runs have been after dark lately, so it was good to get out around lunchtime for a gentle enough session. Prompted by some of the reading, I opted for 4 x 8 mins, trying to keep it below 80% HRR, around what some call the maximum steady state, about 7 beats below anaerobic threshold pace for me. Pleasant enough going. Going by a runner about two thirds through the final rep, he started up a conversation so I reined it in. Got to smell the roses the odd time.   

• This week: 20k (13m)
• This month: 112 (70)
• This year: 3,027 1,881)

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169073#Comment_118169073

The dregs! That's a good way of putting it.

We'll see, R, we'll see! Hope things are going well for you over there in Dunboyne. Any plans for the NIA?

Murph_D

Week of 15 Nov cont.

Just ticking over really.

Thurs 18 Nov

11k easy/rec @ 5:57 up the Howth Road. Cut through St. Anne’s to the coast, enjoying the total darkness. Luckily the main avenue is nice and smooth. Ninja runner met a ninja cyclist and some ninja dog walkers.

Fri 19 Nov

Rest. Driving to Donegal, too dark and too late when we got there.

Sat 20 Nov

11.3k easy @ 5:27.

Tested the new Zoom Flys on the local hilly road loop. Felt good - firmer than the last pair but that’s no complaint. 

Sun 21 Nov

17k MLR @ 5:27

Out the Croagh road in the rain. Was cold at first into the wind but warmed up eventually and nice and toasty by the end. Enjoyed this, especially the downhill and downwind return leg. Plenty of traffic about for a Sunday morning, one SUV gave me the punishment pass treatment. W*nker!

• This week: 60k (37m)
• This month: 151 (94)
• This year: 3,066 1,906)

Mulberry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118183233#Comment_118183233

I didn't mean 'dregs' negatively! Quite the opposite!

I'm no longer sprinting unfortunately, and will not be doing any competitive running ever again as it happens. As you ask I might take this opportunity to fill you in (and other readers) with a cautionary tale.

I was out for an easy few miles with a pal back at the end of May, and started to get an achy type pain at the front of my neck. It continued to get worse, until I eventually stopped running and walked, and it went away after a few minutes. I started to run again, and the pain came back. I tried 3 or 4 runs like this, but it kept happening. I put it down to tension emanating from my shoulders as had been going through a particularly stressful few months.

Fortunately, a week or two later I was on the phone to my GP about something else entirely. During the call she was going through some routine questions - including if I exercised much and I told her - not recently because of a pain I get while running. That was on a Thursday. On the following Monday morning I had a stress test with a cardiologist, which I failed, and on the Wednesday I had an angiogram, which revealed a badly blocked artery, which required a stent, carried out there and then. Home the following day, a week out from the GP conversation, and I'm a very unlikely sufferer from heart disease.

The reason I'm going public with this (as it were), is because I have none of the risk factors for heart disease. I'm only 49. My cholesterol is fine (hovering slightly above or below 5). I have no family history. I don't smoke. I exercise and I have a pretty decent diet. My only issue is stress, but really that was quite recent so was unlikely to be the major factor. So, I was just unlucky, and my point is - the same could happen to anyone here.

While I'm disappointed to have had to retire from sprinting I'm very very glad that the pain I had (more commonly known as chest pain) didn't progress to a heart attack on the track or road. Sometimes people recover from those, especially if a defib is close by, but that's not always the case.

So the moral of the story is, regardless of your risk profile, if you experience an unusual pain when running, usually from the chest up and can go anywhere up towards the top of your head, sometimes down your arms, and if it goes away when you stop running, then seriously consider that it could be heart related. Heart problems never entered by head - it was the GP who zoned in on it.

I'll continue to watch your progress from the sidelines D, and progress there will be! Dregs my foot!

Murph_D

[deleted double post]

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118205983#Comment_118205983

Ah, Roisin, so sorry to hear this. A cautionary tale right enough, as you say. I do know a few runners who run (and perform very well) with a stent, so I know it doesn't have to be the end. I notice you've only mentioned retiring from sprinting so maybe it's not a complete stop? Plenty of time to assess that situation, of course. And if it is a complete stop, that's allowed too.

It does remind me that I'm overdue an appointment with my own cardiologist - so far I've always gotten the 'all clear', and those assesments are always confidence-inspiring. I've had various stress tests and angiograms over the years. Unfortunately my original cardiologist retired and I wasn't as impressed by her replacement. Might have to shop around again!

It's good of you to share the experience. Whatever happens from now on, you packed a lot into that sprinting career. One of my favourite running memories actually is hanging out with you and DG in the stands at Tullamore, watching the action after our own various track efforts, secure in the knowledge that we'd all done what we'd set out to do. Hopefully we'll bump into each other again.

Dubh Geannain

@Mulberry . Very sorry to hear that. I started a thread on the main forum earlier in the year in relation to when people ran (morning, afternoon or evening) as I was half looking to start a conversation around something I know nothing about but would like to find out more. If I ever find the time I want to look into further. It occurred to me again only last night when everyone was heating their homes as I ran around the roads of the town. While the car traffic in the evening may be light I've come home with my clothes smelling of turf and oil smoke. I'm only a recent convert to running more regularly but I don't expect my lungs appreciate it much more than my clothes.

I'm not saying it's what happened you, as I don't know how often you ran or where, but one of the health effects of air pollution is heart disease (amongst other things) and I'd imagine having the lungs gasping in the late evening is probably not a good idea on a winters night in urban Ireland. I'll be firing up the headlamp and running in the field more often in the coming weeks anyway. Thank you for sharing.

Mulberry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118206747#Comment_118206747

I remember that day in Tullamore! Nothing like sitting in the stands watching the goings on on the track after your race has finished. That's something you don't get from road running!

Once I heard the cardiologist say there was a risk, there was no going back from that, I couldn't un-hear it! I didn't even bother with a second opinion. I am continuing to do easy runs though, being fit is now more important than ever. Just no 'guts out' effort, and it's very very strange to think I'll never do that again. However, I have taken up golf for that competitive fix! All the thrills but none of the (physical) effort!

I'm happy to hear you're on top of your own care too, good for you.

Mulberry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210391#Comment_118210391

Interesting, I did not know that. Who knows what caused my blockage - could be anything I guess: it could have been there from birth - or it could have been car fumes! The main thing is to be alert for symptoms, and to keep an eye on the obvious risk factors - monitor your cholesterol etc, particularly if you've a family history. Thanks DG.

Murph_D

Oh by the way, @Mulberry, I know the word 'dregs' was not a negative comment. I kind of like the concept all the same. I see where it’s coming from. Indian summer, eh? I can go with that. 😁 But in many cases, contemplating the dregs does indeed make you want something more. And sometimes the last swig is the sweetest! 😊

Annie get your Run

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118205983#Comment_118205983

Roisin! So sorry to hear about this. I'm glad it was caught early and thanks for posting the details - women often experience heart related symptoms in a very different way to men - who would think neck pain could be heart disease! Glad to hear you are still running though and also good to hear that golf has its uses ☺️. Stay well! AM.

Murph_D

Week of 22 Nov

No real shape to the schedule at the moment, just making it up on the day. Sunday road trip to Kildare to look forward to!

Mon 22 Nov

No running.

Tue 23 Nov

5x1k progressive

Wanted to get some sort of session in, so programmed the watch for 5 x 1k with 2:30 recoveries. Wasn’t sure how I’d pace them - decided to see how I was feeling during the warmup, which was fairly sluggish, although it was a beautiful morning for running. Opted to do a progressive set of reps, starting at marathon pace, working up to 5k pace.

Splits: 4:39 4:31 4:19 4:11 3:58.

Enjoyed that. Total for the morning: 11.5k

Wed 24 Nov

9.6k recovery, heading up on around DCU and Albert College. Student Christmas drinking seems to have started, long queue outside the college bar when I jogged by.

Thurs 25 Nov

No run. A night at the theatre, no less. Great show - The Treaty, by Colin Murphy, at the NCH. You have to keep your face covered through the entire performance, so a new mask-wearing PB tonight. 😉

Fri 26 Nov

50 mins easy on the seafront, out to the wooden bridge.

Sat 27 Nov

7.6k inc St. Anne’s parkrun @ MP

A bit of a warmup (it was freezing), then hooked up with C. We decided to ignore the watch and try to run 24 mins by feel. Result - 23:59. 😎

Sun 28 Nov

MLR 12.6k @ 5:32

A little tired after a few drinks the night before. And a bit stiff after spending eight plus hours on the couch this weekend watching the new Beatles doc (loved every second, even the boring bits!)

Drove down to Kildare town with M to meet up with P (the artist formerly know as @yaboya1), who showed us around the town and the Curragh. Lovely spot for a run, another one off the bucket list. Plenty of talk of horseflesh and stud farming. 🐎 Excellent coffee and cake after. 

• This week: 50k (31m)
• This month: 202 (125)
• This year: 3,117 (1,937)

Laineyfrecks

Can't beat a bit of the Beatles🥰

scotindublin

Must give the Beatles doc a watch. The Sunday run on the Curragh sounds great, one I will suggest to our Sunday crew.

Murph_D

Week of 29 Nov

I feel like I’m limping (metaphorically, thankfully) through the last part of the year. This week has the Jingle Bells race at the end of it. There's also the club’s Winter League 3, 2 and 1 mile series (all runners welcome) starting on Wednesday on the Wade Ave road relay loop, among the cars, buses and bicycles!

Mon 29 Nov

No running. Monday has become a fairly regular rest day lately, for no particular reason.

Tue 30 Nov

6.7k @ 5:54

Just an easy/recovery type jog around the Drumcondra/Glasnevin area. It always strikes me when I run these places where I used to walk/cycle in my childhood that I never would have imagined that I would be experiencing them as a runner 40-50 years later. Of course a lot has changed, but a lot of it is still the same.

November total: 208 km (129 mi) - a low mileage month, deliberately so. No need to push the annual target.

Wed 1 Dec

7.6k inc 3m @ sub-T

The club Winter League started tonight and as I’ve signed up for the entire series of 10 races between now and April, I opted to use it for the midweek session. As next year’s Lydiard-insipired approach will start with a lot of sub-threshold runs (5-10% HRR below LT) I thought I’d strap on the HRM and use tonight’s race as a gauge of what that felt like (it’s a bit easier than I’m accustomed to thinking about ‘tempo’ runs, when ‘tempo’ means lactate threshold.) Lydiard and most of his contemporary advocates certainly don’t advocate using a HRM to judge this, but it’s a useful tool initially for dialing into the pace, with a view eventually to doing it by feel, which is something I would like to be better at.

It can be hard to settle into the right pace initially as the HR takes a while to get into the right range. It’s a three by one-mile lapped course and lap one (7:18) looked deceptively comfortable before the HR kicked into range in the second lap (7:22). I’d been running with one or two others, feeling very relaxed and strong, and as much as I’d love to have pushed on in the third lap (7:13), I was disciplined and kept an eye on the numbers, deliberately easing off towards the end as I was going a little beyond the proper range.

Very enjoyable outing, so much easier to do a session this way (although that has its own pitfalls).

Thurs 2 Dec

8.8k easy on the seafront, meeting up en route with C.

Fri 3 Dec

No run. Delighted to finish up my teaching for the year, with a very enjoyable couple of seminars.

Sat 4 Dec

Jingle Bells 5k (20:36)

While this race was never a focus - the 5k part of the year is long done and dusted and happily put away with the July TT - I took it seriously enough to rest up and hydrate and get plenty of sleep in the buildup. Been sleeping really well actually, by my standards. But on the day I found myself with very little motivation, despite getting there in plenty of time to warm up with M and savour the atmosphere, with more than a thousand runners milling around the start. Was lovely to say hello to V and J and wave at A in the car park, and have that feeling of racing in the Phoenix Park again. The first official race in the Park for me, actually, since the JB 2018.

The execution was far worse than the preparation. Started in the appropriate position and didn’t really mind the slow start due to congestion, but found myself with no stomach for the wind heading up Chesterfield. It was great to turn out of the wind near the OS Office and halfway, but I felt pretty bunched by the time Mister Paul sailed by around the same time. The fast finish allowed for a pickup but not enough to get anywhere near the 20 mins I'd been trying to tell myself was the target. About the only consolation was managing not to get beaten by B, my old 800m nemesis from the Cru. Great to say hello to so many more runners afterwards, including E and K and J. And some super results, well done if yours was one of them. It's a race I always manage to screw up, but hats off to Donore for staging a terrific event. Was great to have that proper club race atmosphere again.

(Edit: Next time, no session 2.5 days before the race. Those days are over)

Sun 5 Dec

LR 107 mins @ 5:26

Up the Royal Canal to the M50 aqueduct, a route I haven’t taken in a good while. Legs far too fresh, confirming yesterday’s lack of application. But on we go!

• This week: 53k (33m)
• This month: 46 (29)
• This year: 3,169 (1,970)

Murph_D

Week of 6 Dec

Closing in on 2,000 miles this week. The plan was to give parkrun a lash at the end of the week too.

Mon 6 Dec

I decided to keep the Monday rest day, even with the dreaded warnings about tomorrow's storm Barra.

Tue 7 Dec

50 mins very easy.

Decidedly underwhelmed by the Dublin version of the storm, despite everyone having the day off school, including myself. Took myself out the seafront in the afternoon after the worst of the not very dramatic winds had died down. Still a bit blowy but the worst of it was just a bit of spray coming over the sea wall. Bit of a lagoon covering the path near the wooden bridge but easy enough to avoid.  

Wed 8 Dec

53 mins even easier.

Did my Griffith Ave / Glasnevin loop, but in the opposite direction to the usual, and extended around the cemetery, which adds some distance and a bit more hill. This run takes me past my old secondary school which always brings back the memories.

Thurs 9 Dec

11.3k with 11, 12 mins sub-threshold.

Another experiment with Lydiard ‘¾’ pace. Left the HRM at home this time, aiming at around 4:30-4:40/km, so basically HM-M pace. On-the-fly plan was for 2 x 12 mins, mindful of a race effort coming up at the weekend. Inadvertently ended the first rep a minute early after bumping into DD in St. Anne’s, just at the tail end. Enjoyed the recovery interval chat before heading off again along the seafront, into the wind. That 12 mins felt a good bit harder, but just tried to feel the effort.

In other news, the mrs got news that her Chicago ballot had been successful, so that's her definitely coming so!

Fri 10 Dec

7.5k easy back home from Finglas.

Sat 11 Dec

11.7k inc Malahide parkrun (20:28)

Happy with this effort - it’s a long time since I’ve run Malahide parkrun, and the course is quite tricky when you’re trying to run it fast. Cross country feel to the start, a bit of a mad dash across the grass for position before you hit the tarmac, with some 'technical' mud on the margins. I’d warmed up fairly well, and had C for company. I was conscious of my breathing being heavy from the very start, struggling to get the air in as we set off at 4 min/k pace. Normal enough for me, although a bit worse in the cold air. I was conscious of C’s completely inaudible breathing and tried to relax as much as possible. Good opening lap (the short one) but started to feel the effort in the second half and as it turned out lost some time during mile 2, although I wasn't aware of this as I didn't so much as glance at the watch from start to finish. C was very motivational, helping me keep the wheels mostly on, and I finished reasonably strongly after battling through the heaves. We passed a good few runners from start to finish, and I almost got one more in the finish area, before he responded. Tough enough going. When I looked at the watch, kneeling on the ground to recover, I was slightly disappointed to see 20:28. The effort felt like it might have yielded a slightly faster time but when the dust settled I told myself it’s not bad for the course, and I had achieved the main goal I’d set for myself during the warmup, which was to be faster than last week - and faster than Jingle Bells on a harder course has to be a win. Turned out it’s my fourth fastest parkrun ever, although I rarely race them. A good morning's work and I’m grateful to C for some excellent pacing. He got about as much out of me as was in there today. As I suspected it might, the cooldown, with C and B, brought the year's total to 2,000 miles.

Sun 12 Dec

No running. Right foot a little sore, something I noticed during yesterday’s cooldown. Hopefully nothing, but a rest day will do no harm. Headed out to Abbotstown for an excellent afternoon of Euro cross country action. Great atmosphere, and the Sports Campus looked well. It’s a very impressive facility, hopefully it will someday be completed.

• This week: 48k (30m)
• This month: 94 (59)
• This year: 3,218 (2,000)

Wubble Wubble

Congrats on the mileage milestone, nice to get that one boxed off with a few weeks to spare. Well done on the parkrun, slightly quicker than my parkrun PB (20:35) which was set in Malahide three years ago.

Laineyfrecks

Well done on hitting the 2,000 milestone! And great effort at the parkrun on a harder course.

I watched most of the cross country today on rte, I'd say it was great to be there, some great performances & for the mens under 23 team to win gold, just brilliant🤗

scotindublin

Great way to spend the afternoon D, and congrats on the 2000 landmark.

Abbotstown is a cracking facility, ran on it about 6 weeks ago. Would be great to do a proper session on it.

ThebitterLemon

Your durability and performances down through the years have been very impressive D.

all the best for 2022

TbL

ariana`

Super effort on the parkrun. Out of interest do you find it harder/mentally mentally to push yourself in a parkrun than a 5k road race? Having done JB and a parkrun effort in close proximity to each other you may have some insight.

Murph_D

I suppose it depends on the parkrun. Big parkruns like St Anne’s and Malahide don’t feel that different to me to a road race. I rarely race parkruns, but that’s mainly because I tend to avoid 5k racing in general, probably because it’s such a difficult distance to get right. Feels too fast, for too long. I would be less intimidated by shorter, faster distances and longer, slower ones. My parkrun PB (St. Anne’s) is only 7 seconds slower than my road 5k PB (Bob Heffernan, a faster course for sure) so effectively no difference really in terms of application/effort when the time is right, which isn’t very often!

Good question, got me thinking. Ultimately, no difference to me. It’s all about the course, and the competition, and maybe if there’s a pacer or not. I really find pacing help valuable over 5k, maybe more than any other distance.

ariana`

Thanks for the reply. I've yet to experience a busy parkrun, we'd usually have about 50-60 and the times would go up to 50 minutes so they are well spread out. I've run a lot of lonely races over the years. But last Saturday's parkrun was the first time ever I came away feeling that it made a difference. I think the result may have been different if there was someone to chase or someone to pace off a little bit faster than what was ultimately a reasonably comfortably hard run on the day. I also questioned if it was mental thing knowing it was only a parkrun rather than a race that only comes around once a year. I really wonder how people go out week after week and run them hard every time, and I know people who do this or seem to do this at least, it baffles me.

Interesting you avoid 5ks. I feel that way about 10ks. I find it an extremely hard distance to judge and for the same reasons you dislike 5ks, it just feels too fast for too long, the pain isn't significantly less than 5k and yet the distance is double, eek. I'd do a 5k or a 10mile over a 10k any day, in fact my 10k fastest time according to strava stats was during a 10mile TT.

Anyhow, great stuff going on here as usual. Your longevity and ability to keep committing is inspiring. I hope '22 brings more good innings.

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118329670#Comment_118329670

5k's take a lot of practice so its no surprise you maybe felt you didnt quite nail it or felt like company would have helped. It's very hard to push yourself into that pit of 5k pain unless you a) have practiced it a lot or b) you are in company and decide to maybe push yourself beyond what you think you can manage for 5k. Honestly, the think about he 5k is you should be feeling fairly uncomfortable 1km into it. If youve been spending a lot of time in marathon training then thats a hard place to put yourself in. You'd be surprised how quickly you'll learn though. Thats the beauty of the 5k. You can recover and go again soon.

As for 10k - I shall have nothing bad said about that lovely distance...............

Murph_D

10k is my second least favourite distance. 😁

Laineyfrecks

Oh god I'm with @ariana` on this, as much as I'm not loving 5ks at the moment I absolutely hate 10ks👀😳

skyblue46

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330359#Comment_118330359

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330370#Comment_118330370

First world problems 🥺

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330402#Comment_118330402

You'll be back. Hopefully.

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118330370#Comment_118330370

Well any race that's faster than anaerobic threshold for a relatively long time (say 20 mins or more) is always going to feel hard, psychologically and physically. For me, threshold lies somewhere between 10k and 10 mile pace so the 10 mile distance just feels more manageable, while 5k-10k are gut wrenching, 5k just a bit more so because you're more or less all out, whereas the first half of the 10k (for me) feels fairly comfortable. You definitely shouldn't be getting a 10k PB during a 10 mile race, though, @ariana`, that's just wrong (or else it was very soft to begin with, probably because you avoid 10k racing). 😀

Swashbuckler

I was thinking about this on my run this afternoon and was all primed for a response only to see Murph pretty much said everything I wanted to say!!!

Threshold (roughly being the pace you can maintain for 60mins) being "comfortably hard" meaning anything faster than that is just plain hard. For both you ladies that means any distance from 10k and lower will feel like crap.

There's usually clues around what you find most difficult though meaning there's benefit to working on your 5k/10k pace and build up that VO2max.

Also I expect you might not have found the sweet spot for the 10k strategy that suits you most...A lot of people go off too hard. My own 10k PB each mile was faster than the last. and the first mile was probably ~5s per mile slower than target pace.