If you voted Sinn Fein in the GE, why did you do it?

Fann Linn

GreeBo wrote: »

You are assuming that this will impact the wealthy but it wont.

When a glut of cheap stock comes on the market it doesnt impact the high end things. There will never be more houses in D4 or D6, there is nowhere to put them so prices will stay high. But the very people who SF purport to support will be massively impacted.
You just spent 350K on a house in Adamstown? Ouch. Where exactly do you think all these social, affordable houses are going to be built?

I'm aware of that. I live in a house bought during the boom which was overpriced. A house near me was bought for approx €50k cheaper than mine only 16 months ago according to the property price register.

In all honesty, I'm not hanging up balloons at this drop in price but should I begrudge a young family with a baby because they bought at the right time?

And I also have a family myself with one paying €1100 per month rent and living on her nerves month to month in case the LL increases it again.
This is what I want addressed.

limnam

GreeBo wrote: »

Its nothing to do with guaranteed value, its people being stuck in starter homes after 15 years with 3 kids in a 2 bed house and a 2 hour commute.

Remember back to FF and the so called mess they made of things?

If people can't afford to buy it. They'll be stuck anyway

GreeBo

limnam wrote: »

If we take the average house price of 380k.


A couple of need a combined income of around 100k.


Average salary is 38 or so


so an average dual income of 72k


People on low to no incomes are not in the market for the vast majority of houses.


Not sure how much impact over 5 years would have on taking people into houses they're not in the market for anyway

What about the people who just managed to buy the average house...its now worth 250K and will never be back to 380K.

What does your average couple do now? Just accept their lot and live in a starter home forever?
What happens when one or both of your average couple lose their jobs? Perhaps because SF has made Ireland unattractive for the multinationals who make up about 70% of our current growth?

Now they are saddled with debt and have an asset that won't cover it, so what do the banks do?
Well SF is saying they cant sell these loans off, so now the bank has to stop lending to ensure it has the correct debt to reserve ratio.

Hmm, now
- people can't get a mortgage even for these affordable houses.
- banks arent and cant lend
- people are stuck with negative equity
- people are stuck in houses that are not suitable for their current circumstances

Hurray, welcome to 10 years ago!

Tacitus Kilgore

GreeBo wrote: »

What about the people who just managed to buy the average house...its now worth 250K and will never be back to 380K.

What does your average couple do now? Just accept their lot and live in a starter home forever?
What happens when one or both of your average couple lose their jobs? Perhaps because SF has made Ireland unattractive for the multinationals who make up about 70% of our current growth?

Now they are saddled with debt and have an asset that won't cover it, so what do the banks do?
Well SF is saying they cant sell these loans off, so now the bank has to stop lending to ensure it has the correct debt to reserve ratio.

Hmm, now
- people can't get a mortgage even for these affordable houses.
- banks arent and cant lend
- people are stuck with negative equity
- people are stuck in houses that are not suitable for their current circumstances

Hurray, welcome to 10 years ago!

What is the fix?

GreeBo

limnam wrote: »

If people can't afford to buy it. They'll be stuck anyway

Stuck renting, but not stuck with negative equity.

Any gov should be providing affordable state rentals.
Any drop in value to this impacts landlords, not homeowners.

GreeBo

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

What is the fix?

You tell me, you are the ones who voted in SF to fix the problem and blamed FF/FG for not fixing it.

Diceicle

I've recently been trying to encapsulate why I voted SF for the first time in this election :- its a host of reasons - some economic some social - but I think it comes down to 2 things:
If I voted FF/FG; having seen how they've performed over the last term - do I think they would do better or worse if I voted them in again?
Also, my lot hasn't improved with FG at the helm - at least not in any real terms - middle income workers and families have stagnated under FGs watch.

Tacitus Kilgore

GreeBo wrote: »

You tell me, you are the ones who voted in SF to fix the problem and blamed FF/FG for not fixing it.

Ha :pac: :pac: , I certainly didn't vote SF, I didn't blame FF/FG either, however - I am willing to listen to the electorate, based on who they voted for, and why they say they did.


Personal experience also tells me, that unless you already own property here (whether bought before, at the top, or bottom of the last boom) you are fairly fucking goosed, unless you are coupled up and earning over 80k between ye (and at that - you better not want to live in or near Dublin)

Plumbthedepths

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

So fûck the people who had the temerity to save, borrow for, and buy a home? That it?

Haha, I’m so looking forward to Eoin O’B as housing minister. Bring it on!

Again when did the protection of private equity trump the states responsibility to provide social housing. You might answer instead of your usual bs.

limnam

GreeBo wrote: »

What about the people who just managed to buy the average house...its now worth 250K and will never be back to 380K.

Where are you calculating the130k drop from?


Has there been examples of these drops from social houses been built?


If so can you give some examples of it from FG's recent social housing builds?


They've built more social housing than anyone in the last 30 years.


What impact has that had on negative equity ?


FG are planning on building 60k in the same time frame.


How will they do this without the impact you mention ?

GreeBo wrote: »

What does your average couple do now? Just accept their lot and live in a starter home forever?
What happens when one or both of your average couple lose their jobs? Perhaps because SF has made Ireland unattractive for the multinationals who make up about 70% of our current growth?

I would have assumed the couple/bank stress tested the loan for job loses/wage cuts etc ?


The fact it's 70% of our growth could be a concern.


Similar to when we relied to much on building. Maybe it's time to diversify.

GreeBo wrote: »

Now they are saddled with debt and have an asset that won't cover it, so what do the banks do?
Well SF is saying they cant sell these loans off, so now the bank has to stop lending to ensure it has the correct debt to reserve ratio.

Again, can you explain how FG have managed not to impact building the most social houses in the last 30 years?


How will they manage this with the 60k FG are planning?


Will any party not have a similar issue?

limnam

GreeBo wrote: »

Stuck renting, but not stuck with negative equity.

Any gov should be providing affordable state rentals.
Any drop in value to this impacts landlords, not homeowners.

The couple are stuck now.


Because people can't afford to buy the home for them to move.


social houses built or not, they'll still be stuck.


Again, can you explain how FG's biggest social housing build in 30 years has not impacted?


How will FG's 60k social housing build not impact?


What's FG's magic bullet ?

GreeBo

limnam wrote: »

The couple are stuck now.


Because people can't afford to buy the home for them to move.


social houses built or not, they'll still be stuck.

Again, can you explain how FG's biggest social housing build in 30 years has not impacted?


How will FG's 60k social housing build not impact?


What's FG's magic bullet ?

We are not talking about FG or FF, you are saying that you voted SF in to fix the housing problem.
Explain how they are going to fix it please?

gmisk

rob316 wrote: »

Here is where I would make a start on housing.

Create a public housing body, take control of social housing from the council's.

Increase council tenant rent rate.

Deduct rent from SW income directly. That will avoid any rent arrears.

Abolish the tenant purchase scheme. No way we should be selling off our housing stock for half the market value.

Raise the income limits for social housing to 60k for a working family.

Prioritise working families for social housing allocation.

Clamp down on buy to rent with higher taxes on the landlord.

We need a tax relief system to entice skilled tradesmen from abroad.

Get into the schools across the country and encourage people to consider an apprenticeship instead of going to college for the pointless arts, business degree etc.

Increasing council tenants rent is not going to work...in Dublin 60% are in arrears and how many have been evicted for not paying rent...zero. The rest sounds really sensible.

limnam

GreeBo wrote: »

We are not talking about FG or FF, you are saying that you voted SF in to fix the housing problem.
Explain how they are going to fix it please?

We're talking about how Social houses coming onboard will impact Negative equity.


I'm asking you to show your work on that.


FG building the most social housing in the last 30 years hasn't affected it


if SF build 100k and FG build 60k


If what you're saying is true both will have an impact?


So all parties have the same problem?

Also.

I never said I voted SF so please avoid making assumptions

blanch152

limnam wrote: »

The couple are stuck now.

Because people can't afford to buy the home for them to move.
social houses built or not, they'll still be stuck.

Again, can you explain how FG's biggest social housing build in 30 years has not impacted?
How will FG's 60k social housing build not impact?
What's FG's magic bullet ?

Why do you care what FG's magic bullet is?

Sinn Fein said that they have all the answers. The electorate voted for them on that basis. It is up to Sinn Fein and their supporters to show that their ideas work.

Fann Linn

blanch152 wrote: »

Why do you care what FG's magic bullet is?

Sinn Fein said that they have all the answers. The electorate voted for them on that basis. It is up to Sinn Fein and their supporters to show that their ideas work.

He's making the point that if FF or SF build 100,000 houses the sky will fall down on everyone.

However, if FG build 60,000 there's no such problem according to some.

Jinglejangle69

SF still trying to slate FG even though they got the boot!!

Hasn't anyone told SF yet the results, Matt Carty on Pat Kenny just now had to be reminded a few times the election is over as he sounded like he's still fighting it.

Same with O Brion last night on twitter.

Come on lads it's time to get over FG and realise you got what you wanted.

limnam

blanch152 wrote: »

Why do you care what FG's magic bullet is?

Sinn Fein said that they have all the answers. The electorate voted for them on that basis. It is up to Sinn Fein and their supporters to show that their ideas work.

The question is regarding what already happened.


FG managed to build the most social housing in 30 years without impacting NE.


IF that's true there's no evidence it would in the future.


So eithier FG have a magic bullet or all parties have the same problem

BarryD2

Diceicle wrote: »

I've recently been trying to encapsulate why I voted SF for the first time in this election :- its a host of reasons - some economic some social - but I think it comes down to 2 things:
If I voted FF/FG; having seen how they've performed over the last term - do I think they would do better or worse if I voted them in again?
Also, my lot hasn't improved with FG at the helm - at least not in any real terms - middle income workers and families have stagnated under FGs watch.

And you think your prospects are better under SF? That's a fairly big punt.

Remember the one core SF value is a UI by whatever means, not your prosperity or safety. That core value is behind all their policies, does it further this aim etc?

end of the road

GreeBo wrote: »

Super soundbites lads, but you didnt answer the question.

How are SF going to build more, cheap houses without plunging many others into negative equity?

Its a simple question to be fair, love to hear your answers.

very simply, sf will build the houses and the market will act accordingly.
people are not entitled to have their property value remain at the same value, and it's not the job of the government to protect property value at the expence of the public good.

bubblypop wrote: »

Lol.
Then they will get rid of the special criminal court & the counter terrorism unit, I believe they wanted them retrained & put into uniform roles in 2007!

Maybe Start their own justice, kneecap a few drug dealers.......

they won't get rid of the counter terrorism unit, the unit has the support of the public.
the special criminal court is a non-issue for me and i suspect many others and would be no real loss.

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

So fûck the people who had the temerity to save, borrow for, and buy a home? That it?

Haha, I’m so looking forward to Eoin O’B as housing minister. Bring it on!

no, but rather accepting that it's not the job of government to protect people from the consequences of property speculation and gambling at the expence of the public good.
your asset may increase or decrease in value depending on market conditions.

BarryD2

rob316 wrote: »

Here is where I would make a start on housing.

Create a public housing body, take control of social housing from the council's.

Increase council tenant rent rate.

Deduct rent from SW income directly. That will avoid any rent arrears.

Abolish the tenant purchase scheme. No way we should be selling off our housing stock for half the market value.

Raise the income limits for social housing to 60k for a working family.

Prioritise working families for social housing allocation.

Clamp down on buy to rent with higher taxes on the landlord.

We need a tax relief system to entice skilled tradesmen from abroad.

Get into the schools across the country and encourage people to consider an apprenticeship instead of going to college for the pointless arts, business degree etc.

Exactly the sort of practical policies needed.

I see sheep

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

SF still trying to slate FG even though they got the boot!!

Hasn't anyone told SF yet the results, Matt Carty on Pat Kenny just now had to be reminded a few times the election is over as he sounded like he's still fighting it.

Same with O Brion last night on twitter.

Come on lads it's time to get over FG and realise you got what you wanted.

Tell that to Varadkar, he's still tweeting about FG housing building record

The people have decided Leo, it's bull****

limnam

This is from the FG site


"So between now and 2027, more than 112,000 new social homes will be added to the public housing stock."


FG trying to plunge the country into NE.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

they won't get rid of the counter terrorism unit, the unit has the support of the public.
the special criminal court is a non-issue for me and i suspect many others and would be no real loss.

I think you will find the SCC has the support of the public. particularly since they started to hear trials of criminals involved in gangland crime.
It might bother you if you were called to jury duty in such a trial.

Skylinehead

The "don't build houses, it might affect house values" argument is both singularly ridiculous and a good insight into why SF did so well. I didn't give them a 1 myself but with attitudes like that, who can be surprised?

Damien360

bubblypop wrote: »

I think you will find the SCC has the support of the public. particularly since they started to hear trials of criminals involved in gangland crime.
It might bother you if you were called to jury duty in such a trial.

This is absolutely correct. In and around early 2000’s when the limerick gangs were being brought up on charges, a colleague of mine in Limerick was called up for jury duty. He did everything in his power and went to my boss to get letters of business need to avoid that duty. He wasn’t the only one he told me. The SCC is necessary to deal with the dealers who would kill you happily for being on the jury.

Damien360

Skylinehead wrote: »

The "don't build houses, it might affect house values" argument is both singularly ridiculous and a good insight into why SF did so well. I didn't give them a 1 myself but with attitudes like that, who can be surprised?

I believe there is a recession coming anyway on a global scale as we appear to be at the very tip of the mountain of affordability. House values will be coming down anyway. Avoiding another bailout may become priority.

Tacitus Kilgore

Damien360 wrote: »

This is absolutely correct. In and around early 2000’s when the limerick gangs were being brought up on charges, a colleague of mine in Limerick was called up for jury duty. He did everything in his power and went to my boss to get letters of business need to avoid that duty. He wasn’t the only one he told me. The SCC is necessary to deal with the dealers who would kill you happily for being on the jury.

This ^


And if anyone thinks a single person would sit on a Jury facing down Slab Murphy they are insane.

joeguevara

Every sinn fein supporter that I have spoken to appears to have this belief that the party deserves a shot as they wouldn't make the same mistakes as the others. They appear oblivious that they have been in power in the North for two decades. Everything that they demand politicians to be locked up for in the South has been done by SF in the North. The difference being that in the North the people are a lot worse off with homelessness, suicide etc. far exceeding us here.

https://inequality.org/research/sinn-fein-austerity-record/

limnam

joeguevara wrote: »

Every sinn fein supporter that I have spoken to appears to have this belief that the party deserves a shot as they wouldn't make the same mistakes as the others. They appear oblivious that they have been in power in the North for two decades. Everything that they demand politicians to be locked up for in the South has been done by SF in the North. The difference being that in the North the people are a lot worse off with homelessness, suicide etc. far exceeding us here.

https://inequality.org/research/sinn-fein-austerity-record/

Hard to compare a place where the budget is decided by Westminster