If you voted Sinn Fein in the GE, why did you do it?

Plumbthedepths

godtabh wrote: »

You think SF/FF/FG are in it for the people? We'll have a country run by SF/FF/FG'special divisors' and will look after their own. Cant wait until the scrap the SCC

Whatever about the SCC you could have easily have been talking about the other two big parties.
Just added the others to your post to show how interchangeable your comment is.

Snickers Man

godtabh wrote: »

You think SF are in it for the people? We'll have a country run by SF 'special divisors' and will look after their own. Cant wait until the scrap the SCC

Taht's a different question. I'm asking those who voted SF to say what they would like their government to focus on.
How well they do it is another matter.

Fr_Dougal

Snickers Man wrote: »

Or specifically, what policies would you like a Sinn Fein led government to focus on, if you voted for them in this election?

I didn't vote for them at all, and won't. But I fully accept that many people might have voted for a change because they were just brassed off with the complacency of the "FG stepped out, FF stepped in again" Lanigan's Ball like binary choice we have had for 90 years. We're a proper multi choice democracy, not like the Brits and Yanks with their dopey bipolar systems.

Is availability of housing your key concern for a new government? Or is it the environment/climate change? Do you want a more socialist society with high taxes and equitable public services? No private health care? State schools only?

Or is "Making Ireland United Again" your main concern?

Please take the poll and let us know.

Can you add ‘Protest Vote’ to the list? Seems to be another reason.

quokula

Snickers Man wrote: »

... and at the current level of poll responses, it's clear that this is a very unrepresentative discussion board as the vast majority of people DIDN'T vote for Sinn Fein.

So I guess I'm asking the wrong people.

Three quarters of respondents didn't vote for Sinn Fein, just like three quarters of voters also rejected them. The poll is actually very representative.

Emme

_Brian wrote: »

“Social inequality”

That’s some load of shiit there.
It’s been proven over and over that there are educational amd employment opportunities in Ireland, created under right leaning governments.

People who can be bothered to get themselves educated can do so, then there are plenty of opportunities for employment.

By Social inequality people usually mean that the “won’t work” brigade are fed up not having as many nice things as people who’ve made an effort and gone out and work for their stuff.

It's difficult to break out of a cycle of disadvantage if you grew up in an area where nobody worked, your parents never worked and your grandparents never worked. On the other hand there are people in direct provision who get up every day and travel long distances to college. Perhaps they come from a country where education was an expectation before whatever event forced them to seek asylum.

Most of the Sinn Fein seat holders are educated to degree if not masters level. Mary Lou comes from a privileged background but many of the other Sinn Fein seat holders do not. Their success should spur on people from disadvantaged backgrounds to improve their lot. They should actively encourage people who normally would not pursue education to do so. However education should be seen as a way for everyone to improve their lot.

If young girls think they can do better by having children early in life than somebody with a degree what is the incentive? In the early 2000s a teacher who taught in a disadvantaged girls school was saving every cent for a deposit on a house. She did without holidays or new clothes in order to do so. She took public transport. The girls she taught were very astute, she got on well with them and they asked her about her lifestyle. One said to her 'what's the point of you working so hard when you have to go without so much to get a house?' At that time it was easier for young girls who had children early to get a house or apartment. Another girl asked her if she would like new clothes and said they could get them for her. The teacher said she was ok and how would they get the clothes anyway. They replied that they would lift them for her in any shop she wanted!

It's wrong that smart working class girls like that felt the best choice they could make in life was to have children early. It's not as easy now to get housed but they should be steered in the direction of education or apprenticeships instead of putting a band aid on the problems of disadvantage with other solutions. Free childcare would go a long way towards helping these girls help themselves. It would also help people on low to medium incomes feel that work is worthwhile rather than a futile slog.

It would be unorthodox to legalise and tax drugs but the cocaine trade is not going to go away. Recently a young man died tragically because he was involved in this business. I couldn't help but notice he had the best of everything, things he would not have if he had an ordinary job or was working in a shop while studying at college. If young men in disadvantaged areas can do better in crime what is the incentive for them to study or do an apprenticeship? There is a "live fast die young" mentality among these young men, they don't see the point in deferring reward later in return for effort now.

I really hope that Sinn Fein help working people on low to medium incomes. These people voted for them because they are fed up of commuting, working, paying for everything after tax and coming out with nothing at the end of the month or even in debt.

rob316

Housing and Health.

I also wanted FF and FG to get a good kick in the bollox realizing there is a 3rd party out there. You can't con the electorate anymore that ye aren't the same. FG in particular have deserted the squeezed middle.

Mr Tickle

Snickers Man wrote: »

... and at the current level of poll responses, it's clear that this is a very unrepresentative discussion board as the vast majority of people DIDN'T vote for Sinn Fein.

So I guess I'm asking the wrong people.

I think a "protest vote" option in the poll might have been interesting. I think there was a number of people who wanted "anyone but FFG".

Sinn Fein were the next biggest party who people thought might have a chance at getting a lot of seats. The whole left made (relatively) big gains.

I'd be very curious how many people would have preferred Labour/Soc Dems if they had known there'd be this level of swing.

Ballso

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It's clear what you're at, just another thread to carry on the whinging that has been at play since the count started.
You left out one of reasons why people voted the why they did on purpose to suit your own agenda.

You'd better get used to it. If SF go into power they instantly become responsible for every facet of and every problem in everyone's lives. They will be expected to resolve all these issues, no matter how complex, overnight. If they don't, they will be lambasted every hour on the hour by hordes of Twitter malcontents.

Luckily for SF all of our problems are trivial to solve, and without creating problems elsewhere too! At least that's what they've been telling us in opposition. Phew.

Lonesomerhodes

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Simpleton millennial types who actually think Sinn Fein will give free houses and fix the housing crisis.

Doubt one actually read any Sinn Fein material.

Mindless left populism.

I think Sinn Fein are a crap choice.

Shinners have many dud candidates, Dessie Ellis for example. Ould codger codding them all.

Same with a few of the other chancers, never did nothing but line thier own pockets and take brown envelopes from RA drug dealers.

I've always been bemused by using populism as a derogatory term. Is democracy not essentially popularity contest? The person who is most popular with, you know, the most votes gets in?

Plumbthedepths

Snickers Man wrote: »

OK. I'll type slowly.

A lot of people voted Sinn Fein.
Sinn Fein will probably be in government as a or the leading partner.
I would like people to know what they would like that government to focus on.
That way we will get an indication of how likely people are to be vindicated or betrayed by their choice.

Example: if we see that many would like to see a determined house-building program put in place to alleviate accommodation shortages, or more investment in health, then it is clear that that is what a new government should focus on.

If it then chooses to prioritise other things like, say, organising border polls or grandstanding on Language Acts or throwing shapes on international issues of peripheral concern (Palestine, Venezuela, Black Lives Matter in America) then we can infer that people are likely to get pissed off with them sooner rather than later.

It's not whinging. It's holding up to Sinn Fein what those who read this thread want to see them do. Having voted for them.
That's all.

As I said you purposely ignored one of the reasons why SF got votes, a protest vote was mentioned by all media. Some people even mentioned to the media that exact reason for their voting intentions. I just pointed out the narrowness of your poll and to me it smacks deliberately of an attempt to push an agenda.

20Cent

Emmet Kirwan summed it up well on tv last night.
You work hard and you will eventually have your own home and raise a family.
That is the plan most people have.

This is not possible now for most people.
No matter how hard you work you will never get your head above water. Paying rent and saving for a home. We've had decades of this and people are looking for other solutions.

FF FG put "the market", multinationals etc first before the population and that has now come back and hit them in the face.


The story of the election is how FF/FG fcuked up so bad people turned to Sinn Fein.

mullinr2

Xterminator wrote: »

Housing & health, and social inequality.

Social inequality my bollax. Those in low skilled jobs get paid lower. Those in high skilled jobs get paid more and rightly so.

Snickers Man

quokula wrote: »

Three quarters of respondents didn't vote for Sinn Fein, just like three quarters of voters also rejected them. The poll is actually very representative.

I was just going to say that, and retract my previous comment

Well spotted.

rob316

_Brian wrote: »

The problem is families who have been intentionally generationally unemployed want the state to provide them with the same standard of living as families who over the generations have worked hard and ensured their children have been educated well and strive to better themselves.

That’s communist thinking where everyone should have the same no matter what they do.

The solution to “Social inequality” is get your of your arse and get doing something. Make sure your kids go to school, make sure they get a trade or a skill or go to college. Make sure they have pet time jobs to teach them that workers get paid and getting kid is how you better yourself.
Showing them that a life on SW popping out sprigs to a raft of different fathers is just dooming them to lower standards of living.

Well your wrong there as there voter base was mostly young, low to middle income earners. This wonderful brilliant economy we keep hearing about isn't washing with us and we aren't seen any benefit of it. Most of this generation have absolutely no chance of owning a home and if you do you'll be paying a mortgage till you go in the ground.

gct

I've worked hard all my life. I started work at 15. Left school with no exams because I had to. I worked throughout the 80's recession and fell for all the old guff CJ haughey spouted about taking the pain and working hard for peanuts to make the country better for Our children. (How did I fall for that one?) After the last crash I struggled to pay My mortgage and other bills but I never missed a payment, unlike a lot of people who strategically defaulted on mortgages and welched on debts. Again it was Me who took the pain. I'm told were in recovery but My pocket hasn't seen any recovery. I can't even go for a pint anymore. For example,After the last crash I was paying €4 for a pint, now its €6, a 50% mark up. My wages haven't increased more than a couple of per cent in that period.What I see is the rich getting richer while the poor get poorer. Its always been that way to a certain degree but the last government pushed it too far and to the point where I have had enough. FF and FG have proved time and time again that they cannot improve My quality of life. I want change.

Emme

Mr Tickle wrote: »

I think a "protest vote" option in the poll might have been interesting. I think there was a number of people who wanted "anyone but FFG".

Sinn Fein were the next biggest party who people thought might have a chance at getting a lot of seats. The whole left made (relatively) big gains.

I'd be very curious how many people would have preferred Labour/Soc Dems if they had known there'd be this level of swing.

Labour shafted the working class at the time of the bailout and people are still bitter about this. The popular hard working Labour candidate in my constituency did not get a seat this time round which is unheard of. If Labour were a viable option Sinn Fein would not have done as well.

Ush1

When people say housing or health, what specifically are Sinn Fein going to do to fix those issues that the other parties aren't already doing or have tried?

Ballso

20Cent wrote: »

Emmet Kirwan summed it up well on tv last night.
You work hard and you will eventually have your own home and raise a family.
That is the plan most people have.

This is not possible now for most people.
No matter how hard you work you will never get your head above water. Paying rent and saving for a home. We've had decades of this and people are looking for other solutions.

FF FG put "the market", multinationals etc first before the population and that has now come back and hit them in the face.


The story of the election is how FF/FG fcuked up so bad people turned to Sinn Fein.

I thought this was a left wing revolution, not a movement to gain access to private credit to own private property (while paying no property tax).

Huh.

rob316

Ush1 wrote: »

When people say housing or health, what specifically are Sinn Fein going to do to fix those issues that the other parties aren't already doing or have tried?

You keep saying this in every thread. What is the point of continuing with a failed system in both? Its bad, it can't really get any worse.

Are you as a voter happy with health and housing in this country? Do you have children and are you a homeowner?

Ush1

Ballso wrote: »

I thought this was a left wing revolution, not a movement to gain access to private credit to own private property (while paying no property tax).

Huh.

Not to mention SF voters want to pay less tax whilst also seeing less investment in public infrastructure.

It's the most right wing left wing revolution I've seen.

Ballso

Ush1 wrote: »

When people say housing or health, what specifically are Sinn Fein going to do to fix those issues that the other parties aren't already doing or have tried?

Tax de rich

tea and coffee

Protest vote is like going out with the "bold lad" from down the road to píss your parents off.
Great now you're pregnant by him. What are you going to do now?
Voting someone to give two fingers without any forethought about what else you might like to see policy wise doesn't make sense, imo.
You have to be protesting *against* something. So what policies did you vote for, as per Snickers man?
(In reply to those asking for a Protest Vote button)

rob316

Ballso wrote: »

I thought this was a left wing revolution, not a movement to gain access to private credit to own private property (while paying no property tax).

Huh.

Its about ****ing affordability and fairness. Keep banging the drum about free houses with your head in the sand, its ****ing boring.

jimgoose

Ballso wrote: »

I thought this was a left wing revolution, not a movement to gain access to private credit to own private property (while paying no property tax).

Huh.

SF's plan is not only to be the greatest left-wing, worker-friendly, big public service, high-tax/low-tax/whatever government ever, but also to be a better and more effective FG than FG could dream of. It'll be ruddy great! :pac::pac::pac:

Ush1

rob316 wrote: »

You keep saying this in every thread. What is the point of continuing with a failed system in both? Its bad, it can't really get any worse.

Are you as a voter happy with health and housing in this country? Do you have children and are you a homeowner?

Please don't be that naive.

Yes, I do have kids, this would be all be great craic if I didn't.
I genuinely wish SF the best, I hope things improve but the rational part of my brain can't bridge the gaps.

Ballso

Ush1 wrote: »

Not to mention SF voters want to pay less tax whilst also seeing less investment in public infrastructure.

It's the most right wing left wing revolution I've seen.

People want the tax base narrowed and spending increased. Like FF did. But we can't vote FF cos they destroyed the country.

Wait, SF will narrow the tax base and increase spending, let's vote for them!

Ffs

Gunmonkey

Snickers Man wrote: »

OK. I'll type slowly.

A lot of people voted Sinn Fein.
Sinn Fein will probably be in government as a or the leading partner.
I would like people to know what they would like that government to focus on.
That way we will get an indication of how likely people are to be vindicated or betrayed by their choice.

Example: if we see that many would like to see a determined house-building program put in place to alleviate accommodation shortages, or more investment in health, then it is clear that that is what a new government should focus on.

If it then chooses to prioritise other things like, say, organising border polls or grandstanding on Language Acts or throwing shapes on international issues of peripheral concern (Palestine, Venezuela, Black Lives Matter in America) then we can infer that people are likely to get pissed off with them sooner rather than later.

It's not whinging. It's holding up to Sinn Fein what those who read this thread want to see them do. Having voted for them.
That's all.

So why not add some actual good options to the poll then, seeing as only about 4 are domestic policy, and not even sensible ones at that (tax the rich! nationalise the banks!)

Wheres the options for:

-reform of the HSE (its needed more than just dumping more billions per year into it)
-decentralisation of Dublin, gonna be hilarious all those who vote SF outside Dublin see all the high rises shooting up there and sweet F all outside the Pale
-the agriculture/green policy division
-education and the need to pull back from "you need a degree for anything" and push apprenticeships/lower 3rd lvl training, and whatever reforms might be needed
-childcare costs
-as others mentioned, the "they arent FF/FG" option

Instead its all Nationalist/Rebuplican wankery and hard, Marxist left policy that carried SF in, apparantly

jimgoose

Ballso wrote: »

People want the tax base narrowed and spending increased. Like FF did. But we can't vote FF cos they destroyed the country...

...largely by narrowing the tax base and increasing spending. Narrowing the tax base is the diametric opposite of what needs to happen.

DeanAustin

I didn't and wouldn't vote Sinn Fein because I struggle to get by their past (and incidents like Cullinane shouting "Up the Ra" indicate that mindset hasn't gone away) and because I think their policies are economically naive and populist.

But I think they should get their chance for a number of reasons. We've never had a government like the one they are potentially going to form. I don't believe in it but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it will be better.

My own belief is that a lot of people don't know what real problems are. When I hear stuff like "Ireland is a kip" or "Ireland is unfair", it really annoys me because I've been in countries that are truly unfair. We have it good here. I think hitting FG and FF as maintaining the "status quo" as if that's automatically a bad thing is like shooting fish in a barrel. A lot of people want utopia as if there is a magic money pit that could fix all our problems "if only FG and FF weren't so incompetent and corrupt. And **** them if they think theyll tax us any more. Stealing from the working man to line their own pockets." In government, I think Sinn Fein and particularly their supporters will realise that there are no magic solutions and the status quo is not so bad.

My biggest fear is that SF end up in opposition because if they do, the resentment with FF and FG will get stronger and in the next election, SF will win a much bigger majority.

I don't like it, I think they will fail but Sinn Fein have earned their shot at government. Good luck to them.

JohnnyFlash

jimgoose wrote: »

SF's plan is not only to be the greatest left-wing, worker-friendly, big public service, high-tax/low-tax/whatever government ever, but also to be a better and more effective FG than FG could dream of. It'll be ruddy great! :pac::pac::pac:

Pearse Doherty is a financial genius. Can see things that us mere mortals cannot. There’s money there to both cut taxes and improve services and infrastructure. We just don’t have the mental capacity to see how.