If you voted Sinn Fein in the GE, why did you do it?

Snickers Man

Mr Tickle wrote: »

I think a "protest vote" option in the poll might have been interesting. I think there was a number of people who wanted "anyone but FFG".

.

OK. The first line of the OP says "specifically, what policies would you like a Sinn Fein led government to focus on, if you voted for them in this election?

It's blatantly obvious that in ANY election ANYWHERE at ANY time, a swing to an opposition party is evidence to some degree of dissatisfaction with the incumbent. After all, the primary purpose of elections is not to vote somebody in; it's to get the incumbent bastards out!

That being said, it is also usual for a victorious party to say "We have been given a mandate by the people" and infer from that that they can do what they like.

The question essentially asks people who voted for Sinn Fein: "What mandate did you give them? What do you want to see them DO? WE BLOODY KNOW YOU WERE PISSED OFF WITH FG AND IT'S LONG TIME ALTERNATE FF!!!

It's what Basil Fawlty would have called a statement of the bleeding obvious.

A clear indication of what people want from them, compared with what they actually do in the near future, will give some indication as to how quickly, if at all, people get pissed off with THEM.

stryker mcqueen

I voted for change , time will tell if it happens but but IMO we needed an alternative to FF & FG.

Scoundrel

I want statues of Bobby Sands on every corner I want masked colour parties parading down the streets of Dublin every Friday I want Sarah Carey to be forced to read aloud Gerry Adams 20 books about himself constantly public horse whippings of Eoghan Harris and Ruth Dudley Edwards.

Ush1

Sorry to post this again but it's relevant to this thread.

SF voters are more Fine Gael than Fine Gael!

https://twitter.com/RMcGreevy1301/status/1226849060155465728?s=19

Snickers Man

Gunmonkey wrote: »

So why not add some actual good options to the poll then, seeing as only about 4 are domestic policy, and not even sensible ones at that (tax the rich! nationalise the banks!)

Wheres the options for:

-reform of the HSE (its needed more than just dumping more billions per year into it)
-decentralisation of Dublin, gonna be hilarious all those who vote SF outside Dublin see all the high rises shooting up there and sweet F all outside the Pale
-the agriculture/green policy division
-education and the need to pull back from "you need a degree for anything" and push apprenticeships/lower 3rd lvl training, and whatever reforms might be needed
-childcare costs
-as others mentioned, the "they arent FF/FG" option

Fair point. And I meant to put in a question about environment. But I still think I covered the major ones of health, education and housing.

El Tarangu

Deleted User wrote: »

I've always been bemused by using populism as a derogatory term. Is democracy not essentially popularity contest? The person who is most popular with, you know, the most votes gets in?

Because it's offering easy solutions for complex problems.

SF are saying that not only will they increase spending in pensions, social, welfare, housing, etc, but they will also cut taxes for everyone at the same time. This is neither viable fiscally conservative agenda, nor a viable high-tax, high-spend agenda - they are claiming to be all things to all people.

I see sheep

_Brian wrote: »

“Social inequality”

That’s some load of shiit there.
It’s been proven over and over that there are educational amd employment opportunities in Ireland, created under right leaning governments.

People who can be bothered to get themselves educated can do so, then there are plenty of opportunities for employment.

By Social inequality people usually mean that the “won’t work” brigade are fed up not having as many nice things as people who’ve made an effort and gone out and work for their stuff.

Wow, this is a new view in AH, wonder will it catch on at all?

Mr Tickle

Emme wrote: »

Labour shafted the working class at the time of the bailout and people are still bitter about this. The popular hard working Labour candidate in my constituency did not get a seat this time round which is unheard of. If Labour were a viable option Sinn Fein would not have done as well.

I largely agree on this. I think the that the idea that "Labour shafted the working class" isn't entirely fair though. Yes, the working class were seriously squeezed under a Labour government, but they were the minority party in a coalition who had no money to spend.

I do think they could have dealt with the Troika better but at the same time they didn't have a whole lot of bargaining power.

They seem to have gotten a disproportionate amount of the blame for that austerity compared to FG. Is it just that people had higher expectations of them?

animum

I voted for the first time for SF this time around and my main concern is housing, my mom and her partner are in their later phase in life, both divorced and as a result, they are renting, the landlord has told them to go, they both work unskilled jobs and have a genuine fear for their future.

My brother has a young family are also renting, my sister moved to France as the cost of renting in Ireland is too much for any young family as childcare is the cost of one mortgage in itself.

People say get out and get educated, thats all well and good, but I know my son wants to study in Galway, so I will prob take a second job to keep a roof over his head as I live in Cork.

My family alone highlight 3 different life stages and the struggles of each when it comes to renting/ homes. And we have all worked very hard all our lives.

Money follows money in this country.. and security comes from money., Those in FF/FG have power money and security, and were so removed from the realities all alot of peoples lives in this country, that they needed to go.

SF wont be able to fix everything, but at least there will be a voice at the table to speak of some of the realities of life for some in Ireland. No harm can come from that. At least they can try.

golondrinas

Mad_maxx wrote: »

You mean colette browne the socialist?

Yeah the very wan who said there are no black gangs in Balbriggan duh!!

PmMeUrDogs

I gave SF my #2, Soc Dem my #1.


As for why? Truly, I don't believe SF can change much. I was chatting about it to friends (who all voted SF) and I feel like a lot of their plans (such as taxing the "rich" more) are unrealistic and probably won't work very well.



But I guess it was a protest vote. It's not necessarily that I want FG/FF out. I did, however, want them getting a kick up the backside so they'd realise the level of discontent in the country, and realise they're not guaranteed their seats.


I'd more closely align with Soc Dem's ideals, which is why they got my #1, but it'll be very interesting to see how everything plays out.



Housing is a concern for me, and I'd imagine the housing issue is the main driver for people voting SF, it certainly was for my friends. For me personally, health is my main concern because I'm unfortunately enormously affected by the waiting lists and stuff that goes with the public health system (insurance won't cover my pre-existing conditions for several years before anyone suggests I go private) and my life is essentially on hold until I make my way through the waiting lists I've been on for years now.



So I guess for me, it was a protest vote.

Snickers Man

Scoundrel wrote: »

I want statues of Bobby Sands on every corner I want masked colour parties parading down the streets of Dublin every Friday I want Sarah Carey to be forced to read aloud Gerry Adams 20 books about himself constantly public horse whippings of Eoghan Harris and Ruth Dudley Edwards.

Hmm.
If we were in negotiations, I'd meet you part of the way. You can have the Eoghan Harris Ruth Dudley Edwards bits.

Cina

"What do we want?"
"Change!"
"When do we want it?"
"Now!"
"What do we want to change?"
" :pac: "

joe40

Scoundrel wrote: »

I want statues of Bobby Sands on every corner I want masked colour parties parading down the streets of Dublin every Friday I want Sarah Carey to be forced to read aloud Gerry Adams 20 books about himself constantly public horse whippings of Eoghan Harris and Ruth Dudley Edwards.

Public horse whipping of Eoghan Harris is a perfectly reasonable suggestion:)

I see sheep

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Simpleton millennial types who actually think Sinn Fein will give free houses and fix the housing crisis.

Doubt one actually read any Sinn Fein material.

Mindless left populism.

I think Sinn Fein are a crap choice.

Shinners have many dud candidates, Dessie Ellis for example. Ould codger codding them all.

Same with a few of the other chancers, never did nothing but line thier own pockets and take brown envelopes from RA drug dealers.

I'll raise you:

Simpleton right wing types types who actually don't think there's a housing crisis.

Doubt one actually read any FFG material.

Mindless right wing populism.

I think FFG are a crap choice.

FFG have many so dud candidates there's too many for example :P.

Same with a few of the other chancers, never did nothing but line their own pockets and take brown envelopes from developers/dodgy businessmen/absolutely anyone who was offering

Ballso

So I guess for me, it was a protest vote.

A bit like the Brexit vote in England then?

PmMeUrDogs

Ballso wrote: »

A bit like the Brexit vote in England then?

Couldn't tell you, I didn't vote in the Brexit referendum and everyone I know who did, voted against it, so I can't speak for those who voted for Brexit.

DeanAustin

El Tarangu wrote: »

Because it's offering easy solutions for complex problems.

SF are saying that not only will they increase spending in pensions, social, welfare, housing, etc, but they will also cut taxes for everyone at the same time. This is neither viable fiscally conservative agenda, nor a viable high-tax, high-spend agenda - they are claiming to be all things to all people.

Exactly, if people understand this, it's a big worry.

The problem with democracy, in my view, is that it is a popularity contest that encourages short term or medium term thinking at best. If you can't accomplish it in 5 years don't bother coz it won't win you votes and you'll never get a chance to accomplish it anyway.

This is why some of the parish pump politicians (I won't name names but you know who I mean) get in. It's because people worry about what they can get in the short term and **** what's good for the country or what'll be best in the longer term. It's why the graphic above about SF, tax and public spending exists.

Benevolent dictatorship is the way forward.

Plumbthedepths

Ballso wrote: »

A bit like the Brexit vote in England then?

Apples and oranges tbh.

Fr_Dougal

Snickers Man wrote: »

OK. The first line of the OP says "specifically, what policies would you like a Sinn Fein led government to focus on, if you voted for them in this election?

It's blatantly obvious that in ANY election ANYWHERE at ANY time, a swing to an opposition party is evidence to some degree of dissatisfaction with the incumbent. After all, the primary purpose of elections is not to vote somebody in; it's to get the incumbent bastards out!

That being said, it is also usual for a victorious party to say "We have been given a mandate by the people" and infer from that that they can do what they like.

The question essentially asks people who voted for Sinn Fein: "What mandate did you give them? What do you want to see them DO? WE BLOODY KNOW YOU WERE PISSED OFF WITH FG AND IT'S LONG TIME ALTERNATE FF!!!

It's what Basil Fawlty would have called a statement of the bleeding obvious.

A clear indication of what people want from them, compared with what they actually do in the near future, will give some indication as to how quickly, if at all, people get pissed off with THEM.

You’re talking too much sense. A protest vote is generally an emotional response, mostly you won’t have clearly defined reasons in mind, or if you do, you certainly won’t have well thought out solutions. The voters bought into the ambiguous ‘change’ mantra.

Gunmonkey

Snickers Man wrote: »

Fair point. And I meant to put in a question about environment. But I still think I covered the major ones of health, education and housing.

Ah give it a rest, you were caught out with your nonsense so at least own it. You put options for "commemerating the 1919/1923 fighters" and "nationalising the banks" (which I heard nowt of during the election, or for several years apart from the worst armchair economists, mind you) but you "think you covered" the major topics affecting our country right now?

Just start shouting "Up the 'RA!" and "Brits out!" and leave it at that, this poll is a ****show as is.

jimgoose

tea and coffee wrote: »

Protest vote is like going out with the "bold lad" from down the road to píss your parents off.
Great now you're pregnant by him. What are you going to do now?...

I like that, that's a pretty good analogy.

I see sheep

Fr_Dougal

Ush1 wrote: »

Sorry to post this again but it's relevant to this thread.

SF voters are more Fine Gael than Fine Gael!

https://twitter.com/RMcGreevy1301/status/1226849060155465728?s=19

I had a look at the exit poll survey last night. The majority of SF voters chose a change of government policies over a new government.

SF voters wanted the same government, without SF, but with better policies.

You couldn’t make it up.

El Tarangu

El Tarangu wrote: »

Because it's offering easy solutions for complex problems.

SF are saying that not only will they increase spending in pensions, social, welfare, housing, etc, but they will also cut taxes for everyone at the same time. This is neither viable fiscally conservative agenda, nor a viable high-tax, high-spend agenda - they are claiming to be all things to all people.

SF policies might not make sense but you aren't really addressing the contradiction of the term populism

osarusan

Definitely an element of a protest vote.

It may have been a confidence and supply deal, but as far as a lot of the public were concerned, it was FG and FF together, and for people wo wanted 'change' SF were the only alternative with a hope of getting a meaningful amount of seats. In that sense, a vote for 'the party' rather than the candidate.

Violet-Anne Wynne in Clare is an example of this I think. Finished 2nd last in Kilrush local elections last year. She put up, by her own estimate, about 20 posters in the county, didn't do that much canvassing in the east part of the county at all, yet burst through with a huge number of first preference votes in a county which is as traditional FF and FG as you can get.

One of RTE's analysts admitted he'd never even heard of her until the day of the election, and I believe a lot of people who voted for her would know next to nothing about her either, but just decided not to vote for FF or FG because they were sick of them.

limnam

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Simpleton millennial types who actually think Sinn Fein will give free houses and fix the housing crisis.

Doubt one actually read any Sinn Fein material.

Mindless left populism.

I think Sinn Fein are a crap choice.

Shinners have many dud candidates, Dessie Ellis for example. Ould codger codding them all.

Same with a few of the other chancers, never did nothing but line thier own pockets and take brown envelopes from RA drug dealers.

That can only be FG level of arrogance to assume the most popular party between 18-65 are too stupid to vote the "right" way.


If people are that desperate for a roof over their heads FG can only have made a right bloody balls of it.

ratracer

Regarding housing:

A lot of folks screaming for the got to build social housing on public land.
During the boom, for the purpose of ‘inclusiveness’, developers were required to allocate some of their developments for social/ affordable housing. This is still a requirement AFAIK, with the buyout option of donating equivalent money to the local authority in lieu of houses now removed.
When this policy was brought in, was it not too remove the percieved stigma of living in local authority housing estates? And are we now saying we want to go back to how it was in the 60/70/80’s and have LA’s just build loads and we’ll accept it?

It's ridiculous that if you don't vote for the two biggest parties, who are essentially the same, its a protest vote. I'd prefer to know why people are still voting for FFG.

jimgoose

osarusan wrote: »

...One of RTE's analysts admitted he'd never even heard of her until the day of the election...

Was that Fionnán Sheahan, by any chance? One of the most informed and ferociously intelligent analysts/commentators in Irish media. That'll tell you. :pac: