If you voted Sinn Fein in the GE, why did you do it?

limnam

johnmcdnl wrote: »

A single person earning 50-60k can save 1k per month without going crazy. If you do that for 3-4 years that's in the region of 40k.
For a couple both on decent money, that could be 80k saved since the last general election.

What % of couples have a combined income of excess of 100-120k
What % of those have no additional costs such as child care etc?

jimgoose

jimgoose wrote: »

SF will "fix" precisely fuck-all, and will be run out of Leinster House inside twelve months. :pac:

they won't though, because Sinn Fein has a Brexit/Corbyn type cult around it. They can make a complete and utter balls up of everything and it would always be someone else's fault.

I see sheep

Ballso wrote: »

None of these parties can fix health..

the housing crisis will not be resolved for another decade at least, .

You've been used to things being one way for so long so you just accept things being ****.

This is perhaps the most damning indictment of FF/FG in power, and more generally of right wing neo liberal in power anywhere.

They make the people believe they don't deserve any better.

We should be happy not be out toiling in the fields.

There is no reason there should be a housing or healthcare crisis.

There is a a housing and healthcare crisis because of decisions governments have made.

jam_mac_jam

johnmcdnl wrote: »

A single person earning 50-60k can save 1k per month without going crazy. If you do that for 3-4 years that's in the region of 40k.
For a couple both on decent money, that could be 80k saved since the last general election.

If your a couple earning lower wages (25k let's say), its still 40k savings between you.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/spending-money-diary-ireland-14-4936400-Dec2019/

Yes this guy is commuting from Kildare, but maybe that's the trade off some people make to save. Many don't want to make tradeoffs like that. But it's hard to have it both ways. He's also got cheap rent but paying a heap of money on train tickets and car repayments and petrol. you could live closer to work with higher rents and ride a bicycle instead if you'd rather. But yes maybe you do need to make a sacrifice or choice on some things.

Obviously if you have childcare costs this mightn't be the case, but there's certainly a lot of people who can afford if they work hard, and out in the effort just like the guy you replied to did.
Financial discipline, and the right attitude and the a little bit of luck that things don't go pear shaped goes a long way.

For some this might not be possible and I accept that, but there's lots of people who it is true for, especially if your earning over the average wage.

Not if they are paying 2k a month in rent. A lot of people aren't earning over the average.

BASHIR

Aegir wrote: »

they won't though, because Sinn Fein has a Brexit/Corbyn type cult around it. They can make a complete and utter balls up of everything and it would always be someone else's fault.

The cult must of been on holidays for the local elections

1o059k7ewrqj3n

Housing, pure and simple.

People aren’t looking for a free house. They want a chance to buy and own their own first and foremost.

Failing that, people who rent want to be able to do so in a safe market, not to be in a precarious position of uncertainty, not to pay extortionate rents.

FF and FG have had their chance to fix things, and they’ve done exactly what a party of landlords and businessmen would have done.

B-D-P--

To break the FF&FG system
Kick the shane rosses of the world out.

Let them know that their "Ahh sure it'll be grand, we'll still get in" ideology should be forgotten.

TD's should have to remain hungry to keep their seat.

johnmcdnl

limnam wrote: »

What % of couples have a combined income of excess of 100-120k
What % of those have no additional costs such as child care etc?

Poster I responded too said he earns over the average wage in Dublin. So he should be on 50k or so. He claimed the idea of saving to buy was absolutely unrealistic to the point where dreaming on sitting in a house with a box as s kitchen table seems like a fantasy.

For someone earning more than the average salary, even if their partner has a lower wage, that seems a little bit of a stretch if they are being financially disciplined and make some sacrifices in the short term to save for a mortgage.

I didn't say it was easy, but let's not pretend it's impossible.

Ballso

I see sheep wrote: »

There is no reason there should be a housing or healthcare crisis.

There's no reason there should be a housing crisis? Seriously? Our economy crashed in 2008 because of gross mismanagement, narrowing the tax base, ridiculous spending and a bubble economy. The Japanese still haven't recovered from their bubble 30 years later.

Putting another government in to narrow the tax base, increase spending and plunder the functional economy is not a fix, it's the same policies that caused the crash again.

Health can be improved by sorting out the HSE. This involves cutting public sector jobs, SF/FF will never do this.

limnam

johnmcdnl wrote: »

I didn't say it was easy, but let's not pretend it's impossible.

It been possible for a very small monitory of the country is not much good really is it.

limnam

Celebrities saying up the ra and trending on twitter.


Will FG/FF ever learn..

johnmcdnl

limnam wrote: »

It been possible for a very small monitory of the country is not much good really is it.

I completely acknowledge that and I do fully understand that is why someone earning below the average wage would want change to help make it more affordable. Absolutely no issue with having that opinion.

I do take issue with someone who is claiming to be on a good salary, saying it is impossible to save though. I've plenty of friends on decent if not huge salaries who have managed to buy homes in Dublin. All have made some sacrifices to get there but they managed and best of luck to them. It's more than possible with the right attitude even if it is hard. Just like the original poster from 1999 said it was.

I see sheep

Ballso wrote: »

There's no reason there should be a housing crisis? Seriously? Our economy crashed in 2008 because of gross mismanagement, narrowing the tax base, ridiculous spending and a bubble economy.

So, the economy crashed due to FF/FG policies, but yes let's keep them in foveva lads.

Ballso wrote: »

Health can be improved by sorting out the HSE. This involves cutting public sector jobs, SF/FF will never do this.

Sort out the health system by cutting jobs!

Why not just privatise it 100%? US model?

BASHIR

johnmcdnl wrote: »

I completely acknowledge that and I do fully understand that is why someone earning below the average wage would want change to help make it more affordable. Absolutely no issue with having that opinion.

I do take issue with someone who is claiming to be on a good salary, saying it is impossible to save though. I've plenty of friends on decent if not huge salaries who have managed to buy homes in Dublin. All have made some sacrifices to get there but they managed and best of luck to them. It's more than possible with the right attitude even if it is hard. Just like the original poster from 1999 said it was.

Can I ask what sacrifices you are suggesting? Not having a go, just trying to gauge what you see as acceptable.

limnam

johnmcdnl wrote: »

I completely acknowledge that and I do fully understand that is why someone earning below the average wage would want change to help make it more affordable. Absolutely no issue with having that opinion.

But it's not just people on low wages.


I'm a high wage earner.
Home owner. private health insurance holder etc


That doesn't mean I don't want problems in the country solved for others
Or I don't want people in this country left on trollys etc.


Everyone in this country should want change.
What we've had for decades is not good enough


What we've had for the last 10 years is not good enough.


That doesn't mean SF have all the answers. But you should definitely want change.

johnmcdnl wrote: »

I do take issue with someone who is claiming to be on a good salary, saying it is impossible to save though. I've plenty of friends on decent if not huge salaries who have managed to buy homes in Dublin. All have made some sacrifices to get there but they managed and best of luck to them. It's more than possible with the right attitude even if it is hard. Just like the original poster from 1999 said it was.

But the fact your friends have done it is irrelevant.


The median wage is 30k or there about.


That means a hell of a lot of people cannot do it.

Ballso

I see sheep wrote: »

So, the economy crashed due to FF/FG policies, but yes let's keep them forera lads

FF policies. Which are the same as SF's current policies.

ratracer

I see sheep wrote: »

Sort out the health system by cutting jobs!

Why not just privatise it 100%? US model?

How do you see the health crisis being repaired?

twowheelsonly

johnmcdnl wrote: »

Change of what specifically and why, is what the question is.

It's easy to ask for change as a generic statement without actually stating what your vision is.

For example there's been lots of talk of the housing issues - by what measure will we decide that the housing issues have been solved or addressed?
Is it finding a way to ensure the average house price in Dublin is 3.5x the average salary?
Is it finding a way to ensure that the average rent is x% of the average salary?
................

Build social housing, in much the same way as it was done for generations. Direct build this time rather than Public/Private partnerships. Priority should be for working people. (Rent paid by direct debit should be mandatory BTW.)
Once they can start getting on top of that then scrap HAP payments.
That alone will drive down both house prices and rents.
Landlords will have no choice but to adapt and bring their rents into line with the general market.

Landlords, both large multi nationals and small local guys, are investors by nature. With investment comes risk. There is no divine right to have your mortgage paid by renters. The investment pays off at the end and not necessarily from the first day of the investment which, it seems to me, is what small investors/landlords expect. Some people belittle the 'Free House' brigade yet essentially expect much the same themselves by virtue of the fact that they're renting out an investment property.
Whatever about the small guy, a decent drop in rents would certainly deter the large vulture funds who are making an absolute killing here - a significant proportion of which comes from HAP payments - i.e. from you , me and everybody..

I see sheep

Ballso wrote: »

FF policies. Which are the same as SF's current policies.

You'll have to await and see what they do, right now you're just speculating.

I'm not speculating about FF/FG, it has happened. It is fact.

I see sheep

ratracer wrote: »

How do you see the health crisis being repaired?

Needs huge investment at every level.

Train more nurses, train more doctors.

And ideally re-organise the structure giving more responsibility to GPs and Pharmacists to take pressure off hospitals.

Fred Cryton

If you voted Sinn Fein in the GE, why did you do it?

Because you're a bit simple in the head and believe in Santa Claus and a magic money tree.

limnam

I see sheep wrote: »

Needs huge investment at every level.

Train more nurses, train more doctors.

And ideally re-organise the structure giving more responsibility to GPs and Pharmacists to take pressure off hospitals.

Stop having 3 people doing the same job...

PARlance

Snickers Man wrote: »

Fair point. And I meant to put in a question about environment. But I still think I covered the major ones of health, education and housing.

The problem is that the thread title/question and the poll options don't tie up.

You asked why did people vote SF and then ask people to vote on priorities. There's a space in between.

A lot of people voted
1. To change the status quo/have a 3rd party/not necessarily a protest vote.
2. Because they were impressed with the top candidates from SF.

I'm from a FG family. That has a lot to do with being from Mayo, where it is generally FF or FG, a lot more so than other constituencies. It's a 2 party constituency for the most part. FG still got 42% of the vote for instance.

A few in my family broke that tradition and voted SF because:
1. They were tired of just having FF/FG as an option;
2. They were impressed with the SF candidate (hard working, intelligent, no links to past); and
3. They were impressed with the front hitters from SF. O'Broin, Doherty, Mary Lou etc.

None of them voted without a good dose of concern and none of them really had health or housing as priorities. It wasn't a protest either. FG still got 2nd preference etc. They were skecpital about the SF manifesto, in fact, they didn't believe it (but they also know that all parties blow sh1te when they can) but they still voted as they think there are some very smart and capable candidates within SF.

There is a lot of arrogance in some comments about dud candidates and wrong assumptions about the people who voted SF. All parties have their share of duds. A large part of Sinn Fein's success came as a result of having very strong candidates leading the way on a national front and it wasn't just people on the dole voting for them.

jam_mac_jam

I see sheep wrote: »

Needs huge investment at every level.

Train more nurses, train more doctors.

And ideally re-organise the structure giving more responsibility to GPs and Pharmacists to take pressure off hospitals.

We don't have more money to throw at it. We invest huge amounts in the health service.

Ballso

I see sheep wrote: »

Needs huge investment at every level.

Train more nurses, train more doctors.

And ideally re-organise the structure giving more responsibility to GPs and Pharmacists to take pressure off hospitals.

Throw money at the problem. That's worked great so far. Why do we need SF, FF have all these policies already.

Fred Cryton

PARlance wrote: »

3. They were impressed with the front hitters from SF. O'Broin, Doherty, Mary Lou etc.

Why do otherwise reasonable people say this, it's clearly not true. It's a very Irish thing to assume those who shout the loudest are impressive or intelligent.



What's Doherty's qualifications to be finance minister? He wants to tax the banks that he would be the majority shareholder of....lol!


Lousie O' Reilly? Did she even go to university? Doubt it. And you want her in charge of a €20bn health budget? Give me strength

And did you consider justice? You really want SF/IRA in charge of justice, the courts and policing? Have we entered an alternative universe?

ratracer

I see sheep wrote: »

Needs huge investment at every level.

Train more nurses, train more doctors.

And ideally re-organise the structure giving more responsibility to GPs and Pharmacists to take pressure off hospitals.

I would agree with all that, but the Dept of Health has had mega-money thrown at it year on year, and it is still a sh1t-show, regardless of whom has been minister for health. We train plenty of nurses in this country, but none of them are prepared to accept the terms and conditions on offer, whether this is the rate of pay or the cost of living, so we import foreign nursing staff. This needs to be addressed.

We train plenty of doctors, but then allow them to run a private practice as well as getting paid for a public service in the same hospital. I think private patients should not be allowed to be seen in a public hospital, as a private patient. This two-tier system is crazy. Public hospitals should not have private beds.

Fully agree GP's need more access to scanning and diagnostic equipment, this would reduce pressure on A&E.

mada999

Xterminator wrote: »

Housing & health, and social inequality.

yup dont forget - "wastage of tax payers money on poorly specced Infrastructure projects"

Scoundrel

joe40 wrote: »

Public horse whipping of Eoghan Harris is a perfectly reasonable suggestion:)

I think it could unite the country in these uncertain times

Ballso

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

We don't have more money to throw at it. We invest huge amounts in the health service.

But we'll tax de rich.

Doesn't matter that we've the sixth highest per capita spend on health on earth, we'll spend more! Where will we get the money? From the productive bits of the economy of course, sure we don't need those