If you voted Sinn Fein in the GE, why did you do it?

SusieBlue

johnmcdnl wrote: »

A single person earning 50-60k can save 1k per month without going crazy. If you do that for 3-4 years that's in the region of 40k.
For a couple both on decent money, that could be 80k saved since the last general election.

If your a couple earning lower wages (25k let's say), its still 40k savings between you.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/spending-money-diary-ireland-14-4936400-Dec2019/

Yes this guy is commuting from Kildare, but maybe that's the trade off some people make to save. Many don't want to make tradeoffs like that. But it's hard to have it both ways. He's also got cheap rent but paying a heap of money on train tickets and car repayments and petrol. you could live closer to work with higher rents and ride a bicycle instead if you'd rather. But yes maybe you do need to make a sacrifice or choice on some things.

Obviously if you have childcare costs this mightn't be the case, but there's certainly a lot of people who can afford if they work hard, and out in the effort just like the guy you replied to did.
Financial discipline, and the right attitude and the a little bit of luck that things don't go pear shaped goes a long way.

For some this might not be possible and I accept that, but there's lots of people who it is true for, especially if your earning over the average wage.

A couple each earning 25k will come out with €1,800ish per month each after tax, so a total of €3600.
Take out 2k for rent, they're left with €1600 for the month.
Out of that, they have to pay for their food, electricity, broadband, car insurance/petrol/commuting costs, health insurance, childcare, phone bills, and maybe pay off a bit towards a loan or credit card.
Oh, and save €500 each a month too.

This isn't even taking things like a trip to the doctors, illness, needing a new winter coat/boots, general savings or "luxuries" such as having Sky or Netflix or maybe getting the odd takeaway pizza.

And you're saying its doable if people make sacrifices :rolleyes:
People could probably just about manage to make do if they didn't have to try to save for the mortgage as well as all those things, that's what the problem is.

I used 25k as the example because a lot of those earning 50k are single income households, due to one parent staying home to cover childcare.
So whether its 2 people earning 25k or 1 earning 50k and supporting a family, it is by no means easy or everyone would be doing it.

Ballso

SusieBlue wrote: »

A couple each earning 25k will come out with €1,800ish per month each after tax, so a total of €3600.
Take out 2k for rent, they're left with €1600 for the month.
Out of that, they have to pay for their food, electricity, broadband, car insurance/petrol/commuting costs, health insurance, childcare, phone bills, and maybe pay off a bit towards a loan or credit card.
Oh, and save €500 each a month too.

This isn't even taking things like a trip to the doctors, illness, needing a new winter coat/boots, general savings or "luxuries" such as having Sky or Netflix or maybe getting the odd takeaway pizza.

And you're saying its doable if people make sacrifices :rolleyes:
People could probably just about manage to make do if they didn't have to try to save for the mortgage as well as all those things, that's what the problem is.

I used 25k as the example because a lot of those earning 50k are single income households, due to one parent staying home to cover childcare.
So whether its 2 people earning 25k or 1 earning 50k and supporting a family, it is by no means easy or everyone would be doing it.

So you want to reorder the economy so someone earning 25k (!) can buy a house?!

Really? This is fantasy economics

PARlance

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Why do otherwise reasonable people say this, it's clearly not true. It's a very Irish thing to assume those who shout the loudest are impressive or intelligent.



What's Doherty's qualifications to be finance minister? He wants to tax the banks that he would be the majority shareholder of....lol!


Lousie O' Reilly? Did she even go to university? Doubt it. And you want her in charge of a €20bn health budget? Give me strength

And did you consider justice? You really want SF/IRA in charge of justice, the courts and policing? Have we entered an alternative universe?

Well, I voted FG so I'm not sure if those questions are directed at me.

I said they were impressed with the main SF candidates. They don't all shout the loudest and while it wouldn't sway me, it is a factor.

You're talking about intelligence yet you don't seem to grasp that voting is also about popularity, not just qualifications. If people were impressed by Eoin O'Broin and liked him, then that would and did influence them on voting for a SF candidate.

And then you're throwing mud at SF candidates for a lack of experience. That's just opening yourself up to a very easy come back. As a FG voter, here's this: Simon Harris dropped out of DIT, having studied journalism and French, yet he was handed the Minister for Health role at 29.

I see sheep

ratracer wrote: »

I would agree with all that, but the Dept of Health has had mega-money thrown at it year on year, and it is still a sh1t-show, regardless of whom has been minister for health. We train plenty of nurses in this country, but none of them are prepared to accept the terms and conditions on offer, whether this is the rate of pay or the cost of living, so we import foreign nursing staff. This needs to be addressed.

We train plenty of doctors, but then allow them to run a private practice as well as getting paid for a public service in the same hospital. I think private patients should not be allowed to be seen in a public hospital, as a private patient. This two-tier system is crazy. Public hospitals should not have private beds.

Fully agree GP's need more access to scanning and diagnostic equipment, this would reduce pressure on A&E.

It won't be easy but FF/FG have failed.

The way I see it there is absolutely nothing to lose letting SF have a go at making it better. (This applies to housing too)

If they also fail they will have done no worse than FF/FG.

BASHIR

Ballso wrote: »

So you want to reorder the economy so someone earning 25k (!) can buy a house?!

Really? This is fantasy economics

Read what you quoted please

johnmcdnl

BASHIR wrote: »

Can I ask what sacrifices you are suggesting? Not having a go, just trying to gauge what you see as acceptable.

There's People who use the number of average rent being 2k a month being the reason they can't save. A room in a house share can be had for 1k or so. Of course I'd rather privacy, but this is where we are today in 2020. That'll add up to s bit to help get the deposit ready.
Consider living in the commuter belt for some time because yes it is cheaper just to help save up. yes longer commutes but again it's s trade off that I'd rather make in my 20s than enter my 30s with no savings because I wanted to live in the city centre.

Drive an older car rather than a newer model that has money payments on it.
Heck, even consider ditching the car and cycling. Take a car rental for the couple of weekends you may want to go down the country.

Cut down on cigarettes, beer, heck even coffee.
Bringing lunch to work instead of 5euro for lunch every day is a savings of 1k per year.

There's a lot of small savings that add up when you look at your monthly spend but I really don't think everyone does this.


I'm not trying to have a go at people earning lower wages and are already doing all of the above. I know that Dublin is completely out of reach for someone earning minimum wages or the likes. Absolutely I understand.

I'm more so annoyed at listening to some people who I know earn reasonable money complain about not being able to afford anything when it comes to a mortgage, but I can see how their lifestyle choices do add up considerably each month. Again, I'm pointing out that my comments came in response to someone earning over the average wage, not in respond to those earning at or below the median.


Don't get me wrong on this, absolutely I'd love to see prices come down and we'll see how the next government get on with this, and regardless go who it is let's hope they manage it without it having knock on effects.
But the reality is that this housing cost issue has been a thing for quite some time. If you adapted and adjusted you can save money. Claiming it is impossible is just flat out wrong.

**Again, all this applies to those earning salaries over the average but claim it is impossible to save anything.

James Brown

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

And only a few weeks ago Ireland wa shown to have the most fair society.

That means the people who earn the most pay the most and it gets distributed to the people who don't have a lot.

This is all on record.

One of the most fairest societies in the world.

If you've the money, you can make more and if you lose it, the tax payer will sort you.

Ballso

I see sheep wrote: »

It won't be easy but FF/FG have failed.

The way I see it there is absolutely nothing to lose letting SF have a go at making it better. (This applies to housing too)

If they also fail they will have done no worse than FF/FG.

You mean YOU have nothing to lose.

The rest of us could lose the FDI and jobs which keep the state afloat.

baldbear

_Brian wrote: »

The problem is families who have been intentionally generationally unemployed want the state to provide them with the same standard of living as families who over the generations have worked hard and ensured their children have been educated well and strive to better themselves.

That’s communist thinking where everyone should have the same no matter what they do.

The solution to “Social inequality” is get your of your arse and get doing something. Make sure your kids go to school, make sure they get a trade or a skill or go to college. Make sure they have pet time jobs to teach them that workers get paid and getting kid is how you better yourself.
Showing them that a life on SW popping out sprigs to a raft of different fathers is just dooming them to lower standards of living.

Then you have people with kids who did get off there holes and got educated, worked part time time to put themselves through college and are now slaving away for nothing. Why? You work and get nothing. Pay 1500€ a month for a 2 bed apartment whilst trying to save for your own house. This is why people have turned to SF. It used to be just Dublin but now it's nationwide.

Fg haven't helped these workers & those votes are now gone.
Some areas in Dublin and the rest of the country have been abandoned by the ex main parties.

Maybe our kids would be better off never working. Claim off the dole have kids get your social house get your medical card. Never have to worry about paying a mortgage and continue the cycle.

Sf have some excellent politicians. Pearse Doherty, Eoin O'Broin. Then you have Dessie Ellis , & Martin Ferris. The old gaurd.

limnam

Ballso wrote: »

So you want to reorder the economy so someone earning 25k (!) can buy a house?!

Really? This is fantasy economics

The economy doesn't need to be "reordered" to provide affordable housing.


If we take the median wage as 30k


A couple on it can get aprox 200k mortgage assuming no kids etc



The average house price is hovering around 380k.


Doesn't add up

BASHIR

And Yes I do believe people in dublin earning 50K gross whether as a couple or as a single earner should be able to afford a modest home.

fergus1001

Snickers Man wrote: »

Or specifically, what policies would you like a Sinn Fein led government to focus on, if you voted for them in this election?

I didn't vote for them at all, and won't. But I fully accept that many people might have voted for a change because they were just brassed off with the complacency of the "FG stepped out, FF stepped in again" Lanigan's Ball like binary choice we have had for 90 years. We're a proper multi choice democracy, not like the Brits and Yanks with their dopey bipolar systems.

Is availability of housing your key concern for a new government? Or is it the environment/climate change? Do you want a more socialist society with high taxes and equitable public services? No private health care? State schools only?

Or is "Making Ireland United Again" your main concern?

Please take the poll and let us know.

you left out the "the other two made a balls of it when they were in power so might as well give someone else a go at ****ing it up" option

your poll is clearly geared to give you an answer you can give out about

if FF FG done what they said they were going to do instead of pushing it out all the time the status quo would have stuck

people like me work and earn what should be a decent wage but yet cant afford a home, the system is fcuked

El Tarangu

storker wrote: »

Easy solutions like "hands off and leave it all to the market"?

I don't think that FG have ever said that; all they did while in government was interfere with the workings of the (property) market, normally with counter-productive results.

SusieBlue

Ballso wrote: »

So you want to reorder the economy so someone earning 25k (!) can buy a house?!

Really? This is fantasy economics

I want the person earning 25k to be able to own a home within a reasonable distance of decent employment opportunities (note: not necessarily a big city), or to be able to rent for a fair price with security of tenancy.
I don't think that this is an unreasonably high standard of living to aspire to in 2020.

You do realise that the barista in Starbucks and the waitress serving you in the restaurant (aka low paid workers) need somewhere to live too, right?
And that it isn't acceptable to expect them to travel two hours each way on a bus every morning just for the pleasure of earning a minimum wage?

Our cities would collapse without employess like these. The cleaners, the waiters, the bar staff, the retail workers.
You are so arrogant to imply that their needs don't matter just because they are on a lower income.

ratracer

I see sheep wrote: »

It won't be easy but FF/FG have failed.

The way I see it there is absolutely nothing to lose letting SF have a go at making it better. (This applies to housing too)

If they also fail they will have done no worse than FF/FG.

I agree. I abhor the type of SF/IRA crap that waterford gob****e came out with, and already Eoin O'Broin has lost a little bit of my respect for defending him and using the Danny Healy Rae excuse of 'ah we were tired'

But I'm an ordinary PAYE worker just trying to get by and since 2007 all the gov's and opposition's have failed us. FF/FG have been called out on it, Labour/Greens have been decimated by it, PD's are no more because of it, but all of these were in power and got their deserved rewards.

I will give SF a pretty blank slate for now, as they have never had to make hard policy decisions in this country (unlike up north). They're coming in at a time when the worst of the recovery work is done, lets see if they can carry it on. As a worker, I certainly hope so, but I don't want a budget promising me a tax cut to give me €5 a week extra for a year to then being crippled with new taxes further down the line if/ when it goes tits up again.

Ballso

SusieBlue wrote: »

I want the person earning 25k to be able to own a home within a reasonable distance of decent employment opportunities (note: not necessarily a big city), or to be able to rent for a fair price with security of tenancy.
I don't think that this is an unreasonably high standard of living to aspire to in 2020.

You do realise that the barista in Starbucks and the waitress serving you in the restaurant (aka low paid workers) need somewhere to live too, right?
And that it isn't acceptable to expect them to travel two hours each way on a bus every morning just for the pleasure of earning a minimum wage?

Our cities would collapse without employess like these. The cleaners, the waiters, the bar staff, the retail workers.
You are so arrogant to imply that their needs don't matter just because they are on a lower income.

Could you point to another Western European country where it is possible for a waitress to buy a house beside their job then?

I seem to have missed this economic miracle.

maccored

wheres the '**** off and mind your own business' option?

mada999

Deleted User wrote: »

I've always been bemused by using populism as a derogatory term. Is democracy not essentially popularity contest? The person who is most popular with, you know, the most votes gets in?

its like there wasn't any populism by FG in 2011 or was it just forgotten about ?

Scoundrel

The let them eat cake attitude on this thread perfectly explains SFs rise and the fall of the traditional parties.

Ballso

Scoundrel wrote: »

The let them eat cake attitude on this thread perfectly explains SFs rise and the fall of the traditional parties.

Wait we're about to hear how SF are going to make it possible for waitresses to buy houses via some economic miracle which is definitely grounded in reality

Kivaro

_Brian wrote: »

The problem is families who have been intentionally generationally unemployed want the state to provide them with the same standard of living as families who over the generations have worked hard and ensured their children have been educated well and strive to better themselves.

That’s communist thinking where everyone should have the same no matter what they do.

The solution to “Social inequality” is get your of your arse and get doing something. Make sure your kids go to school, make sure they get a trade or a skill or go to college. Make sure they have pet time jobs to teach them that workers get paid and getting kid is how you better yourself.
Showing them that a life on SW popping out sprigs to a raft of different fathers is just dooming them to lower standards of living.

The party that makes a statement like above would top the polls quite easily and probably have a majority of seats in government.
Unfortunately, there is no such political party at the moment ........... but out of the ashes of the FFG election disaster, some centre-leaning movement may evolve.

I see sheep

Ballso wrote: »

Wait we're about to hear how SF are going to make it possible for waitresses to buy houses via some economic miracle which is definitely grounded in reality

Bizarre that you've been programmed to think only rich people should get to own a house.

BASHIR

Ballso wrote: »

Wait we're about to hear how SF are going to make it possible for waitresses to buy houses via some economic miracle which is definitely grounded in reality

What is wrong with two waitresses wanting to buy a house?

boetstark

_Brian wrote: »

“Social inequality”

That’s some load of shiit there.
It’s been proven over and over that there are educational amd employment opportunities in Ireland, created under right leaning governments.

People who can be bothered to get themselves educated can do so, then there are plenty of opportunities for employment.

By Social inequality people usually mean that the “won’t work” brigade are fed up not having as many nice things as people who’ve made an effort and gone out and work for their stuff.

Thank you so much. Common sense spoken at last

PARlance

Scoundrel wrote: »

The let them eat cake attitude on this thread perfectly explains SFs rise and the fall of the traditional parties.

Well, there is a bit of "they all should be able to afford a bakery" on the thread as well.

SusieBlue

Ballso wrote: »

Could you point to another Western European country where it is possible for a waitress to buy a house beside their job then?

I seem to have missed this economic miracle.

You seem to also have missed the point of my entire post. But colour me stunned that you deliberately misinterpreted it.

I'm not suggesting the waitress be able to buy a 4 bed semi d next to Dundrum shopping center.

I'm suggesting that there should be privisions in place to ensure that the waitress isn't a) Spending 60% of her income on rent or b) That she isn't commuting two hours each way to work every day.
The cities cannot function without these workers and they need to be looked after too. Housing shouldn't just be for rich people.

The obvious answer to this is to invest into rural towns, try to attract multinationals and encourage businesses to open because those are the areas where there is a) space/land to actually build more housing and b) slightly cheaper rental options.
The cities would be under less pressure and those living rurally would have a better quality of life than they would paying 2k a month in rent, or doing long commutes.
Long term tenency contractss of 30/40 should also be available to those who want them, to reduce the number looking to buy and to give security to those who are happy to rent.

Affordable housing for ALL citizens is not fantasy economics, with the high taxes we pay the very least we should expect is to be able to buy or rent for a fair price with security of tenancy.

Ush1

limnam wrote: »

The economy doesn't need to be "reordered" to provide affordable housing.


If we take the median wage as 30k


A couple on it can get aprox 200k mortgage assuming no kids etc



The average house price is hovering around 380k.


Doesn't add up

Why did you compare median wage to average house price?

James Brown

Ballso wrote: »

Wait we're about to hear how SF are going to make it possible for waitresses to buy houses via some economic miracle which is definitely grounded in reality

Classic FG. Every worker should be able to in the least try to buy their own home, without it being fantasy or the working class getting above their station.
It's also the FG equivalent of let them eat cake, 'Can't afford rent? Give them a 25 year leased luxury apartment', which is a win win for everyone but the tax payer.
Good riddance FG.

Idbatterim

_Brian wrote: »

“Social inequality”

That’s some load of shiit there.
It’s been proven over and over that there are educational amd employment opportunities in Ireland, created under right leaning governments.

People who can be bothered to get themselves educated can do so, then there are plenty of opportunities for employment.

By Social inequality people usually mean that the “won’t work” brigade are fed up not having as many nice things as people who’ve made an effort and gone out and work for their stuff.

I voted for them (SF). Previous FG voter, varadkar lied about rewarding work , they reward those currently on the housing list, with luxury dundrum apartments, meanwhile many working people I know in that area are fcuked! paying mad rents and a marginal rate income tax from a low income, that is a scandal. the biggest cost here, by a mile, is housing, what can I do, if FG want rip off housing? Its not like I think oh great, vote SF all my problems will be solved. But FG have just taken the absolute piss with inaction. Concerned only with optics. If they had just focused on progress, rather than waffle, theyd have walked back into government. also far too concerned with image and the media! They dont even have the backbone to stand up for themselves, because they think people will see them as heartless etc (rte in particular) well look at the fingers the public gave to the media, who hated on SF, it actually drove more votes to them! ! Varadkar you fraud, not one FCUKING career welfareist, every has, or ever will vote for you. Yet as the post I have quoted says, you bend over backwards for these career welfares, that are always the victim, never to blame! But you are that spineless, that you will sell out the early risers that voted you in! Some in my area, living in converted garages! while you pay E1800 a month for a one bed in that new apartment complex in dundrum , which consists of only social houses and a tenant I know, who got one, pays E50 a fcuking week! No Lpt, no E1500 minimum management fee a year to pay! Why not whack up the marginal tax rate to 90% ?! take it all!

the infrastructure in dublin is a disgrace, not money for that seemingly, but hundreds of millions extra every year for welfare, on an already obscene welfare state, when other areas are starved of funding! and think of this for a minute, you increase welfare by a modest 500,000,000 a year, thats 5,000,000,000 over a decade!!!

No leadership, no spine!

Ballso

I see sheep wrote: »

Bizarre that you've been programmed to think only rich people should get to own a house.

Bizarre that you've been programmed to think poor people should be able to buy houses. Where does this happen? Took me twenty years to be in a position to buy a house, I should've forgone putting myself through college and working my way up from the bottom of my industry and just waited for the upcoming SF economic miracle sure.

Anyway this will all be sorted in short order once SF go into government, South Dublin will be rammed with property owning waitresses