Fritz!box examples on how to get good WiFi coverage

Marlow

So,

I moved to a house ... (it's a bit more than a house) from 1815 recently. Getting WiFi signal from one room to another is a total no go. Fortunately each room is wired with cat5e sockets to a central patch panel.

I've had Fritz!Box routers for years .. even before they were available in Ireland. Even bought some from Marx Computers, when they were around.

Now, that a lot of the providers actually are offering these routers and availability is more common, they're not that difficult to come by anymore.

Also, as of the late version 6 firmwares, mesh was introduced. With 7.01 it even became possible to share phonelines across the mesh.

So with this place, I went a bit mad last weekend. This is what my mesh page looks like:


Full size image here: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49523242597_94ab8c8708_h.jpg

I used 8 Fritz!Box routers in total (3 x 7590, 1 x 7582, 2x 7530, 1 x 7490, 1 x 7560) and 2 Fritz!Repeater 3000 .. something that should be available in Ireland soon.

All routers are connected via cat5e in each room. Some rooms have analogue phones, a couple DECT phones (Fritz!Fon and some third party), 2 mobile phones using the Fritz!Fon App and finally a DECT doorbell, that rings all extensions, when somebody is at the door and acts as intercom.

There is also a Fermax intercom system in this place, that is connected to the gate. This system has a phone interface, so I'm going to try and tie that also in, so that it can be used with the phones in the house.

All routers are at current firmware (7.12/7.13/7.14). I can now literally move from one room to another without loss of connectivity.

Unfortunately only VDSL is available where I live (70M/20M) .. I had SIRO at Gbit/s speed before .. but I do have near to no loss in speed from anywhere in the house. Coverage from one router would have been impossible here.

I figured, I'd share this and if there are questions .. fire away.

Doorbell

So for the doorbell, I was looking into a cheap and cheerful solution initially. I bought this for my previous home, where there was no cat6 or phone cable from the house to the gate, so we used it there connected to a router in the front window.

For about 50 GBP you can get this: https://www.responseelectronics.com/shop/door-bells-and-intercoms/door-intercom-systems/era-michime-wireless-dect-telephone-and-doorbellintercom-system-246b0e31/ ... can also be found on Amazon. The specific model I use is the ERA miChime CL3622B.

The doorbell works as an intercom and rings all extensions/phones. You can also integrate a door/gate opener, so you can remotely buzz people in. You can either feed it with 12V or stick some batteries in it, that last about 6 months or more (depending on use). It connects via DECT, so no wires needed there.

The DECT handset, while not being the most fancy model, has nice big buttons. Handy for elderly people. It works perfectly with the Fritz!Box .. even caller-ID works.

/M

mcbert

Hi, I'm curious about this, thanks.

How seamless is the mesh? Like if you download a large file while walking through rooms, jumping between several access points, it there any interruption to the connection?

Also wondering about your walls and signal and how the speed drops through them? You got a box in each room?

Thanks.

Marlow

mcbert wrote: »

How seamless is the mesh? Like if you download a large file while walking through rooms, jumping between several access points, it there any interruption to the connection?

I'm not typically wandering from one room to another with a laptop while doing downloads, but where it will be interesting is when I move from one room to another using the Fritz!Fon app on the phone.

I've not seen any drops so far, as every router has the same SSID and my IP address does not change across the routers. But it's certainly something to test to make sure.

mcbert wrote: »

Also wondering about your walls and signal and how the speed drops through them? You got a box in each room?

The walls are extremely thick. I get the occasional signal from a router in the next room, but it's pretty bad. So yes, I simply placed a box in every room that mattered.

It's the only way, if you want to achieve decent speeds and reliable connection.

/M

MBSnr

^^^
I've 4 Fritzbox devices in a mesh. I have found some older devices (which don't support the newer 802.11kv standards) don't always switch to the nearest AP as quickly as I'd expect, leading to slow internet and frustration on those devices, or if they do switch they don't seem to work unless you turn off and on wifi again.

Marlow - You ever have issues removing a 7530 Fritzbox from the mesh and trying to put it back in? In both instances I've done it, the box will not go back into the mesh (by pressing the WPS buttons) and I've had to factory reset it and start over. Kinda annoying.

Also I did apply the v7.13 update to the 7530s and one of them asked me to register it with myFritz again. It also wasn't appearing correctly as a mesh device - hence the reason to remove and try and add it again. Even now on myfritz.net/devices it appears as a non mesh device for some reason... (Not that it matters).

Other than that, the Fritzbox is by far the best consumer router/modem I've used.

Marlow

MBSnr wrote: »

Marlow - You ever have issues removing a 7530 Fritzbox from the mesh and trying to put it back in? In both instances I've done it, the box will not go back into the mesh (by pressing the WPS buttons) and I've had to factory reset it and start over. Kinda annoying.

Yes .. it was really painful with earlier versions (7.01/7.02), but they seem to have fixed a lot of that.

/M

MBSnr

Marlow wrote: »

Yes .. it was really painful with earlier versions (7.01/7.02), but they seem to have fixed a lot of that.

/M

This is v7.13 but the box is an earlier issue 7530 from what I can gather. Having said that, I think it did it on another box with v7.12... Can't recall.

Marlow

Added info on the doorbell.

/M

Marlow

mcbert wrote: »

How seamless is the mesh? Like if you download a large file while walking through rooms, jumping between several access points, it there any interruption to the connection?

According to AVM, the roaming should be seemless. I was talking to one of their techs 2 days ago and you should literally be able to be on a facetime or phonecall on the avm fritz!fon app while roaming from router to router without drop.

/M

65535

Do you have to cable them all back to the 'main' Fritz Box or can you just daisy chain them one after another ??

Marlow

65535 wrote: »

Do you have to cable them all back to the 'main' Fritz Box or can you just daisy chain them one after another ??

Doesn't really matter.

In my case, I have my main router in the place where the patch panel is. So that works out nicely.

But the 4 lan ports on a Fritz!Box act like a switch. So there is no problem daisy chaining them.

You can also mesh them using wireless .. I would recommend using the 5 GHz wireless for that, if you do, as there is more bandwidth. But you would need to make sure there's a good signal between the two that you connect to each other. Wireless mesh does not work in my place ... the walls are just too thick.

In 2 places, I did not have network ports, so I used powerline for those two to tie them back. It's not optimal, but it does the trick.

/M

Gooey Looey

It's not really mesh though if you're connecting them using Ethernet, it's just APs and a gateway router switch. I have Mikrotik Capsman in my home, a CRS router, 2x dual band wAPs and an RB951 (2.4ghz only, added to improve coverage to a thermostat in the back utility that kept dropping). This looks a very decent option, I'm always interested, have configured some big Ubiquiti Unifi and Mikrotik setups for work over the years

smuggler.ie

Gooey Looey wrote: »

It's not really mesh though if you're connecting them using Ethernet, it's just APs and a gateway router switch.

Fair observation...

65535

Gooey Looey wrote: »

It's not really mesh though if you're connecting them using Ethernet, it's just APs and a gateway router switch. I have Mikrotik Capsman in my home, a CRS router, 2x dual band wAPs and an RB951 (2.4ghz only, added to improve coverage to a thermostat in the back utility that kept dropping). This looks a very decent option, I'm always interested, have configured some big Ubiquiti Unifi and Mikrotik setups for work over the years

Neither here nor there, the Mikrotik is complex because it can do a lot.
The Fritz is more or less plug and play but it works.

Marlow

Gooey Looey wrote: »

It's not really mesh though if you're connecting them using Ethernet

You are not correct there, because:
- the mesh procotol and routing is still there. It is just send over the cabled network for the routers to interact, thus creating more reliability and needing less router density.
- all SSIDs are the same and sync'd
- roaming between routers is still seamless unless you have a coverage gap.

If you're doing mesh via wireless, you'll need a lot bigger density between the routers and you will be using up some of the bandwidth on either your 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz spectrum for this.

Saying that mesh via ethernet is not really mesh is like saying, that the 2.4 GHz portion of your mesh network is not really mesh, because you have your routers interacting on 5 GHz. There is a lot more to it, I'm afraid.

I have a lot of Mikrotik gear myself, also. For example the switch that I'm using in the house is the CRS328-24P-4S+ PoE switch. That way, I can PoE power the Unifi phones.

As for choosing the Fritz!Box solution over lets say CapsMAN or the Ubiquity variant ... well, neither of them has the phone integration in the mesh. Show me one router from Mikrotik or Ubiquity, that has an in-build ATA or DECT basestation. And gives you an Android app to use that telephony, too.

/M

mcbert

Im in an average enough semi-d with sky broadband. Really bad wifi from the sky router. I decided to get two Fritzbox 7530, and mesh them, and replace the sky router completely, letting one fritzbox handle the VDSL line too.

I'm quite impressed with these boxes! I only now realise how bad the sky router was - I had kinda got used to it.

Im still limited to VDSL's max speed but the wifi is now rock solid, and I get the full line speed (80Mb/s ish) throughout the house. The two boxes are meshing over 5Ghz. I hope to move to Siro FTTH soon but with an extra box or two in the mesh throughout the house I expect/hope a few hundred Mb/s everywhere... although it remains to be seen if or what boxes I'll want to wire together instead of meshing over 5Ghz.

Marlow

65535 wrote: »

Neither here nor there, the Mikrotik is complex because it can do a lot.
The Fritz is more or less plug and play but it works.

The Fritz!Box can also do a lot. And a lot of what the Mikrotik unit can't.

The Mikrotik units are geared for enterprise users. They were designed to compete with higher end Cisco units, with features like MPLS, various VPN protocols and a lot of other stuff.

The AVM Fritz!Box is designed for consumers. It now even has Smart Home stuff build in.

I actually added a few bits of that in the last few days.


Fritz!DECT 301 Thermostat. I got a few of those to test and they actually boltet straight to my radiators. Didn't even need the adapter, they supplied.

You control it from the web interface, a Fritz!Fon DECT phone or the MyFritz! App. You can also pre-program a time schedule for the individual rooms.

Oh ... and I also got 2 full spectrum color DECT/ULE smart bulbs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV84y8AHklU

Again .. You control them from the web interface, a Fritz!Fon DECT phone or the MyFritz! App. But there is a very limited supply for these at the moment. They only are available with E27 Edison Screw-in fitting and from one manufacturer. You also need the 7.19 BETA firmware to actually be able to manage them.

I've set them to turn on at sunset and turn off at sunrise. The Fritz!Box knows based on the GPS coordinates you enter in it.

The one great thing about the whole Smart Home stuff in AVMs routers is, that it's all controlled on your router, in your home. No cloud account needed. They refused to go that way for security reasons.

Philips Hue bulbs can also be managed offline, but a lot of the other manufacturer will require an online/cloud account and you have to manage them through that.

/M

editorsean

My favourite Fritz Box feature by far is the DECT capability:

With Digiweb, Goldfish, etc. VoIP providers, if a call comes in while someone is on the phone, it will ring the other phones, including any mobiles linked with the Fritz App. Similarly one can pick up another phone to dial out.

As the Fritz Box is the DECT base, the handsets can be placed anywhere there is a power socket. No need to run a phone line to a master DECT base.

Phone book, last call, etc. numbers dial out instantly. As soon as I press the "Call" button with a landline number, I hear the other end ringing, much like an office ISDN phone.

The Fritz Box web interface shows the call log history of incoming and outgoing numbers, the duration, any issues (e.g. lost packets, jitter/burst timings, etc) and so on. It also provides direct phone book access, handy for quickly looking up a number, adding entries, etc.

The Fritz DECT phones can also control smart hone products as Marlow already mentioned.

Marlow

editorsean wrote: »

Phone book, last call, etc. numbers dial out instantly. As soon as I press the "Call" button with a landline number, I hear the other end ringing, much like an office ISDN phone.

And with mesh, the master phonebook can be syncronised to all slave boxes.

I actually have both a bunch of VoIP accounts and an ISDN line connected to my master for phone calls. And the VDSL standalone on top of that.

Just be aware, that you need the right splitter cable for ISDN. As of the 7590, the standard splitter cable only has analogue cabling. Plug an earlier cable from a 7490 or 7390 in and it all works .. no problem.

Limit is 6 handsets and 3 calls at the same time though on DECT.

Oh .. and if the DECT range isn't enough ... old 7390s can be picked up for 30-40 EUR and have the capability of acting as a DECT Repeater. They are just not compatible if you also have Smart Home stuff on there. Then you need the Fritz!DECT 100 Repeater for that to work. But there is only 3 of the old model routers, that are capable of DECT repeating. The 7390 is the easiest to pick up.

/M

Mr Crispy

They've been doing the cabling in my area for the past couple of weeks, so I'm hoping to be able to sign up to Digiweb in the next few months. So this is great info, thanks Marlow - very reassuring!

If I wanted to add more ethernet ports to the network, is there a recommended switch I could use, or am I just better off adding another Fritz router?

Marlow

Darch Nemesis wrote: »

If I wanted to add more ethernet ports to the network, is there a recommended switch I could use

Any decent switch will do.

Another Fritz!Box is only needed, if you want to extend your wireless reach or want to connect more than 12 Smart Home devices.

/M

Mr Crispy

Marlow wrote: »

Any decent switch will do.

Another Fritz!Box is only needed, if you want to extend your wireless reach or want to connect more than 12 Smart Home devices.

/M

Thanks, appreciate it!

Marlow

So .. I've pretty much got blanket Wifi and DECT coverage across the entire house ....


High res picture: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49597542658_b9a4cd6963_3k.jpg

That's 12 Mesh routers: 9 of those via cable, one via wifi and 2 via powerline, where no cabled option was possible and wifi mesh would have been an utter no go.

I also have 6 DECT repeaters and 5 DECT handsets, which is the absolute maximum repeaters, but I can add one more DECT phone to said router.

2 of the DECT repeaters are old 7390 routers, on which I have disabled the WiFi. The other 4 are DECT Repeater 100 and they report the temperature in the area, where they are installed also. Very handy for regulating the thermostats, when I have them all replaced.

As the Smart Home gear does not agree to co-exist with DECT repeaters, I've designated one router for DECT telephony. No Smart Home devices are connected here.

I also have 2 DECT doorbells. And they would have counted as DECT handsets, too. But as a doorbell usually doesn't roam the house, I've basically paired them with the nearest router to them. That way I saved 2 slots on the main DECT router for phones.

Only the front doorbell is reported in the chart, because DECT phone devices don't get reported across the mesh. Only the smart home ones get shared.

The limit of Smart Home devices per router is 12. There are 37 radiators in my place alone. I've 3 so far .. it'll be a while until i can afford to replace them all, but the fact, that I didn't go shy on the amount of routers, I now have plenty of capacity for that sort of stuff.

Additionally, I've stuck a USB 4G stick with a 4G SIM and external antennas in the main router, in case my VDSL fails. On VDSL, that'll fall over automatically. With other connections, like FTTH or Cable, you will have to swap manually. But at least it's there.

And the 2 smart light bulbs have indeed switched off at sunrise and came back online just as it got dark. So there'll be another few of those going in at the front door and the back door.

/M

user1842

Note the Fritz!Repeater 3000 and Sonos speakers do not play well together (Sonos speakers which are grouped). Sonos packets appear not to transfer through the Fritz!Repeater 3000. It appears to be an know issue. Hopefully they will correct it in the next release of the firmware.

Marlow

user1842 wrote: »

Note the Fritz!Repeater 3000 and Sonos speakers do not play well together (Sonos speakers which are grouped). Sonos packets appear not to transfer through the Fritz!Repeater 3000. It appears to be an know issue. Hopefully they will correct it in the next release of the firmware.

Is that using mesh or not ? Or a general problem?

The Fritz!Repeater is a fairly new product, so there could be a problem alright. Sonos uses multicast and that is probably what causes the problem.

/M

user1842

Marlow wrote: »

Is that using mesh or not ? Or a general problem?

The Fritz!Repeater is a fairly new product, so there could be a problem alright. Sonos uses multicast and that is probably what causes the problem.

/M

Just when using mesh. The repeater was connected wirelessly to a Fritz!box 7581 and I could not group the Sonos speaker that was connected via the repeater. The other two speakers grouped fine.

Still Fritz!boxes are excellent and I hear that the next firmware update will be multi lingual. Could never understand why they had a German only version. Even ISPs in Germany have English options on their routers.

Also great setup

Mr Crispy

Can I ask how easy is it to configure the Fritz!Box in terms of QoS/prioritising applications?

Darch Nemesis

Darch Nemesis wrote: »

Can I ask how easy is it to configure the Fritz!Box in terms of QoS/prioritising applications?

I'm going to have to do this, because default settings are shocking.

Marlow

user1842 wrote: »

Just when using mesh. The repeater was connected wirelessly to a Fritz!box 7581 and I could not group the Sonos speaker that was connected via the repeater. The other two speakers grouped fine.

Did you do wireless mesh between the 7581 and the Repeater 3000 ?

There are specific issues with the 7581 and 7582, where they can only act as mesh slaves using cable, not wirelessly.

They can act as mesh master. But I figure, issues can also turn up here.

Here is the compatibility list: https://en.avm.de/nc/faqs/which-fritz-products-support-mesh/ (see that little 1 there at the 7581 and 7582).

The reason for this is, that those two routers have a completely different chipset from what AVM usually uses. They are the G.Fast compliant routers (well the 7582 is anyhow) and they were also the first routers to support baby jumbos on the WAN interface.

The chipset difference could be part of your issue.

/M

user1842

Marlow wrote: »

Did you do wireless mesh between the 7581 and the Repeater 3000 ?

There are specific issues with the 7581 and 7582, where they can only act as mesh slaves using cable, not wirelessly.

They can act as mesh master. But I figure, issues can also turn up here.

Here is the compatibility list: https://en.avm.de/nc/faqs/which-fritz-products-support-mesh/ (see that little 1 there at the 7581 and 7582).

The reason for this is, that those two routers have a completely different chipset from what AVM usually uses. They are the G.Fast compliant routers (well the 7582 is anyhow) and they were also the first routers to support baby jumbos on the WAN interface.

The chipset difference could be part of your issue.

/M

The repeater was connected to the 7581 automatically (using the WPS button) and appeared in the mesh settings page of the 7581 showing a wireless 5Ghz link to the 7581 with device connections to the repeater. So I assume the 7581 is acting as the mesh master.

Unfortunately the same issue also happened on the Fritz!box 7580. I got the 7581 recently as I could not cope with the German language firmware of the 7580.

You may have answered the other issue I now have with the 7581. It is very particular when connecting to my VDSL line, taking a long time to negotiate a connection and sometimes will only connect if I connect my old ISP router first. If it is sporting a different chip-set, maybe VDSL compatibility is not as good as their other models (its a German ISP im connecting too).

Thanks.

Marlow

I've recently expanded the whole smart home setup.

As I use the Fritz!Box for all the heating controls and the outside smart bulbs, but with limited type bulbs available there, I went with Philips Hue and Ikea Trådfri inside (both Zigbee) and will probably use some WiFi dimmer relays also.

So .. what to do, to tie it all together: I installed OpenHAB, which is an open source home automation software with lots and lots of bindings on an ODroid board. OpenHAB has a decent integration into the Fritz!Box and can also pull all sorts of statistics from it.

And today it hit me ... I can even plot the health of my VDSL line with that. Should it ever go bad, I'd least be able to track down, when it started.


Said and done.

/M

65535

Mr Crispy wrote: »

Can I ask how easy is it to configure the Fritz!Box in terms of QoS/prioritising applications?

Internet / Filters / Prioritization /

Should show Internet Telephony with priority


Is your bandwidth limited ?