FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Compared to say Northern Ireland where the SF/DUP government are hiding the statistics on nursing home deaths, I think that we are doing more than pretty OK.

Did I miss the whole thing? I thought the British still called the shots in the occupied territory? Do the DUP know SF are in charge? Is Boris cool with this? Is 'A nation once again' number one?

blanch152 wrote: »

Did you see the FF/FG document yet?

It must be turning your stomach.

No Blanch, sure what odds would it make? FF/FG can't turn my stomach much more. I suppose they could shock me by representing the interests of the public over their own, but that's fantasy really.
Will the Green's be bending over for a seat with the big boys or holding firm on behalf of the Irish people?
Two things will happen. Some party will sell out the Irish public and go in with FF/FG, who will feather their nests on the tax payers coin and blame Covid 19 for the austerity, made worse because of FF/FG greed. Or we might see another election and it's all to play for.

Be interesting when the champions of private business over public start back at the nurses for being too well paid and having too many holidays. What with HSE staff volunteering to help out private business homes and Goodman and O'Brien getting minted off the tax payer because of Fine Gael and Covid 19. Different set of ethnics I guess.

BonnieSituation

blanch152 wrote: »

Did you see the FF/FG document yet?

It must be turning your stomach.

The reunification unit might turn yours. :P

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0415/1130716-shared-island/

McMurphy

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The reunification unit might turn yours. :P

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0415/1130716-shared-island/

Green voter. He'd be all for that.

Whelo79

blanch152 wrote: »

Compared to say Northern Ireland where the SF/DUP government are hiding the statistics on nursing home deaths, I think that we are doing more than pretty OK.

So there is nothing to dispute in the article and you deflect with some nonsensical BS as usual. 'But, but, but, look over there. Don't look at me, look at them'.

BonnieSituation

McMurphy wrote: »

Green voter. He'd be all for that.

Blanch is a notorious partitionist around these parts. No chance he's be in favour of this.

blanch152

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The reunification unit might turn yours. :P

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0415/1130716-shared-island/

Aspirational dreamy stuff, to get the O'Cuiv wing on board. Doesn't bother me.

Would like more details on the carbon tax.

BonnieSituation

blanch152 wrote: »

Aspirational dreamy stuff, to get the O'Cuiv wing on board. Doesn't bother me.

Would like more details on the carbon tax.

Aspirations are where every act starts.

Fann Linn

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Aspirations are where every act starts.

'Waffle' or 'Utopian' according to two different commentators.

BonnieSituation

Fann Linn wrote: »

'Waffle' or 'Utopian' according to two different commentators.

Well ye have nothing to be worried about so.

satguy

This is how it went with the last party that went into cahoots with FG. ( Joan Burton was Toanistate,, and learer of LP )

Kenny : I think we should have water meters, and the rich pay the same as the poor.
Burton : ok, no prob.
Kenny : I'm about to take my pension soon, But I think the poor should have to wait til 68 years old.
Burton : ok, no prob.
Kenny: Maybe we should half the lone parents allowance, Bingo halls are packed, make them stay at home.
Burton: Yeah sure thing.
Kenny: I think we can force the unemployed to sign up for a public service card, and make them jump through hoops to get it.
Burton: Yeah Yeah, No prob.
Kenny: Would you Labour TD's mind leaving the room while we talk about Dinny.
Burton: Yeah Yeah, we'll just stand outside the door, call us when you want us back.

And all this with dumb dumb Kenny, just imagine what Leo will do to poor Micheál ...

Jinglejangle69

satguy wrote: »

This is how it went with the last party that went into cahoots with FG. ( Joan Burton was Toanistate,, and learer of LP )

Kenny : I think we should have water meters, and the rich pay the same as the poor.
Burton : ok, no prob.
Kenny : I'm about to take my pension soon, But I think the poor should have to wait til 68 years old.
Burton : ok, no prob.
Kenny: Maybe we should half the lone parents allowance, Bingo halls are packed, make them stay at home.
Burton: Yeah sure thing.
Kenny: I think we can force the unemployed to sign up for a public service card, and make them jump through hoops to get it.
Burton: Yeah Yeah, No prob.
Kenny: Would you Labour TD's mind leaving the room while we talk about Dinny.
Burton: Yeah Yeah, we'll just stand outside the door, call us when you want us back.

And all this with dumb dumb Kenny, just imagine what Leo will do to poor Micheál ...

Cool story.

We're all in stitches here

Did you think of it yourself?

Bass Reeves

satguy wrote: »

This is how it went with the last party that went into cahoots with FG. ( Joan Burton was Toanistate,, and learer of LP )

Kenny : I think we should have water meters, and the rich pay the same as the poor.
Burton : ok, no prob.
Kenny : I'm about to take my pension soon, But I think the poor should have to wait til 68 years old.
Burton : ok, no prob.
Kenny: Maybe we should half the lone parents allowance, Bingo halls are packed, make them stay at home.
Burton: Yeah sure thing.
Kenny: I think we can force the unemployed to sign up for a public service card, and make them jump through hoops to get it.
Burton: Yeah Yeah, No prob.
Kenny: Would you Labour TD's mind leaving the room while we talk about Dinny.
Burton: Yeah Yeah, we'll just stand outside the door, call us when you want us back.

And all this with dumb dumb Kenny, just imagine what Leo will do to poor Micheál ...

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Cool story.

We're all in stitches here

Did you think of it yourself?

It would be absolutely hilarious if he got the casting right. I taught it was Eamon Gilmore was Tainste when Labour and FG negotiated the 2011 programme for government. But sure they are not the only facts he got wrong.

Water charges, pension reform and property tax were all part of the agreement with the Trioka so that we could still pay for health care and Education. It was not with in the remit of any agreement. Remember Gilmore the Labour way or Farnkfurt way. It was the Frankfurt way.

The public services card is a great way of preventing fraud on any state payments. There had been a historical issue with a minority claiming multiple payments. The PS card helped reduce this fraud. It not just for unemployment but for OAP, lone Parent etc. Many of these people had no official identification. Maybe we should have made them all get passports that cost 75 euro each now. Virtually all states now require mandatory ID for services.


As I said hilarious he want to get his script writer to make sure he cross references his facts in future

James Brown

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It would be absolutely hilarious if he got the casting right. I taught it was Eamon Gilmore was Tainste when Labour and FG negotiated the 2011 programme for government. But sure they are not the only facts he got wrong.

Water charges, pension reform and property tax were all part of the agreement with the Trioka so that we could still pay for health care and Education. It was not with in the remit of any agreement. Remember Gilmore the Labour way or Farnkfurt way. It was the Frankfurt way.

The public services card is a great way of preventing fraud on any state payments. There had been a historical issue with a minority claiming multiple payments. The PS card helped reduce this fraud. It not just for unemployment but for OAP, lone Parent etc. Many of these people had no official identification. Maybe we should have made them all get passports that cost 75 euro each now. Virtually all states now require mandatory ID for services.


As I said hilarious he want to get his script writer to make sure he cross references his facts in future

To be fair FG used a crisis to look after their own and Labour sat on their hands so he was pretty much on the button.
However much we fell for, 'okay now, we're f***ed, no more messing/change the way we do business' and the resulting cronyism and sweet deal/jobs for the boys, I can't see Leo 'foot in mouth' Varadkar getting away with too much from the Covid crisis, but FG will try.
Housing crisis, private vulture fund landlords get the nod from FG. Global pandemic, private clinics/hospitals get the nod form FG. Business as per...

RobertKK

Universal healthcare for women and children - if it was men and children, it would rightly called out as being for what it is - sexist.

satguy

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It would be absolutely hilarious if he got the casting right. I taught it was Eamon Gilmore was Tainste when Labour and FG negotiated the 2011 programme for government. But sure they are not the only facts he got wrong.

It's hard to remember things when your being bent over.

Bass Reeves

satguy wrote: »

It's hard to remember things when your being bent over.

So in other words we can take it that most of what you post is incorrect and figments of your imagination. It OK from now on we just accept that you make it up as you go along.

efanton

What I find incredible is that its taken so long for a document to be put together that appears not to give one concrete guarantee, not a single costing, nor any timelines and yet they expect this to persuade a smaller party to join them.

Its fantasy Ireland stuff, FG and FF have just put together a Late Late show something for everyone but essentially worthless aspirational document that anyone reading what has been released so far can clearly see to be nothing whatsoever to do with a programme for government.

After 3 weeks of work to put this together, surely you expect at least one promise, one commitment on spending. Its business as usual, no commitments, no promise except that there will be no more income tax hikes but says nothing about taxation and levies in other areas.

Its comical at best, totally tragic at worst. God help this country if a smaller party is stupid enough to swallow this waffle

James Brown

Bass Reeves wrote: »

So in other words we can take it that most of what you post is incorrect and figments of your imagination. It OK from now on we just accept that you make it up as you go along.

Talk about re-writing history. We were broke. We took on generational debt. We'd money for a quango, Reilly's clinics, a sweet deal still under investigation, 'looking after our own', inappropriate behaviour and on and on and Labour did nothing.... what's incorrect here?
I'll expect much more of the same taking advantage after the pandemic.will it be the Greens blowing little windmills while FG/FF bleed us and blame us?

FrancieBrady

efanton wrote: »

What I find incredible is that its taken so long for a document to be put together that appears not to give one concrete guarantee, not a single costing, nor any timelines and yet they expect this to persuade a smaller party to join them.

Its fantasy Ireland stuff, FG and FF have just put together a Late Late show something for everyone but essentially worthless aspirational document that anyone reading what has been released so far can clearly see to be nothing whatsoever to do with a programme for government.

After 3 weeks of work to put this together, surely you expect at least one promise, one commitment on spending. Its business as usual, no commitments, no promise except that there will be no more income tax hikes but says nothing about taxation and levies in other areas.

Its comical at best, totally tragic at worst. God help this country if a smaller party is stupid enough to swallow this waffle

They'll get them into a room (purpose of the document) and start promising the bypasses and constituency bonanzas etc and the Indos (and my bet is) the Greens will use the document as a smokescreen for going in. (also the purpose of the document)
That Martin isn't getting crucified (as SF would) for going back on his promise not to go into coalition with FG is just old politics and old media.
Let them at it, the fall will be joyous to behold when it inevitably happens.

satguy

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It OK from now on we just accept that you make it up as you go along.

No, not OK

My posts are bang on,, that's why they hurt so much, a lot of FG fan boys in this thread will pick at the odd dropped stitch. But fail to see the whole story.

efanton

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They'll get them into a room (purpose of the document) and start promising the bypasses and constituency bonanzas etc and the Indos (and my bet is) the Greens will use the document as a smokescreen for going in. (also the purpose of the document)
That Martin isn't getting crucified (as SF would) for going back on his promise not to go into coalition with FG is just old politics and old media.
Let them It at it, the fall will be joyous to behold when it inevitably happens.

It seems many TD's in FF are against it. Even if they can be persuaded to vote for it they still have to get the party membership support, and I think they are going to find that very difficult..
FF will want guarantees, because if they dont get them they know it is likely to finally destroy the party and their support as you suggest will swing to SF. FG obviously do not want to commit to anything.

As far as I see it the only reason this is happening is so that Mehole Martin gets to cling to his last chance at being Taoiseach and FG are quite happy for this merry little farce to drag out as long as possible so they are not faced with either calling an election or being forced into a Unity government.

Any of the smaller parties that fall for this con job is going to be absolutely decimated at the next general election.

blanch152

efanton wrote: »

What I find incredible is that its taken so long for a document to be put together that appears not to give one concrete guarantee, not a single costing, nor any timelines and yet they expect this to persuade a smaller party to join them.

Its fantasy Ireland stuff, FG and FF have just put together a Late Late show something for everyone but essentially worthless aspirational document that anyone reading what has been released so far can clearly see to be nothing whatsoever to do with a programme for government.

After 3 weeks of work to put this together, surely you expect at least one promise, one commitment on spending. Its business as usual, no commitments, no promise except that there will be no more income tax hikes but says nothing about taxation and levies in other areas.

Its comical at best, totally tragic at worst. God help this country if a smaller party is stupid enough to swallow this waffle

It could be worse, FG only agreed to consider government about a month after the election.

Other parties were celebrating on election night and proclaiming they would lead a government and haven’t managed to put any kind of document together with any kind of party. Now that would be comical and embarrassing.

Fann Linn

blanch152 wrote: »

It could be worse, FG only agreed to consider government about a month after the election.

Other parties were celebrating on election night and proclaiming they would lead a government and haven’t managed to put any kind of document together with any kind of party. Now that would be comical and embarrassing.

If that tickled ye Blanch you're gonna really be amused when you see FG/FF in bed together.

satguy

I never thought I'd see the day, FG & FF jumping into bed together.

A marrage made in hell, they need a patsy to help out with the numbers.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

It could be worse, FG only agreed to consider government about a month after the election.

Other parties were celebrating on election night and proclaiming they would lead a government and haven’t managed to put any kind of document together with any kind of party. Now that would be comical and embarrassing.

Celebrating their success in showing up FG as a government devoid of ideas and competence to get anything through. And in getting shut of probably the worst Ministers for Health and Housing we have seen.

That they are still with is will come back to bite...watch.

Beasty

markodaly wrote: »

Is that a program for government, no it is not.

If you cannot tell the difference, then you have no business discussing politics. Perhaps there is a 4chan thread somewhere for you.

markodaly wrote: »

Well, that is the level of debate here.

When people are using Gript as a stick to beat FG with, I am quite happy as the people who read it are the same type of red-neck Trump supporters they claim to hate.

In fairness SF supporters and gript.ie are in the same family.

markodaly wrote: »

You mean we should post non-FG stuff in the FG thread?
Right so Ted! :D

As I said, this is the honeypot thread for the cranks and malcontents under the guise of getting at 'da guberment'. Work away lad, work away...:)

Do not post in this thread again

Muahahaha

efanton wrote: »

What I find incredible is that its taken so long for a document to be put together that appears not to give one concrete guarantee, not a single costing, nor any timelines and yet they expect this to persuade a smaller party to join them.

Its fantasy Ireland stuff, FG and FF have just put together a Late Late show something for everyone but essentially worthless aspirational document that anyone reading what has been released so far can clearly see to be nothing whatsoever to do with a programme for government.

It definitely sounds aspirational. Forget where I read it but saw that this document is 35 pages long whereas the FG-FF programme for govt. document was 156 pages long.

Would imagine this document also contains lots of flowery aspirational language such as 'we will endeavour to do XYZ' without actually committing to it.

Idbatterim

Fg get some hail mary set of circumstances and they are going to balls it up to ninety! LOL! for the FG'ers on here, reporting back to HQ, hell Varadkar, if you are reading this, with one of your sock puppet accounts. It wasnt margaret cash and that cohort that you are so concered about, that desereted you in their droves this election, its the ones you have paying for her and her mates, while you impoverish hard working people to pay for your banana republic.

Maybe you could let the middle keep some money, instead of sending it right down the bottom and top :rolleyes:

efanton

You've got to giggle when even their own TD's are absolutely lampooning the framework document

TD for Carlow-Kilkenny John McGuinness reportedly told the meeting that the only thing missing from the document was "free WiFi and Netflix for everyone".

"Other people asked why after nine and a half years, why couldn't have Fine Gael implemented these things before?"

"It's not achievable, but no one raised that as this is seen a mainly aspirational document."

"Other parties will be invited with their shopping lists that will never be implemented either."

An unnamed FF TD "This is the f**king end of Fianna Fáil."

"With this deal we have essentially put Sinn Fein into opposition for the next five years and made them the credible alternative," the source said. "We've played right into their hands, because when the cuts come after Covid-19, and they are coming, Sinn Fein can stand up and argue against them.

A FF TD "The only policy the party has had for over a year is to make Micheal Martin the Taoiseach, the pandemic might help that, but it could end the party, and everyone knows, but we only have bad options."


Seriously, you have just got to laugh. FF TD's at this rate will make SF in opposition totally redundant. If I was a betting man I would be down to Paddy Powers in the morning looking for odds for the FF party to reject going into coalition.

If there ever was a lesson as to how not to back yourself into a corner, this whole coalition saga is probably it.
FF would have been far better off to accept no coalition could be formed and hope that they could steal seats from FG in a subsequent election. Now if they go they will be torn asunder.

McMurphy

efanton wrote: »

You've got to giggle when even their own TD's are absolutely lampooning the framework document

TD for Carlow-Kilkenny John McGuinness reportedly told the meeting that the only thing missing from the document was "free WiFi and Netflix for everyone".

"Other people asked why after nine and a half years, why couldn't have Fine Gael implemented these things before?"

"It's not achievable, but no one raised that as this is seen a mainly aspirational document."

"Other parties will be invited with their shopping lists that will never be implemented either."

An unnamed FF TD "This is the f**king end of Fianna Fáil."

"With this deal we have essentially put Sinn Fein into opposition for the next five years and made them the credible alternative," the source said. "We've played right into their hands, because when the cuts come after Covid-19, and they are coming, Sinn Fein can stand up and argue against them.

A FF TD "The only policy the party has had for over a year is to make Micheal Martin the Taoiseach, the pandemic might help that, but it could end the party, and everyone knows, but we only have bad options."


Seriously, you have just got to laugh. FF TD's at this rate will make SF in opposition totally redundant. If I was a betting man I would be down to Paddy Powers in the morning looking for odds for the FF party to reject going into coalition.

If there ever was a lesson as to how not to back yourself into a corner, this whole coalition saga is probably it.
FF would have been far better off to accept no coalition could be formed and hope that they could steal seats from FG in a subsequent election. Now if they go they will be torn asunder.

Jim O"Callaghan is also reported to be giving out stink about it, apparently so too is John Lahart, and there's reports of great concerns about the effect this will have in any upcoming elections where FF/FG candidates are campaigning in the same constituencies, areas where they might hold between them 3/4 seats, or in NW Cork for example where FFG hold all 3 seats between them.

FG side of the house, Michael Ring is also strongly opposed to a coalition, Michael Creed and John Pheslm too.

And (despite being accused of tinfoil hat stuff) I was reading yesterday about a possible major fallout from within FG with certain minister's facing a full as obviously leo can't keep them all on board with goodies if he gets in bed with FF.

Eoghan Murphy, Richard Bruton, Joe McHugh and Josepha Madigan are some key figures potentially facing the chop if it goes ahead, will be entertaining if it does for sure.

Anyway, with labour and the SDs making noises about being farily unimpressed with what they're seeing (haven't heard the latest from the greens) it isn't clear if it'll even get off the ground to begin with.

Not seeing it myself, though hoping it will for the guilty pleasure of watching it tear themselves apart with the end result that one will consume the other, and I won't be surprised to see them merge to become one party after the dust settles.

Fine Fail has a nice ring to it.