FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

Snow Garden

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Josepha embarrassing herself again? Image is everything though isn't it.

Very poor TD. Surprised she got back in.

landofthetree

Bowie wrote: »

So you are okay with the tax payer taking a hit while FG look after their own with sweet deals and jobs? How about we simply act off of a sense of value for money? Let's be fiscally conservative. FG's fiscal conservatism means austerity for the public and blank cheques for everything else.

Pensions is a good one. Working tax payers are in many cases needing state aid and many more just managing to get by. Then we've the bogeyman of pensions hanging over us and ignorant people like Leo 'had to borrow off my parents' Varadkar wondering why more folk aren't saving towards their pension. Maybe if rents weren't so nuts and property not used by the wealthy for investment, or people got a decent living wage they might be able to put a bit away. The FG way is to cut you to the quick for private profits and then point fingers at retirees by making them sign on for a year and look down on them for not having a private pension.
Have a think about that. These are the so called fiscal conservatives. Cutting the legs out from under you then looking down on you because you need a dig out. you would think it was their money, mind they do use the tax payer as a buy in for private gain.

Who doesn't work? The sick, pensioners. How many are we talking that choose not to work, have you numbers? With such high employment why are you whinging about a likely minuscule number and who built and runs the system you are giving out about, Gino whoever the f*** or FF/FG?
CE Scheme :rolleyes:

SF SD Greens etc want to remove tax relief at the hight rate for pensions. :rolleyes:

From 2016

Gerry Adams's party has proposed to massively reduce tax relief on private pensions - at a time when experts are warning of a looming crisis because not enough people are saving for their retirement.

An average worker on an income of €40,000, who pays 10pc into a pension pot, could lose out on as much as €800 annually as a result of the move.

Same plan as the UK Tories want to bring in.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-7987173/Will-pension-tax-relief-slashed-20-all.html

A raid on popular pension tax breaks to drum up money for other government priorities is reportedly on the cards in the upcoming Budget.

Pensions tax relief could be set at 20 per cent for everyone, potentially saving £10billion in payments to higher rate taxpayers.

Idbatterim

Promises in FG-FF document don't add up - and raise risk of a voter backlash


https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/promises-in-fg-ff-document-dont-add-up-and-raise-risk-of-a-voter-backlash-39131757.html

Suckit

christy c wrote: »

Not good, last thing we need is Leo getting sick. He has been performing well under difficult circumstances.

What has he done so well?
Followed the HSE guide, read out a couple of speeches written for him and manned the phone lines, and followed the spin script.

efanton

THe tax system in this country is complete broken and unfit for purpose. It pointless arguing that the existing system could be altered in some way and still be fair.

The main problem with it is the two bands.
In order to help the poorest you adjust the lowest band and rather than just target them you target everyone.
If you want to help the squeezed middle you raise the threshold for the upper band and as a side effect you help the extremely wealthy more than the squeezed middle you were trying to target.

Sf had the right idea introducing a third band but I personally would argue the implementation was wrong.
With three bands you can specifically target a group and only affect that group be they the lowest paid, the squeezed middle, or the highest earners.

Personally I think there should be three bands, and that would enable taxation of lowest incomes at a much lower rate.
I would suggest the band be set at
12k to 30k @10%
30k to 60k @25 to 30%
70k upwards @ 45% to 50%

Now I know people are going to immediately argue that those tax rates would not work, or that they favour one group unfairly and I would accept that. I dont have the figures the department of finance has. I don't know the effects that those particular numbers would have. I dont know whether those number would generate the same amount of taxation as the current tax bands. But that's not the point.

What I do know is with a two band system you are always going to have some people arguing that the lowest paid get everything for nothing, and others arguing that richest do not contribute enough. With a two band system you will never have a fair tax system and never please the majority.
With a three band system you can alter the tax rates for the different bands so that they are fair, target those you really want to help, widen the tax base so that everyone contributes in some way and at the same time generate enough tax revenue to run a country.

So please dont hammer the rates I have put there, as already stated they are just rough indicator and would obviously need fine tuning before a three band system could be introduced. My point is a three band system would be a far better system that can be modified easily to get a desired effect. It would also allow you to widen the tax base without crucifying the lowest paid.
By all mean argue against a three band system if you wish.


The other issue I think needs addressing is the minimum wage. Currently we have people working full time and still able to draw supplementary welfare payments because what they earn is simply not enough to live on. In effect we have the state subsidising private business by topping up inadequate wages.
One of the reason the government will not lower the threshold for the lower band is it simply makes no difference at best, at worst it costs the country more. If they lowered the threshold, they would simply be paying out more supplementary benefits and paying for the extra administration that would entail.

Idbatterim

Efanton, not having a meaninful property tax, is IDIOCY beyond comprehension. Many spend more on a night out in dublin, than they would on the pathetic LPT. That is where they should rain several billion more from...

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/ronan-lyons-state-is-foregoing-billions-in-revenue-with-low-property-tax-38785997.html

taxing something, that is optional for many people at idiotic rates over a pittance, labour is mobile, capital is mobile, and I have employees that wont want over time even on a good hourly rate, people wont take promotions etc (are you bothered in some cases taking way more responsiblity for say 4 thousand in a lower case scenarion, so 2k is what you are getting) many wont, many take extra annual leave or other perks, rather than be taxed at marginal rate...

There is a fantastic video on how government and corporations have basically moved the entire tax burden onto the peasants, there needs to be a property site value tax, local property tax or even better, a council tax, with no exemptions!

David mcwilliams, ronan lyons, loads of economists, have written about the idiocy of taxing labour at such penal rates, ad nauseum...

efanton

Idbatterim wrote: »

Efanton, not having a meaninful property tax, is IDIOCY beyond comprehension. Many spend more on a night out in dublin, than they would on the pathetic LPT. That is where they should rain several billion more from...

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/ronan-lyons-state-is-foregoing-billions-in-revenue-with-low-property-tax-38785997.html

taxing something, that is optional for many people at idiotic rates over a pittance, labour is mobile, capital is mobile, and I have employees that wont want over time even on a good hourly rate, people wont take promotions etc (are you bothered in some cases taking way more responsibility for say 4 thousand in a lower case scenarion, so 2k is what you are getting) many wont, many take extra annual leave or other perks, rather than be taxed at marginal rate...

There is a fantastic video on how government and corporations have basically moved the entire tax burden onto the peasants, there needs to be a property site value tax, local property tax or even better, a council tax, with no exemptions!

David mcwilliams, ronan lyons, loads of economists, have written about the idiocy of taxing labour at such penal rates, ad nauseum...

Generally I am against all forms of tax that are not income, CGT, inheritance or fuel taxes (both domestic and transport). But the inheritance tax needs its threshold to be dramatically increased so that the typical 3 bed semi in Dublin or any other part of the country doesnt result in those inheriting facing a substantial tax bill, somewhere around the 400k mark I suppose).


The reason for that is simple. the alternative taxes never are used for their intended purpose.
Stamp duty, LPT, and council rents should only be used for the construction of new homes and to run our county councils.
Motor tax should only be used for transport infrastructure, roads, and public transport

When the government has all these other taxes to rely on its easy to make election promises not to raise income tax and then screw people royally by increasing these other taxes or levies instead.
If they were ring fenced for their particular purposes I would be totally with you on a property tax, but until then all they are is an excuse to make false promises but still raise taxation anyhow.

I would agree vacant sites should be taxed in a similar way to properties if we are to properly implement a property tax.



In the mean time I think a 3 band tax system would address many issues, be able to give the squeezed middle some relief without at the same time giving the very wealthy an even bigger windfall, and also enable to allow taxation of all incomes if the lowest band was set at a more modest level.
I think any government genuinely interested in reforming our tax system so that it is fairier but still gathers sufficient revenue should start here

I really dont understand why no government has done it already. It makes perfect sense as you are able to tailor a budget change to specifically target higher, middle or lower incomes specifically.

Idbatterim

I dont think there is a chance they will bring more into the tax net , " an attack on the vulnerable " etc, you can see they are prepared to lose power and seats before they would implement any changes, it's like they think you can " lead" through paralysis

Also the stupid fools with motor tax, nearly every new car sold, has as good as free motor tax !

efanton

Idbatterim wrote: »

I dont think there is a chance they will bring more into the tax net , " an attack on the vulnerable " etc, you can see they are prepared to lose power and seats before they would implement any changes, it's like they think you can " lead" through paralysis

Also the stupid fools with motor tax, nearly every new car sold, has as good as free motor tax !

I agree on motor tax. It should be scrapped and replaced with a small increase in tax on a litre fuel so that any revenue lost is offset by this increase on fuel. Those that burn most fossil fuels will pay proportionately more.

That is the only way to get this country going to greener energy. You would soon see people ditching their 2.0-2.5 litre Passat or SUV for cars that are far more fuel efficient if they do not have the means to buy an electric/hybrid vehicle.
The system they have at the moment mean you can tax a 3.0 litre BMW cheaper than my fathers 2007 ford Focus that does a max of 5000 km a year.

I understand that would let totally electric vehicles off scott free but I think it would be worth allowing that to happen for another 4 or 5 years just to encourage people to make the switch to a more fuel efficient vehicle. Once most cars are electric or hybrid then charge a standard fee every time an electric/hybrid car goes for an NCT. That would eliminate an awful lot of unnecessary administration and keep the policing and court costs down.
For those that chose to continue using internal combustion engines they will be paying significantly more because you would be adjusting the tax on fuel to generate the same tax revenue each year.
A far more efficient and effective solution than simple applying carbon taxes.

blanch152

landofthetree wrote: »

SF SD Greens etc want to remove tax relief at the hight rate for pensions. :rolleyes:

From 2016


Same plan as the UK Tories want to bring in.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-7987173/Will-pension-tax-relief-slashed-20-all.html

The Sinn Fein planned attack on pensions is one of the most insidious of all. It is a disguised public service pay cut aligned with a targetting of those individuals who prudently save for pensions for themselves.

All to be replaced with taxing unicorns and rainbows to pay for pensions for people who won't pay for them themselves.

efanton

blanch152 wrote: »

The Sinn Fein planned attack on pensions is one of the most insidious of all. It is a disguised public service pay cut aligned with a targetting of those individuals who prudently save for pensions for themselves.

All to be replaced with taxing unicorns and rainbows to pay for pensions for people who won't pay for them themselves.

So you think those that do not have private pensions should be subsidising those that do?

If you want a private pension in addition to whatever you will get from the state, then go ahead and put money aside. But why are you expecting me to subsidise that additional pension?

Many workers simply cannot afford a private pension plan, its nothing to do with prudence.

Idbatterim

Efanton I believe in Holland, diesel are charged quite a bit more than petrol in motor tax , so that people will only drive one of doing enough mileage to make it worthwhile ...

They have concocted the perfect storm of taxation idiocy and spending idiocy, I believe an extra 13 billion is being spent a year now v 2016, you wouldn't know it!

Their usual one horse trick of pumping up an already over the top welfare state each year, for fears of being branded, heartless far right etc is laughable, there are endless other areas far more worthy of the Money!

Free go visits for those with medical cards is comedy too!

Mortelaro

efanton wrote: »

So you think those that do not have private pensions should be subsidising those that do?

They don't
Most people with private pensions who also have the OAP,pay tax
I know my mother does
She has been subsidising public pensions all her life including after retirement

efanton

Idbatterim wrote: »

Efanton I believe in Holland, diesel are charged quite a bit more than petrol in motor tax , so that people will only drive one of doing enough mileage to make it worthwhile ...

They have concocted the perfect storm of taxation idiocy and spending idiocy, I believe an extra 13 billion is being spent a year now v 2016, you wouldn't know it!

Their usual one horse trick of pumping up an already over the top welfare state each year, for fears of being branded, heartless far right etc is laughable, there are endless other areas far more worthy of the Money!

Free go visits for those with medical cards is comedy too!

Agian I think motor tax doesnt work. You have people that have cars with big engines, but they dont care because its a new car and the road tax is dirt cheap. They are not going to switch to electric unless they are forced to.

Tax the fuel and not the car and attitudes would change over night.

You might even find that by putting the tax on the fuel instead of the vehicle people might start thinking about using public transport where possible rather than driving their SUV as in many commutes it will become the cheaper option.

_Kaiser_

efanton wrote: »

Agian I think motor tax doesnt work. You have people that have cars with big engines, but they dont care because its a new car and the road tax is dirt cheap. They are not going to switch to electric unless they are forced to.

Tax the fuel and not the car and attitudes would change over night.

You might even find that by putting the tax on the fuel instead of the vehicle people might start thinking about using public transport where possible rather than driving their SUV as in many commutes it will become the cheaper option.

This "tax the fuel" idea is done to death on motors.

Its usually advocated by those who have working public transport, retail and entertainment outlets within easy reach, and live maybe 20 minutes away from work.

In other words, people who could probably do without a car altogether.

What it's not so good for are those trekking 2/3 hours a day to/from the office, who are living rurally or priced out of the city, or who have older cars they can't afford to just change (especially in the upcoming financial crisis).

Also, such people are already paying more tax through their fuel costs and increased costs like tyres, servicing, expensive repairs due to high mileage etc etc.

So, not a runner - especially now

RandomViewer

efanton wrote: »

Agian I think motor tax doesnt work. You have people that have cars with big engines, but they dont care because its a new car and the road tax is dirt cheap. They are not going to switch to electric unless they are forced to.

Tax the fuel and not the car and attitudes would change over night.

You might even find that by putting the tax on the fuel instead of the vehicle people might start thinking about using public transport where possible rather than driving their SUV as in many commutes it will become the cheaper option.

Covid has killed public transport, it'll be years before you get back to high usage and even then you'll need to be giving it away, car sales will take a huge hit this year and overpriced electric vehicles will suffer the most, UK won't introduce fuel taxes so every petrol station on the border will make a fortune like they did in the 80s

James Brown

'Listen I've made billions off the Irish tax payer over the years. During this life and death global pandemic I feel the least I can do is open up a few beds and make equipment available to the HSE staff already volunteering in private hospitals and clinics' said no pal of Fine Gael ever.....

Anytime anything happens the same people get the deal. Making twice as much as private hospitals in the UK by all accounts. These are the important people.
Imagine if the supposed paid too much, too many holidays HSE staff held the private clinics to such ransom?

Mortelaro

Bowie wrote: »

'Listen I've made billions off the Irish tax payer over the years. During this life and death global pandemic I feel the least I can do is open up a few beds and make equipment available to the HSE staff already volunteering in private hospitals and clinics' said no pal of Fine Gael ever.....

Is that a quote from satire site Waterford whispers?
I genuinely had to explain to a science student in second year of university that mallow news wasn't a real news organisation but a satire site also

Have to say baby Jesus weeps

Idbatterim

RandomViewer wrote: »

Covid has killed public transport, it'll be years before you get back to high usage and even then you'll need to be giving it away, car sales will take a huge hit this year and overpriced electric vehicles will suffer the most, UK won't introduce fuel taxes so every petrol station on the border will make a fortune like they did in the 80s

yeah they only way the fuel thing would work, is if the north adopted same policy. Otherwise you would have people going up for the cheaper fuel and drink / food etc... unless they started charging per distance driven, which has been proposed...

RandomViewer

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah they only way the fuel thing would work, is if the north adopted same policy. Otherwise you would have people going up for the cheaper fuel and drink / food etc... unless they started charging per distance driven, which has been proposed...

Vehicles easier clocked than ever, that won't fly.

blanch152

Mortelaro wrote: »

Is that a quote from satire site Waterford whispers?
I genuinely had to explain to a science student in second year of university that mallow news wasn't a real news organisation but a satire site also

Have to say baby Jesus weeps

Some people get confused between reality and fantasy. They see boogeymen around every corner while believing that unicorns and rainbows will pay for everything.

landofthetree

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1132053/

They noted that over half of Irish SMEs now have no bank debt whatsoever compared to 25% in 2012. Similarly, bank lending to SMEs has declined from €60 billion to €20 billion over the past ten years.

Irish household debt has fallen from a peak of €203 billion in 2008 to €135 billion, while new mortgage lending has been held in check by the Central Bank's lending rules.

We aren't in such a bad position. If only FG didn't increase public spending by 13 billion since 2016 we would be in even better shape.

satguy

Once again,,, FG doing what FG do best,, and It's all about their inner circle, but mostly Dinny.

Varadkar says €115m per month is an 'accurate estimate' for cost of renting private hospitals

We know the owner of FG also ownes the Beacon Hospital,, so it was a given that the boss would do well from this pandemic.
They even changed the TAX laws so he could stick around for a while more.

But did you know that Simon Coveney’s wife is Larry Goodman’ s niece. And Larry owns The Blackrock Clinic ,,,

https://www.thejournal.ie/government-private-hospital-deal-5076554-Apr2020/#comment-8780276

Time and Time again,, there are a small few names that always seem to do well by FG,, the same 3 or 4 names keep popping up.
FG are the wide boys,, and FF will have no chance dealing with them,,, It Will Be A MASSACRE !!

Shefwedfan

efanton wrote: »

Agian I think motor tax doesnt work. You have people that have cars with big engines, but they dont care because its a new car and the road tax is dirt cheap. They are not going to switch to electric unless they are forced to.

Tax the fuel and not the car and attitudes would change over night.

You might even find that by putting the tax on the fuel instead of the vehicle people might start thinking about using public transport where possible rather than driving their SUV as in many commutes it will become the cheaper option.

Fuel is already taxed....


The more fuel you use the more tax you pay.....

Shefwedfan

RandomViewer wrote: »

Covid has killed public transport, it'll be years before you get back to high usage and even then you'll need to be giving it away, car sales will take a huge hit this year and overpriced electric vehicles will suffer the most, UK won't introduce fuel taxes so every petrol station on the border will make a fortune like they did in the 80s

Why has covid killed public transport?

Mortelaro

satguy wrote: »

Once again,,, FG doing what FG do best,, and It's all about their inner circle, but mostly Dinny.

Varadkar says €115m per month is an 'accurate estimate' for cost of renting private hospitals

We know the owner of FG also ownes the Beacon Hospital,, so it was a given that the boss would do well from this pandemic.
They even changed the TAX laws so he could stick around for a while more.

But did you know that Simon Coveney’s wife is Larry Goodman’ s niece. And Larry owns The Blackrock Clinic ,,,

https://www.thejournal.ie/government-private-hospital-deal-5076554-Apr2020/#comment-8780276

Time and Time again,, there are a small few names that always seem to do well by FG,, the same 3 or 4 names keep popping up.
FG are the wide boys,, and FF will have no chance dealing with them,,, It Will Be A MASSACRE !!

So let me get this straight..
The contention above is private hospitals were negotiated into public availability for the current crisis on the basis that FG buddies would make money

That's a text book example of a crackpot conspiracy theory

Shefwedfan

Mortelaro wrote: »

So let me get this straight..
The contention above is private hospitals were negotiated into public availability for the current crisis on the basis that FG buddies would make money

That's a text book example of a crackpot conspiracy theory

What people dont seem to understand is that rich people own stuff. Very few people are rich enought to own stuff like hotels/hospitals etc....


Now if Ireland was awash with hospitals and they only picked the ones owned by their mates, then yes be outraged. But it ain't.



Ireland is tiny, especially in the rich area, so yes they all know each other and yes they probably end up marrying each other.....Say as Britnay and Jason from Coolock and live beside each other, grow up and go to school together will also get married.....its not rocket science

satguy

Mortelaro wrote: »

So let me get this straight..
The contention above is private hospitals were negotiated into public availability for the current crisis on the basis that FG buddies would make money

That's a text book example of a crackpot conspiracy theory

Some FG fan boys will never see wrong.

The rest of us just see the same few names getting richer by the day.

It really doesn't matter how or why it happens, the list of stuff on offer, will always look after the FG inner circle.

Water meters.
Phone Linence.
Tax write downs.
Laying Fiber optic cable.
Hospital Beds.
Fuel for police cars and ambulances, they all have to use a certain filling station.

The list goes on and on,, and on and on.
But.. the same names, pop up again, and again.

When will we see the truth,, and say "No MORE" ...

Topgear on Dave

satguy wrote: »

Fuel for police cars and ambulances, they all have to use a certain filling station.

Garda & HSE run enormous fleets of vehicles, I expect them to buy in bulk contracts, not from any old supplier anywhere.

satguy

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Garda & HSE run enormous fleets of vehicles, I expect them to buy in bulk contracts, not from any old supplier anywhere.

Remember this..

TOPAZ WIN GOVT FUEL CONTRACT WORTH €20 MILLION

https://www.businessworld.ie/news-from-ireland/Topaz-win-Govt-fuel-contract-worth-E20m-9526.html

A starter for 10 ....
Who owned TOPAZ at the time ??

Go on,,, I'll Wait ..