FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

Salary Negotiator

Fann Linn wrote: »

Not really. Article in todays IT states 'Yes-21000 homes built last year BUT 13000 of these are single one off rural builds SO in effect only 8000 homes built for open market.

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Have you a link to that?

Not doubting you but that 13,000 figure seems huge.

Not sure why he's lying about the number of one off homes but he is.

21000 homes built of which 5068 were one-off houses. 4400 homes were acquired by the state and 3460 apartments were bought by investment funds.

The remaining 8000 were sold on the open market.

Of the 21,241 homes completed last year, the CIF says that official figures show 5,068 were one-off houses, which are mainly built by their owners and not offered for sale. Most of these would be built in rural areas.

Link

So the breakdown is about 40% were sold on the open market, 24% were one-off, 20% were bought by the state for social housing and 16% were bought by investment funds.

Jinglejangle69

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

Not sure why he's lying about the number of one off homes but he is.

21000 homes built of which 5068 were one-off houses. 4400 homes were acquired by the state and 3460 apartments were bought by investment funds.

The remaining 8000 were sold on the open market.



Link

Thought there was a smell of smell of sensationalism of it alright.

amadangomor

Yurt! wrote: »

Irish adults aged 25-29 almost twice as likely to be living with parents than their peers in the UK or France. The latest Irish figures are from 2017, but the picture isn't pretty. 47 percent of that age cohort are in the family home.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/jump-in-young-irish-adults-living-with-parents-among-highest-in-eu-1.4177848?mode=amp

A majority of the younger workers in my company are in this situation. They all voted for SF also. Just can't imagine living like this. Some of them seem quite baby like in that they cannot cook, do washing etc as their mammy still does it for them.

Like most of my generation I moved out at 18 and only spent a month here or there during college holidays or maybe returning from abroad in early 20's.

Voted FG but if they get into power again they really need to decouple themselves from a total free market solution to housing.

storker

Yurt! wrote: »

Irish adults aged 25-29 almost twice as likely to be living with parents than their peers in the UK or France. The latest Irish figures are from 2017, but the picture isn't pretty. 47 percent of that age cohort are in the family home.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/jump-in-young-irish-adults-living-with-parents-among-highest-in-eu-1.4177848?mode=amp

FGFM Newstalk made light of it this morning. Apparently it's not a problem at all...

Mortelaro

Statistics, statistics damn statistics
Our population growth in the last 20 years percentage wise is growing at double to triple the rate of other European countries
I blame Mickey for the housing problem in the 20 to 29 bracket
Less Mickey like other EU countries, less strain on resources
Very like the relationship between portion size and being overweight

James Brown

Foxtrol wrote: »

None of those costs come close to the capital expenditure required for the large scale building projects that are required and underway now.

It was suggested we'd no money, yet we found it for those things when we were in the throws of the financial meltdown. That's that point.
The money we spend on leases, rentals, hotels and buying would certainly help.

Foxtrol wrote: »

That doesn't respond to my point, you're just highlighting that their approach to those issues were the right ones.

Simply put. It means little or nothing if not spent wisely.

Foxtrol wrote: »

My point was that dealing with housing and health issues now isn't as difficult as trying to deal with both of them alongside massive unemployment and a deficit. Whether you agree or disagree with the approach, the government is in a better position to do it now than 9 or even 4 years ago.

I see your point and it's logical. However I believe it was much easier in 2011 than any other time since the foundation of the state, precisely because we were in such a bad way when people were prepared for hard times and 'changing the way we do business', in fact that's exactly what Kenny got in on.
More money to spend on a flawed system will keep the boat afloat despite the many holes.

Foxtrol wrote: »

A simple example, do you think the structural changes to Health would have been easier or harder when at the same time you're cutting the pay and conditions of staff?

Depends, in 2011, yes. If they see things like the NCH etc., maybe not. In 2011 we were led to believe we were all in it together. Kenny wasted the biggest opportunity anyone has had to tear down and rebuild.
It still needs doing and I believe that the public will support any government with the balls to try it.

James Brown

Mortelaro wrote: »

Statistics, statistics damn statistics
Our population growth in the last 20 years percentage wise is growing at double to triple the rate of other European countries
I blame Mickey for the housing problem in the 20 to 29 bracket
Less Mickey like other EU countries, less strain on resources
Very like the relationship between portion size and being overweight

So explaining why you think it's bad makes it better? ah...

Mortelaro

Bowie wrote: »

So explaining why you think it's bad makes it better? ah...

Prevention is better than cure

Idbatterim

Originally Posted by Foxtrol View Post
My point was that dealing with housing and health issues now isn't as difficult as trying to deal with both of them alongside massive unemployment and a deficit. Whether you agree or disagree with the approach, the government is in a better position to do it now than 9 or even 4 years ago.
I see your point and it's logical. However I believe it was much easier in 2011 than any other time since the foundation of the state, precisely because we were in such a bad way when people were prepared for hard times and 'changing the way we do business', in fact that's exactly what Kenny got in on.
More money to spend on a flawed system will keep the boat afloat despite the many holes.

I agree, it was easier to do it during the recession, they had an open goal. They didnt make any tough choices and if they did, we would be in the in the **** show we are now. It was the easy choice at every turn!

dont build infrastructure, dont give the go ahead to game changing projects and keep thousand of skilled workers here. Selling off dublin property via nama for a pittance and now renting luxury apartments in dundrum for social housing, costing a fortune :rolleyes:

smurgen

Some lads.

https://twitter.com/paddycosgrave/status/1230120193290051587?s=19

Fann Linn

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

Not sure why he's lying about the number of one off homes but he is.

21000 homes built of which 5068 were one-off houses. 4400 homes were acquired by the state and 3460 apartments were bought by investment funds.

The remaining 8000 were sold on the open market.



Link

So the breakdown is about 40% were sold on the open market, 24% were one-off, 20% were bought by the state for social housing and 16% were bought by investment funds.

Thanks for the link. Picked it up wrong whilst driving.

smurgen

Varadkar officially resigned now as taoiseach and will sit as caretaker. The irony being he's been nothing but a caretaker the last few years.
Hopefully he can resume his correspondence with Kylie Minogue now that he's so much time on his hands.

Reati

smurgen wrote: »

Varadkar officially resigned now as taoiseach and will sit as caretaker. The irony being he's been nothing but a caretaker the last few years.
Hopefully he can resume his correspondence with Kylie Minogue now that he's so much time on his hands.

Leo the One Term Taoiseach. Sounds like a dull book. He needs to update his twitter bio too.

Yurt2

Simon Harris made a fairly odd statement yesterday

We have a mandate not to enter programme for government negotiations he said (that's across the board with all parties, not just with SF).

Extraordinary that he interprets the votes they received in good faith as a mandate not to enter negotiations. Somehow I doubt that was part of the sales pitch on the doors last Saturday week. No other party would get away with that and nor should FG.

Back to the original point of the thread, this is very much FG in a strop and hiding in a bid to reinvent themselves without the public noticing.

ChikiChiki

Leo's high point for me was giving Boris Johnson a telling off using Greek mythology on the steps of the Taoiseachs Department.

all about the mane

Yurt! wrote: »

Simon Harris made a fairly odd statement yesterday

We have a mandate not to enter programme for government negotiations he said (that's across the board with all parties, not just with SF).

Extraordinary that he interprets the votes they received in good faith as a mandate not to enter negotiations. Somehow I doubt that was part of the sales pitch on the doors last Saturday week. No other party would get away with that and nor should FG.

Back to the original point of the thread, this is very much FG in a strop and hiding in a bid to reinvent themselves without the public noticing.

I would think most FG voters are happy enough for them to stay out of government for now. They are not in a strop. They knew what was coming. Now it’s time for the other parties to step up.

Loafing Oaf

all about the mane wrote: »

I would think most FG voters are happy enough for them to stay out of government for now. They are not in a strop. They knew what was coming. Now it’s time for the other parties to step up.

But what if other parties don't step up? Would FG voters want them to turn down a government deal with FF, a move that would almost certainly trigger a general election, an election that would very likely produce an SF-led left government?

road_high

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

But what if other parties don't step up? Would FG voters want them to turn down a government deal with FF, a move that would almost certainly trigger a general election, an election that would very likely produce an SF-led left government?

Who fears a sf led government bar sf? I’ve every confidence they’ll fall flat on their holes very quickly once in government. There’s nothing to suggest they’ll be any sort of success and everything to suggest they’ll be dreadful. The time has come to put sf under the microscope of govt.
Terrorists, anti vaxxers, welfare freeloaders and flat earth anti semites all mixed together are bound to be an amazing recipe for success. The SF vote base us extremely soft and clearly not the types that’ll be waiting around “giving them a chance”- they’ll want very quick results indeed

all about the mane

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

But what if other parties don't step up? Would FG voters want them to turn down a government deal with FF, a move that would almost certainly trigger a general election, an election that would very likely produce an SF-led left government?

FG voters know that they have been in a bind for a lot of the previous term. A minority government for much of it. Other parties have continuously shot their mouth off about what should be done. Well let’s see them do it.
If there was another election and SF got to lead, even better. Let’s see how many of those pie-in-the-sky promises they could keep. SF are not the only ones who can play a ‘long game’.

road_high

all about the mane wrote: »

FG voters know that they have been in a bind for a lot of the previous term. A minority government for much of it. Other parties have continuously shot their mouth off about what should be done. Well let’s see them do it.
If there was another election and SF got to lead, even better. Let’s see how many of those pie-in-the-sky promises they could keep. SF are not the only ones who can play a ‘long game’.

Indeed. The very best outcome is a sf led government. I’m sick and tired of listening to their endless whining. I want to see the colour of their money in power

all about the mane

road_high wrote: »

Indeed. The very best outcome is a sf led government. I’m sick and tired of listening to their endless whining. I want to see the colour of their money in power

To be fair, sf and ff are every bit as close together as ff and fg. I don’t see why all the pressure is on the latter too to make a deal.

Loafing Oaf

all about the mane wrote: »

FG voters know that they have been in a bind for a lot of the previous term. A minority government for much of it. Other parties have continuously shot their mouth off about what should be done. Well let’s see them do it.
If there was another election and SF got to lead, even better. Let’s see how many of those pie-in-the-sky promises they could keep. SF are not the only ones who can play a ‘long game’.

But what would happen to FG in that election? FF would be hammering home the message: "We're the reasonable ones, we offered FG a deal to save the country from the nightmare of SF in government but they turned us down in pursuit of what they perceived to be their own long-term interests."
And would FG maintain the stance of "We want to rebuild in opposition" going into that election? What is ever the point of voting for a party with that pitch? if they genuinely believe a spell of SF-led government would be the best thing after the election, shouldn't they actually be instructing people to vote SF?

road_high

all about the mane wrote: »

To be fair, sf and ff are every bit as close together as ff and fg. I don’t see why all the pressure is on the latter too to make a deal.

One can understand the FF reticence to go in with them though. Mary lou is extremely belligerent and I could see how it would be very difficult for any normal politician or party to work with someone without any pragmatic team skills or zero government experience. You’d be hand holding them constantly and they’d be hiding behind you with all their inevitable fcuk ups. Like the not very intelligent shouty idiot that disrupted class constantly in school. That’s what coalition with SF would be like

all about the mane

road_high wrote: »

One can understand the FF reticence to go in with them though. Mary lou is extremely belligerent and I could see how it would be very difficult for any normal politician or party to work with someone without any pragmatic team skills or zero government experience. You’d be hand holding them constantly and they’d be hiding behind you with all their inevitable fcuk ups. Like the not very intelligent shouty idiot that disrupted class constantly in school. That’s what coalition with SF would be like

Problem is, the longer FF stay out of government, the more votes they are losing to them

road_high

all about the mane wrote: »

Problem is, the longer FF stay out of government, the more votes they are losing to them

I think you’ve got it the other way round- the longer SF stay out of government the more votes they gain.

IAmTheReign

Yurt! wrote: »

Simon Harris made a fairly odd statement yesterday

We have a mandate not to enter programme for government negotiations he said (that's across the board with all parties, not just with SF).

Extraordinary that he interprets the votes they received in good faith as a mandate not to enter negotiations. Somehow I doubt that was part of the sales pitch on the doors last Saturday week. No other party would get away with that and nor should FG.

Back to the original point of the thread, this is very much FG in a strop and hiding in a bid to reinvent themselves without the public noticing.

Sinn Fein have said exactly that since the foundation of their party. This is the first election where Sinn Fein have actually considered entering government.

FG went from the largest to the third largest party, it's clear the general public don't want them in government. And yet the same people who voted them out are now whinging that they won't enter government again.

Everyone keeps saying people voted for change so it's time the other parties got on with trying to change things.

all about the mane

road_high wrote: »

I think you’ve got it the other way round- the longer SF stay out of government the more votes they gain.

Yes, but it’s ff votes they are taking

all about the mane

IAmTheReign wrote: »

Sinn Fein have said exactly that since the foundation of their party. This is the first election where Sinn Fein have actually considered entering government.

FG went from the largest to the third largest party, it's clear the general public don't want them in government. And yet the same people who voted them out are now whinging that they won't enter government again.

Everyone keeps saying people voted for change so it's time the other parties got on with trying to change things.

Exactly. If it’s good enough for SF, then it’s surely good enough for FG.

Yurt2

I must say, watching Fine Gael wriggle going for the escape hatch as they enthusiastically don the robes of the party of protest is most humourous to watch.

Making themselves very very cosy on the ditch.

No bottle

jmayo

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

But what if other parties don't step up? Would FG voters want them to turn down a government deal with FF, a move that would almost certainly trigger a general election, an election that would very likely produce an SF-led left government?

FG members, rather than all their voters, would definitely not want to go into government with the old adversary FF.
Likewise with FF members.

Also both of them realise that if they do get together then the defacto opposition is the shinners, who have already gained significantly because they promise the earth, moon and stars to the masses.

And a lot of people voted this time for sinn fein out of desperation (needing property and better healthcare) and stupidity.
Yes you are stupid if you believe that sinn fein can magically solve all the problems while cutting your taxes and offering you even more freebies.
You might as well believe in unicorns.

You can't do a lot about the stupidity, but you can about a lot of people's desperation, but it takes time.
No matter who is in, our housing problems require major overhaul of city and country planning as well as significant public funding of council/corpo housing.
The other very difficult thing for anyone to get across is that a lot of Irish people need to start realising that they will have to live in apartments and/or rent forever.
It will be as big a change in our lifestyles as the changes due to environmental issues.

road_high wrote: »

Who fears a sf led government bar sf? I’ve every confidence they’ll fall flat on their holes very quickly once in government. There’s nothing to suggest they’ll be any sort of success and everything to suggest they’ll be dreadful. The time has come to put sf under the microscope of govt.
Terrorists, anti vaxxers, welfare freeloaders and flat earth anti semites all mixed together are bound to be an amazing recipe for success. The SF vote base us extremely soft and clearly not the types that’ll be waiting around “giving them a chance”- they’ll want very quick results indeed

Ah please don't tell us one of them is a flat earther.
That would complete the straight flush.