FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have no opinion of the man as I don't know him personally. I dislike the arrogance of the government he was a part of and the caretaker government he is now a part of.
Am I duty bound to accept answers from him? This ain't China or N. Korea.

I think he is a well meaning man. And as of the last 6 weeks he spoke not just as a Taoiseach but as a health professional.

He has put his other hat on, publicly. If only other parties did not have to hide thier true colours in double talk. The true decent Irish voter would welcome them into normal front bench politics, like a normal democratic party.

satguy

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Obviously you must have missed a lot.
FG bringing the country back to near full employment after the 08 crash.
FG bringing the country sensibly through the covid19 crisis.

Are you homeless now typing on whatever device you have?
When you were last in a hospital were you on a trolley?

Also are you really worried about 'the homeless' or 'people on trollies' ?
Or is it merely because you are trying to find problems to blame FG for?

I doubt many will be sitting on thier hands by the way. Most are too busy washing them for a start. Also thier are many in the dail at the moment with blood on thier hands, or covering for those with blood on thier hands.
Sometimes no amount of washing can remove that stain.

Once again, if you quote my OP,, you should note that it pre dates all this covid stuff by a long way.

It also pre dates any FG / FF talk,, Leo had said that FG would bow out for a while.

Only later did we realize that Micheál Martin suffers from stage fright, and will never lead a government. The 4 years of confidence and supply for Leo should have tipped us off.

Now FF having won more seats than FG, are still very very happy to see Leo address the nation tonight.

And with that,, we are now up to date.

McMurphy

Mortelaro wrote: »

That's because strykers stock yesterday was at the price I quoted and the analysis was from the declaration of the pandemic to date
That cannot be disputed and hasnt been by Smurgen
The commentary was from yesterday
Their stock is even after today up $8 dollars since the pandemic was declared
What it was doing prior to that or stocks in general is irrelevant
Fact is,its up since the pandemic started not down

But hey dont let that put you off your chief interest here,un substantiated digs
All indices are down today by the way but then some people are fond of talking here more of Chinese whispers, not facts just anything they know nothing about

Oh and my point on Stryker's plans for Cork stands too

Oh I have no clue whatsoever about strykers stocks and shares and which one of the pair of you is correct or incorrect, I have as much knowledge about (and precisely the same interest) in Guyana's bananas tbh.

I was however pointing out the stark difference in how the pair of you thrashed out their argument, with one linking to articles, the other saying their uncles brother told them so and that's that.


At this stage I still don't know which of you are correct/incorrect, and care less to boot.

McMurphy

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Obviously you must have missed a lot.
FG bringing the country back to near full employment after the 08 crash.
FG bringing the country sensibly through the covid19 crisis.

Are you homeless now typing on whatever device you have?
When you were last in a hospital were you on a trolley?

Also are you really worried about 'the homeless' or 'people on trollies' ?
Or is it merely because you are trying to find problems to blame FG for?

I doubt many will be sitting on thier hands by the way. Most are too busy washing them for a start. Also there are many in the dail at the moment with blood on thier hands, or covering for those with blood on thier hands.
Sometimes no amount of washing can remove that stain.

That post certainly had all the soundbites.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I think he is a well meaning man. And as of the last 6 weeks he spoke not just as a Taoiseach but as a health professional.

He has put his other hat on, publicly. If only other parties did not have to hide thier true colours in double talk. The true decent Irish voter would welcome them into normal front bench politics, like a normal democratic party.

There hasn't, to my knowledge, been a politician in this state who couldn't be called 'well meaning' by some. However.... (I think you can work out the rest.)

How cringeworthy is your - if only everybody could measure up to my hero's - lament though.

gormdubhgorm

satguy wrote: »

Once again, if you quote my OP,, you should note that it pre dates all this covid stuff by a long way.

It also pre dates any FG / FF talk,, Leo had said that FG would bow out for a while.

Only later did we realize that Micheál Martin suffers from stage fright, and will never lead a government. The 4 years of confidence and supply for Leo should have tipped us off.

Now FF having won more seats than FG, are still very very happy to see Leo address the nation tonight.

And with that,, we are now up to date.

Well in your OP you said FG did nothing for nine years which is clearly hyperbolic at best and silly at worst.

You know and I know that Leo will form a government for the 'good of the country' with FF and most likely the Greens.

Also, this covid19 has shown that elections and voters are really not relevant. The executive can function perfectly well in a crisis. Caretaker or not.
Also, it is the same Civil Service underneath the executive who have the real power in any case, as they make the nitty/gritty decisions.

McMurphy

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Also, this covid19 has shown that elections and voters are really not relevant. The executive can function perfectly well in a crisis. Caretaker or not.
Also, it is the same Civil Service underneath the executive who have the real power in any case, as they make the nitty/gritty decisions.

Are you saying FF and FG continually telling the electorate to vote for one over the other for years was all a big sham, and that it doesn't actually matter a shiny sh1te who gets voted in - as the civil service will be calling the shots regardless?

Weren't they telling us to vote for one over the other as the other would "bankrupt the country" (including the shinners)


The lying bastard's.

You're now suggesting no matter who gets in will only be a facade for the real civil service govt anyway. Not a very well thought out argument tbh gorm, definitely don't get into the election strategy game.

James Brown

Varadkar was sub par in every post he held. Now he has taken the mantle from Kenny overseeing record breaking crises. Is rude and arrogant when questioned. Lacks empathy and dodges questions. A smart ass.
Does he mean well? I don't think so. Nobody in FG does. Not one of them. You cannot over see worsening record breaking crises and think you are doing well or meaning to. They cannot be so stupid. They know what they are at. Looking after their own.
He's most effective when hes reading a script and ducking questions.
I'd say even he wonders how and why he's got the job he has.

atticu

McMurphy wrote: »

Oh I have no clue whatsoever about strykers stocks and shares and which one of the pair of you is correct or incorrect, I have as much knowledge about (and precisely the same interest) in Guyana's bananas tbh.


At this stage I still don't know which of you are correct/incorrect, and care less to boot.

I believe you, but your comment below does let you down.

McMurphy wrote: »

Fairplay smudge, and not even an acknowledgement from your doubter.

It might seem to some that you are taking sides, and that you do care, but I don’t think so.

McMurphy

atticu wrote: »

I believe you, but your comment below does let you down.




It might seem to some that you are taking sides, and that you do care, but I don’t think so.

I see your reading comprehension issues are being brought to the fore once again - you really should drop this bone you have, you just keep making yourself look far less intelligent than I know you probably are.

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

Oh I have no clue whatsoever about strykers stocks and shares and which one of the pair of you is correct or incorrect, I have as much knowledge about (and precisely the same interest) in Guyana's bananas tbh.

I was however pointing out the stark difference in how the pair of you thrashed out their argument, with one linking to articles, the other saying their uncles brother told them so and that's that.


At this stage I still don't know which of you are correct/incorrect, and care less to boot.

Oh,Smurgen linked to an article on Stryker' Cork plant did he?
News flash he didn't
He used anecdotes and generalization and I knew he was wrong

As for what you care less about,I know one thing, its pretty much immaterial

satguy

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well in your OP you said FG did nothing for nine years which is clearly hyperbolic at best and silly at worst.

After the 08 crash, things were bad for a while, but after a year or so the economic upturn happened in spite of FG. To the point that FG were passengers,, carried along by a global economic upturn.

Only the die hard FG fan boys think FG had a hand in our economic upturn.

In fact,, 2011 to 2018 are the years when FG had a final push to get the boss over the 10 Billion euro mark,, they even ropped The Labour Party in for a while, in what was a very one sided coalition,, a coalition that has since cost LAB half their seats.

McMurphy

Mortelaro wrote: »

Oh,Smurgen linked to an article on Stryker' Cork plant did he?
News flash he didn't
He used anecdotes and generalization and I knew he was wrong

As for what you care less about,I know one thing, its pretty much immaterial

Again, calm down and try reading what I actually posted and not what you think/hoped I posted in order for you to arrive at an already predetermined answer.

I never said he posted an article on Stryker (hint, what I posted is actually in the post of mine you quoted)

I was however pointing out the stark difference in how the pair of you thrashed out their argument, with one linking to articles, the other saying their uncles brother told them so and that's that.

Newsflash - did you tell me earlier something about needing your glasses to read certain pieces of text?

efanton

THe plan, such as it is , has been published.

https://www.gov.ie/en/news/58bc8b-taoiseach-announces-roadmap-for-reopening-society-and-business-and-u/?referrer=/roadmap/#phase-2-8-june



The highlights

These are proposed but each phase could be delayed on the medical advice from the National Public Health Emergency Team at the time in question.

Phase 1 (18 May)
allow outdoor meetings between a maximum of 4 people from different households while maintaning social distancing (keeping at least 2 metres away from each other)
open up childcare for healthcare workers
phased return of outdoor workers (for example: construction workers and gardeners)
open retailers which are primarily outdoor or those which were open during first level of restriction (for example: opticians)
opening of certain outdoor public amenities (for example: carparks, beaches, mountain walks where people can move around without coming into contact with each other and they keep at least 2 metres away from each other)
Open outdoor public sports amenities (for example: pitches, tennis courts, golf courses) where social distancing can be maintained

Phase 2 (8 June)
allow visits to households (visits to those who are cocooning can occur if all parties wear facemasks, gloves and maintain a distance of at least 2 metres away from each other)
develop plans and supports to open up business with consideration for safety of staff and customers
open small retail outlets and marts where social distancing can be observed
open public libraries

Phase 3 (29 June)
allow small social gatherings
opening of crèches, childminders and pre-schools for children of essential workers in phased manner
return to work for those with low levels of interaction
open non-essential retail outlets with street level entrance and exit
open playgrounds
allow “behind closed doors” sporting activities events where arrangements are in place to enable participants to maintain social distancing

Phase 4 (20 July)
opening of crèches, childminders and pre-schools for children of all other workers on a gradually increasing basis
return to work for those who cannot work from home
gradual easing of restrictions for higher risk services (for example: hairdressers)
opening of museums, galleries, places of worship
allow sports team leagues (for example: soccer and GAA) but only where limitations are placed on the numbers of spectators and where social distancing can be maintained

Phase 5 (10 August)
allow larger social gatherings
return to work across all sectors
on a phased basis, commencing at the beginning of the academic year 2020/2021, opening of primary and secondary schools and 3rd level institutions
further easing of restrictions on high risk retail services

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

Newsflash - did you tell me earlier something about needing your glasses to read certain pieces of text?

Haha Haha

The Golden Miller

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

He has put his other hat on, publicly. If only other parties did not have to hide thier true colours in double talk..

WTF are you on about lad? Vradakar, Kenny before him, and FG in general are the epitome of double talk. Don't think I've ever seen any of them answer a straight question in the Dail, while they sit their smirking and rolling their eye's

Good to know how many fools live in the country though. Making a few nicely polished and choreographed speeches is what being a great leader is all about apparently

Edgware

The Golden Miller wrote: »

WTF are you on about lad? Vradakar, Kenny before him, and FG in general are the epitome of double talk. Don't think I've ever seen any of them answer a straight question in the Dail, while they sit their smirking and rolling their eye's

Good to know how many fools live in the country though. Making a few nicely polished and choreographed speeches is what being a great leader is all about apparently

That's right. He should have finished it with a "Up the RA" like the usual wannabee Provo dirtbird

The Golden Miller

Edgware wrote: »

That's right. He should have finished it with a "Up the RA" like the usual wannabee Provo dirtbird

Someone criticise's FG, deflect to SF. How original. What was that we were saying about double talk.....

Edgware

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Someone criticise's FG, deflect to SF. How original. What was that we were saying about double talk.....

Just shows the standard he would have to stoop to keep McDonald's useful idiots happy

The Golden Miller

Edgware wrote: »

Just shows the standard he would have to stoop to keep McDonald's useful idiots happy

Sinn Fein, Sinn Fein, Sinn Fein. Anything else to say?

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I get that the caretaker government had to take the ball and run with it for a bit. But it is a caretaker government and it seems to have forgotten that. Ministers (some of them lost their seats) are able to question NPHET advice apparently but nobody else is.

What I don't get is why the exclusion of others is going on.
NPHET not releasing minutes, refusal to answer questions in the Dáil, bypassing the Dáil altogether (the 5 point plan being released tomorrow)

The 'arrogance of power'?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You would think the PR staff would have done more to remove the 'arrogant, it's our ball' image that hangs over the current FG party.

Oh, it is terrible alright. I wonder is there anything the other non FG TD's can do about this. :eek:

Hmmm, how about coming together to form an alternative government without FG?
All whinging and complaining aside, and it does grow tiring, if they really wanted to help they can get stuck in and take over.
Apart from that, anytime I hear Mary Lou speak now I just think that she wants to stay relevant in the current crisis.

markodaly

efanton wrote: »

What has being able to deliver a speech, no doubt written by someone else, got to do with leadership?

One can criticise policy I suppose, once of course alternatives are put in place, but this need to state that a speech was written by someone else is childish in my opinion.

Its Foxnews-esque type of criticism. I suppose because he looked sharp and competant was his due to his tailor. :rolleyes:

Lets be honest here, at this point in time there is no plan, its like everything else promised by this government, just a very vague suggestion something might happen, then then again it might not.

Being honest, you do not know, and you know that. Unless you are privy to cabinet meetings, which you are not.

This is what we know will happen and what is new.

• Current restrictions extended until 18 May
• People over 70 can go outside their homes from Tuesday
• 2km limit in place for exercise to be extended to 5km
• Schools to stay closed until September
• Outdoor workers will return to work in two weeks' time
• DIY and hardware stores to reopen from 18 May

Do you disagree with those measure or agree with them?

and then claim that there is a solid plan in place when its obvious there's no such thing is beyond a joke.

The plan at the moment has been outlined.

https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/2020/05/roadmap-for-reopening-society-business.pdf

I am not sure what else do you want?

Where is this plan. Surely it would have been published if it existed.

It exists. Here it is again.
https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/2020/05/roadmap-for-reopening-society-business.pdf

Surely he would be far better off saying nothing and actually getting something done.

Like working on this plan?
https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/2020/05/roadmap-for-reopening-society-business.pdf

The man is a charlatan, and has been since he took over from Enda Kenny. He was going to fix the health service, the over crowding in hospitals, homelessness was his number one priority, he even promised to build 6000 social homes a year and couldn't even manage that. Now he claims he will provide in excess of 20,000 homes a year if the FF/FG coalition ever gets off the ground. He promised to ramp up testing to 100,000 a week, he's going to deliver all those promises in the framework document, deliver the Green polices and do all that as promised without raising tax or USC.

So you used the last few points to prepare us for an anti-Leo Varradkar rant. Grand, work away.

The sooner the Green's tell him to sling his hook the better.
What we have in Leo is not a leader, but an ego maniac that just loves the PR but not actually able to deliver one single promise he has ever made that I can tell.

Here is the plan again, case you missed it.
https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/2020/05/roadmap-for-reopening-society-business.pdf

markodaly

efanton wrote: »

Where is this plan he talks of? Why hasn't it been published?

I see no reason why this plan cant be published for all to see.

Im not a betting man, but if I was I would be tempted to put down a hefty wager that May 18th will arrive and there will still be no solid plan published.

Posted last night at 21:33

Stay away from the bookings, they will take you to the cleaners.
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.

62 minutes later..

efanton wrote: »

THe plan, such as it is , has been published.

.. I honestly don't know what to say...:p

Suckit

markodaly wrote: »

One can criticise policy I suppose, once of course alternatives are put in place, but this need to state that a speech was written by someone else is childish in my opinion.

Its Foxnews-esque type of criticism. I suppose because he looked sharp and competant was his due to his tailor.

He was found to be wasting tax payers money before, trying to make himself look good, and the first thing he does with his 'extension' during a crisis, is waste a bit more.
How anybody can have any faith in somebody who has none in himself is beyond me.
Hiring Geoghegan to write his speeches shows how much Leo is not a man with ideas, not a leader, and how he values how he is perceived above anything else.
Those speeches when broken down don't actually say anything, they are just a waste of whatever money he is paying to try and look good. I believe the last time it averaged at almost half a million per month to bullsh*t the public.
This time given the circumstances it's probably more.
I suppose, once he realised how useless he really is, and Nphet/HSE took over, he had the perfect opportunity to spend a bit more time spinning and get some ideas from them.
"Get on the front line phones, look like you're doing something"..
He's largely unlikeable, so it shouldn't really be a surprise how much he spends to try and look good, only it's our money.
This pandemic won't last forever, and wasting money won't be tolerated for very long when it is.
Leo's ratings will drop massively when the spin is taken away from him (again).

efanton

markodaly wrote: »

Posted last night at 21:33

Stay away from the bookings, they will take you to the cleaners.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

62 minutes later..



.. I honestly don't know what to say...:p

Maybe because it wasnt there earlier when I looked for it.

What we have at the moment is an outline.
I genuinely hope they get everything finalised before then, but their past record doesnt say much. Lets hope the pressure is on and they deliver.

Leo was promising 100,000 test per week a month ago despite being advised that it would not be not possible. Last week what was it? about 40k.


I wouldnt count your chickens yet.

Apparently Leo is still doing his solo runs.

In a rare move, ministers were not given the advice from the NPHET ahead of time, with priority given to ensuring that the exact details of the document didn’’t leak before the Taoiseach Leo Varadkar could give his address to the nation, which was not followed by questions from the media.

Why he would do that is strange unless he doesnt even trust his own cabinet or ministers.

It is understood that while a slight majority of the cabinet was in favour of easing the restrictions before Friday, the National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) advice has been followed "nearly to the letter".

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/lengthy-deliberations-sees-cabinet-sign-off-on-101-day-covid-19-recovery-plan-997283.html




It also seem Simon Coveney has be going solo too.
https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/farming-news/keelings-contacted-coveney-directly-as-it-set-up-flight-for189-bulgarian-fruit-pickers-39172578.html

Tánaiste Simon Coveney was contacted directly by Keelings before the company flew in 189 seasonal workers from Bulgaria during the Covid-19 lockdown, the Irish Independent has confirmed.

The controversy over the seasonal workers flying into the country was described by Taoiseach Leo Varadkar as a "debacle" yesterday.

Mr Coveney's links to the Keelings family are well known.


Lets hope that now they have put together a script everyone sticks to it.

efanton

Suckit wrote: »

He was found to be wasting tax payers money before, trying to make himself look good, and the first thing he does with his 'extension' during a crisis, is waste a bit more.
How anybody can have any faith in somebody who has none in himself is beyond me.
Hiring Geoghegan to write his speeches shows how much Leo is not a man with ideas, not a leader, and how he values how he is perceived above anything else.
Those speeches when broken down don't actually say anything, they are just a waste of whatever money he is paying to try and look good. I believe the last time it averaged at almost half a million per month to bullsh*t the public.
This time given the circumstances it's probably more.
I suppose, once he realised how useless he really is, and Nphet/HSE took over, he had the perfect opportunity to spend a bit more time spinning and get some ideas from them.
"Get on the front line phones, look like you're doing something"..
He's largely unlikeable, so it shouldn't really be a surprise how much he spends to try and look good, only it's our money.
This pandemic won't last forever, and wasting money won't be tolerated for very long when it is.
Leo's ratings will drop massively when the spin is taken away from him (again).

Dont worry, they are still at it. Leo had to get rid of his 'communications Unit' but it seems there's another slush found for ministers to hire private PR companies instead of using the government's own press office.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/tds-use-allowance-scheme-to-claim-13m-for-pr-work-997272.html

smurgen

efanton wrote: »

Dont worry, they are still at it. Leo had to get rid of his 'communications Unit' but it seems there's another slush found for ministers to hire private PR companies instead of using the government's own press office.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/tds-use-allowance-scheme-to-claim-13m-for-pr-work-997272.html

Sure there's plenty of journalists out there acting like paid government mouthpieces at this stage. Couldn't get over this one.

https://twitter.com/irishexaminer/status/1255943385648488448?s=19

I dunno why but I thought back to the mother and child homes and the discussion after all that came out. After years of gaslighting and playing down by the mouthpieces and women and their families being called liars the optics were changed by the government cheerleaders to "sure where were their families?" And "sure we all knew, society is to blame". Yet here we are , we don't know what's going on in alot of care homes,topics like open airports,PPE, testing etc and we're being criticized and ridiculed for asking questions.

McMurphy

The Examiner reporting that the greens are on the verge of splitting up, they're divided into cliques apparently, with many threatening to go off and become independents if Ryan insists on entering govt.

Listening to Catherine Martin yesterday it wouldn't be surprising if it emerges she is leading the heave against it.

Michaél, Eamon and Leo are the current leaders of their party's, not so sure that will still be the case come Christmas 2020 I reckon.

smurgen

smurgen wrote: »

Sure there's plenty of journalists out there acting like paid government mouthpieces at this stage. Couldn't get over this one.

https://twitter.com/irishexaminer/status/1255943385648488448?s=19

I dunno why but I thought back to the mother and child homes and the discussion after all that came out. After years of gaslighting and playing down by the mouthpieces and women and their families being called liars the optics were changed by the government cheerleaders to "sure where were their families?" And "sure we all knew, society is to blame". Yet here we are , we don't know what's going on in alot of care homes,topics like open airports,PPE, testing etc and we're being criticized and ridiculed for asking questions.

You could say that Mother and child homes existed because families didn’t want to deal with their unmarried, pregnant child and Nursing homes exist because families don’t want to deal with their elderly parents. So, asking “sure where were their families” is a fair question but one that many won’t want to answer. Personal responsibility and all that jazz.

is_that_so

McMurphy wrote: »

The Examiner reporting that the greens are on the verge of splitting up, they're divided into cliques apparently, with many threatening to go off and become independents if Ryan insists on entering govt.

Listening to Catherine Martin yesterday it wouldn't be surprising if it emerges she is leading the heave against it.

Michaél, Eamon and Leo are the current leaders of their party's, not so sure that will still be the case come Christmas 2020 I reckon.

Most of the red lines for the Greens are doable. If they are not addressed in government they can walk. There is an absence of that concept of political maturity even if some of them just think it's our way or the high road. I can understand their reticence on the grounds of fear and principle but it a good time to show what they can do.

In a new election FG will unquestionably rebound off this and FF can gain as well. That means probable lost seats for the Greens and it's better to go down for what you did do than for what you didn't.