FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

You'd need a magician to remove 80 odd votes against
A wave of a wand I suppose
Whoosh.. Abbra Cadabra
We wont mention any puff of smoke

You forgot the 'it's my opinion' preamble to that post.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What data are you basing that on?

80% didn't vote for FG to be in government.
76% didn't vote for SF to be in government.

Your whole premise is fundamentally flawed.

Ireland has a PR-STV system first and foremost so its possible and reasonable to vote for multiple parties to be in government, as that how our electoral system works.

Coalition governments are well, a coalition. Ireland has not had a majority government since the 1977 election of Jack lynch. Well over 40 years ago.
Its inane nonsense to be talking about voting preferences in this way.

76% of people did not vote for SF in the Assembly elections of 2017, yet there they are in government, and that is a FPTP system to boot!

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Who is FG following home, as we're on topic? FYI: Flanagan's father, a FG TD, was openly antisemitic. True story.
I have no party. I'd merrily vote SD/SF/PBP and a smattering of others with the same vigor.
I very much support FG's Coveney on Israeli matters.

Didn't the IRA, supported at the time by Sinn Fein, attempt to blow up Flanagan's dad on one occasion? A garda died preventing that bombing.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

Didn't the IRA, supported at the time by Sinn Fein, attempt to blow up Flanagan's dad on one occasion? A garda died preventing that bombing.

No

They booby trapped a house,gave tip-off a bomb being built....garda clerkin climbed in window and triggered the bomb

It was a trap,but not an attempt to assinate flanagan.....like the truth is sketchy enough without misrepresenting it for internet pints

(Nearly sure rte also done documentry on this aswell)

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Oh look, a deflection.

You can have any opinion you want on the success of this move, knock yourself out with the disparaging and sniping it, I would expect no less.

What you cannot do is portray FF/FG/Greens effort as a 'last resort' no matter how much you try to deflect. Sorry for your troubles.

Probably the only resort short of another election!
Anyway you dress it up BTW, its another example of the so called party's for change not being able to agree on that change, they duped their supporters and voters once again and have effectively gone into hiding and voiding themselves of responsibility.
All this while still managing to blame those taking some responsibility and making an effort to govern for their exclusion.
It's cute hoorism politics at its best.

Jinglejangle69

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Probably the only resort short of another election!
Anyway you dress it up BTW, its another example of the so called party's for change not being able to agree on that change, they duped their supporters and voters once again and have effectively gone into hiding and voiding themselves of responsibility.
All this while still managing to blame those taking some responsibility and making an effort to govern for their exclusion.
It's cute hoorism politics at its best.

Spot on.

The people want change.

SF and the left are unable to deliver it.

What a con job.

Triangle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The only vote for a Taoiseach in the Dáil that I am aware of saw MLMD of SF get the highest number of votes.

And a game it is. A month ago The Greens categorically ruled out a coalition with FF and FG. And yet tomorrow they enter formal talks with FG and FF..

Absolutely untrue, a month ago the greens were pushing for a unity government, at that time.
They have always said they will speak to anyone about forming a government. They were just unsure of FFs and FGs commitment to promises.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/green-party-sticks-with-position-on-national-unity-government-1.4217946

Edgware

Its all wrong. Three parties with a total of 84 seats are looking to form a government and not letting another party with 37 seats take control.

Triangle

Edgware wrote: »

Its all wrong. Three parties with a total of 84 seats are looking to form a government and not letting another party with 37 seats take control.

Only two of them have ruled out talking to the 37 seat party.
Please don't muddy the waters by insinuating the greens are excluding anyone.

Hubertj

Edgware wrote: »

Its all wrong. Three parties with a total of 84 seats are looking to form a government and not letting another party with 37 seats take control.

couldn't agree with you more. This whole democracy thing is a disgrace. i just can't believe that democratically elected politicians are entering talks to form a government to lead the country out of the worst recession of modern times.

there should be protests on the streets demanding change.

McMurphy

Triangle wrote: »

Absolutely untrue, a month ago the greens were pushing for a unity government, at that time.
They have always said they will speak to anyone about forming a government. They were just unsure of FFs and FGs commitment to promises.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/green-party-sticks-with-position-on-national-unity-government-1.4217946

A unity govt isn't the same thing as a coalition with FF/G.

Snow Garden

The general election was on February the 8th.

Our political system is such a shambles.

Triangle

McMurphy wrote: »

A unity govt isn't the same thing as a coalition with FF/G.

The previous poster I was replying to said that the greens excluded FF and FG a month ago.
At that time they were pushing for a unity government and stated that was their preference at that time
There's a big difference in what they said and the previous poster saying they did a U turn.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Your whole premise is fundamentally flawed.

Ireland has a PR-STV system first and foremost so its possible and reasonable to vote for multiple parties to be in government, as that how our electoral system works.

Coalition governments are well, a coalition. Ireland has not had a majority government since the 1977 election of Jack lynch. Well over 40 years ago.
Its inane nonsense to be talking about voting preferences in this way.

76% of people did not vote for SF in the Assembly elections of 2017, yet there they are in government, and that is a FPTP system to boot!

I was responding to somebody 'jumping to conclusions' based on SF's vote and using their 'logic'.

Why did you not respond to their 'logic' first if you think it is flawed? Would it be that you too are happy with it because eh...you are happy with it when it reflects well on FG?

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Probably the only resort short of another election!
Anyway you dress it up BTW, its another example of the so called party's for change not being able to agree on that change, they duped their supporters and voters once again and have effectively gone into hiding and voiding themselves of responsibility.
All this while still managing to blame those taking some responsibility and making an effort to govern for their exclusion.
It's cute hoorism politics at its best.

:D:D:D 'duped' their supporters?

'I will not go into coalition with SF or FG?'

That kind of 'duping'?

'Saying that you would try to form a government of the left' is duping nobody.

And then you mention 'cute hoorism'...:)

FrancieBrady

Triangle wrote: »

The previous poster I was replying to said that the greens excluded FF and FG a month ago.
At that time they were pushing for a unity government and stated that was their preference at that time
There's a big difference in what they said and the previous poster saying they did a U turn.

March 25th

The Green Party has categorically ruled out any government formation talks with Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael as the Covid-19 crisis continues.

Neasa Hourigan, the Greens’ whip and finance spokeswoman, said the focus of politicians should now be “completely on public health and safety”.

“We have reached a very clear decision and consensus [within the Greens] that we will not be engaging in anything other than discussions for a unity or national government,” Ms Hourigan said.

She was adamant the decision was final. “We have decided as a group there will be no other type of decision from our side,” she said.

Ms Hourigan said the party has rejected the option of a narrower coalition involving Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, or with Independents.


Setting out the party’s opposition to coalition talks with Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, Ms Hourigan said forming such a government would be disruptive and would run counter to dealing with the national emergency caused by Covid-19.

There has also been strong internal opposition to such a government among the Green membership on the basis that it would not sufficiently reflect the change agenda expressed by voters in the General Election on February 8th.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So what 'magician' waved a wand a month ago and got The Greens into formal talks when they had categorically ruled it out?

It is clear things/positions/wants can change in a heartbeat.

But no...your 'opinion' trumps the facts.

Oh that?
No magician required there,just a vote of their parliamentary party
8:4 I believe
Thats a fact

McMurphy

Triangle wrote: »

The previous poster I was replying to said that the greens excluded FF and FG a month ago.
At that time they were pushing for a unity government and stated that was their preference at that time
There's a big difference in what they said and the previous poster saying they did a U turn.

A national government of unity isn't the same thing as a coalition with a couple of party's comprising predominantly with FFG and the greens, you realise this yeah?

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Oh that?
No magician required there,just a vote of their parliamentary party
8:4 I believe
Thats a fact

No such thing as a 'magician', just sleight of hand and a gullible mind or viewer.

What will be required is 'cute hoorism of the power swap parties', the willful stupidity/avarice of a party's leadership and disregard for the party's future and a few motorway bypasses and re-opened Garda stations for the opportunists'.

A potted history of coalition in the 100 year old power swap. No 'magic' necessary.

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

A national government of unity isn't the same thing as a coalition with a couple of party's comprising predominantly with FFG and the greens, you realise this yeah?

Oh its probably a u turn or more accurately a reflective change of mind because it was discussed at length and voted on 8:4
It still mightn't reach agreement or if it does,it mightn't pass a members vote

One thing we all can't say about the greens is they lack internal democracy

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Oh its probably a u turn or more accurately a reflective change of mind because it was discussed at length and voted on 8:4
It still mightn't reach agreement or if it does,it mightn't pass a members vote

One thing we all can't say about the greens is they lack internal democracy

Yeh...I think the person they voted into the leadership position actually got the job.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No 'magic' necessary.

Yup,just your opinion again
Other opinions may vary

RandomViewer

How will FF/FG come looking for votes in rural areas when the Greens demand animals culled, no house building, no turf or log burning and no diesel cars.
How will Dublin function with the 24/7 protests blocking all the main routes. This last kick of Michael Martin to be Taoiseach is a recipe for disaster .

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Yup,just your opinion again
Other opinions may vary

You believe 'magicians' are real? Okie doke.


Watch this hat....

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You believe 'magicians' are real? Okie doke.


Watch this hat....

I thought I made that clear last night
You're a bit tetchy today ...
But don't worry, we're all here for you

FrancieBrady

RandomViewer wrote: »

How will FF/FG come looking for votes in rural areas when the Greens demand animals culled, no house building, no turf or log burning and no diesel cars.
How will Dublin function with the 24/7 protests blocking all the main routes. This last kick of Michael Martin to be Taoiseach is a recipe for disaster .

Because the Greens are past masters at this. They will sit in government and play the frustrated saviours, not getting what they want but happy to get the chance to lecture us all from the comfy seats, including their coalition partners.

It's kind how they roll, not expecting anything different tbh, because you are right about what would happen if they got their way.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because the Greens are past masters at this. They will sit in government and play the frustrated saviours, not getting what they want but happy to get the chance to lecture us all from the comfy seats, including their coalition partners.

It's kind how they roll, not expecting anything different tbh, because you are right about what would happen if they got their way.

I see so I take it you don't want them in the Sinn Féin fantasy government either?
Coalition's work on agreed programme's for government
That will have to pass a green member vote first and crucially other parties
For the latter to happen, the programme cannot be seen to be too damaging to rural Ireland
Let's see if they can compromise shall we?
Going on the loud halo positioning, it seems like a gargantuan task
But then so did the good friday agreement
In negotiations many things are possible

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

I see so I take it you don't want them in the Sinn Féin fantasy government either?

I don't want anybody in government who has welched on core principles. I understand and agree that compromises do have to be made and have been made.

I think when your core principles have been ignored or purposefully denied that you should walk away from that government because staying in there does more damage than a collapse of government does.

The history of coalitions in this country have 100% involved the two power swap parties and it isn't hard to see what happens to smaller parties. It's all there for review in our history.

RandomViewer

Mortelaro wrote: »

I see so I take it you don't want them in the Sinn Féin fantasy government either?
Coalition's work on agreed programme's for government
That will have to pass a green member vote first and crucially other parties
For the latter to happen, the programme cannot be seen to be too damaging to rural Ireland
Let's see if they can compromise shall we?
Going on the loud halo positioning, it seems like a gargantuan task
But then so did the good friday agreement
In negotiations many things are possible

E amonn Ryan is anti rural , they'll want to hit it hard early to make their mark, something big like total ban on turf and logs and a push to remove industries from rural areas,forget about road funding or IDA grants. His shuts talk about energy grants is crap, neither the state or the householder has the funds to pay for it so fuel starvation and emigration for rural Ireland while the twit is chauffeured around in a Tesla

FrancieBrady

RandomViewer wrote: »

E amonn Ryan is anti rural , they'll want to hit it hard early to make their mark, something big like total ban on turf and logs and a push to remove industries from rural areas,forget about road funding or IDA grants. His shuts talk about energy grants is crap, neither the state or the householder has the funds to pay for it so fuel starvation and emigration for rural Ireland while the twit is chauffeured around in a Tesla

Is he not keeping the diesel yoke?