FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

christy c

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FF and FG have swapped power between them for better or for worse. Fact.

LOL, the electorate CHOSE to hand power to either FG or FF for years.

FrancieBrady

christy c wrote: »

Another lad that has picked it up backwards. You will have seen that my point was that if the electorate choosing SF in the north is the benchmark of success, then the same metric should have been applied to FF and FG who for years won over the electorate. I am not disputing that their support had fallen off a cliff in recent years.

Who said they were not successful? Who said that it was anything other than the electorate choosing them?

You are far too sensitive on this point christy.

christy c

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who said they were not successful? Who said that it was anything other than the electorate choosing them?

You are far too sensitive on this point christy.

What has sensitivity got to do with this? More rubbish from you.

You were and are using the term power swap as a negative, when fact it was their success that lead to them being the biggest two parties until the last GE.

Anyway over and out.

Jinglejangle69

christy c wrote: »

What has sensitivity got to do with this? More rubbish from you.

You were and are using the term power swap as a negative, when fact it was their success that lead to them being the biggest two parties until the last GE.

Anyway over and out.

For your sanity I'd advise that C.

FrancieBrady

christy c wrote: »

What has sensitivity got to do with this? More rubbish from you.

You were and are using the term power swap as a negative, when fact it was their success that lead to them being the biggest two parties until the last GE.

Anyway over and out.

Yes, I use it as a negative...when it is a negative. And it has been...the electorate is saying it clearly.

christy c

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

For your sanity I'd advise that C.

Thanks, I'm fine that way but it's just that you could waste so much time arguing with people who seem to do it for the sake of it.

FrancieBrady

And yet another concerted attempt to divert/deflect the thread.

If you think there are bots, a massive nefarious conspiracy by the Journal.ie/Boards/Gurry Adams and the old bearded men in the Antrim Hills...contact the mods.

James Brown

christy c wrote: »

Another lad that has picked it up backwards. You will have seen that my point was that if the electorate choosing SF in the north is the benchmark of success, then the same metric should have been applied to FF and FG who for years won over the electorate. I am not disputing that their support had fallen off a cliff in recent years.

Wasn't talking on you Christy, was generalising about the pro FG shtick both from politicians and online.
As regards the north it wasnt so long ago it was looking like others outside of SF and the DUP were making in-roads but alas we'd seen that flounder before. I'm all for more choice with a viable chance at power.
Down south SF doing well is a good sign and if it were another party with similar politics and not SF I'd be just as pleased. Its good for us IMO.

I recommend you read back over the last few pages and see who is and isn't being bitter while spouting PR and spin instead of discussing topics.

christy c

Bowie wrote: »

Wasn't talking on you Christy, was generalising about the pro FG shtick both from politicians and online.
As regards the north it wasnt so long ago it was looking like others outside of SF and the DUP were making in-roads but alas we'd seen that flounder before. I'm all for more choice with a viable chance at power.
Down south SF doing well is a good sign and if it were another party with similar politics and not SF I'd be just as pleased. Its good for us IMO.

Well you replied to a poster that was talking about me, but I'll take you at face value on this occasion.

I disagree with SF doing well as being good for us, in many ways they're similar to the Bertie era of reckless spending and eroding our income. This is not an endorsement of FG or any other party, but it would have been nice if the party that emerged from the ashes had a grounding in reality. Unfortunately we still have the same poor choices, just under different badges.

James Brown

christy c wrote: »

Well you replied to a poster that was talking about me, but I'll take you at face value on this occasion.

I disagree with SF doing well as being good for us, in many ways they're similar to the Bertie era of reckless spending and eroding our income. This is not an endorsement of FG or any other party, but it would have been nice if the party that emerged from the ashes had a grounding in reality. Unfortunately we still have the same poor choices, just under different badges.

I don't care if you do or don't. I don't know why anyone would bother pretending. You can tell by the words I used what I was saying.

Very different policies on housing. Depends on what you want. Maybe a competent FG that represent the tax payer? I recall FG wanted FF to spend more, more goodies during the Bertie years. Only Labour were calling for restraint. Yet here we have FF and FG getting cosy.
So maybe instead of avoiding SF because you think they are similar to FF, you should be weary of FG who have been in bed with FF since the election before last.

christy c

Bowie wrote: »

I don't care if you do or don't. I don't know why anyone would bother pretending. You can tell by the words I used what I was saying.

Very different policies on housing. Depends on what you want. Maybe a competent FG that represent the tax payer? I recall FG wanted FF to spend more, more goodies during the Bertie years. Only Labour were calling for restraint. Yet here we have FF and FG getting cosy.
So maybe instead of avoiding SF because you think they are similar to FF, you should be weary of FG who have been in bed with FF since the election before last.

I'm wary of them all, and always did choose who I voted for as best of a bad lot, unpleasant as that may be. And I have said to you before I am getting sick of FG, so please dont try to pretend this is me just being a shill as you described me before.

I avoid SF because of the crap they promise to do, not because I think they are like FF. Pension and tax proposals being some of the standouts.

FrancieBrady

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

What do you mean on their own?

As in they can't be trusted?

My preferred method/system of government anywhere is a proper coalition.
Yes, because there are trust issues, but I also happen to think when working properly they deliver fairer more balanced governance.

James Brown

christy c wrote: »

I'm wary of them all, and always did choose who I voted for as best of a bad lot, unpleasant as that may be. And I have said to you before I am getting sick of FG, so please dont try to pretend this is me just being a shill as you described me before.

I avoid SF because of the crap they promise to do, not because I think they are like FF. Pension and tax proposals being some of the standouts.

Why are you intent on discussing Sinn Fein when FG are criticised in a FG thread? They don't cancel each other out.
I explained why I believe FG are seen as uncaring. I gave examples. It was followed by numerous people intent on discussing SF. That's cool and all but very tedious for me.
Then you get put in a position where you call out the diversion and get labeled a shinner, which is fine by me, I couldn't care less. Then the insults come in. You're a shinner, shinners are scum etc. Anything to dodge the discussion.
FF destroyed the country twice in my lifetime. FG got in in 2011 on the back of FF's failure yet a few short years later went into bed with them and are doing so again. Of course FG have their own faults and I see why you don't like SF but I don't see why that's some kind of excuse for voting FG or whomever.

FrancieBrady

Bowie wrote: »

Why are you intent on discussing Sinn Fein when FG are criticised in a FG thread? They don't cancel each other out.
I explained why I believe FG are seen as uncaring. I gave examples. It was followed by numerous people intent on discussing SF. That's cool and all but very tedious for me.
Then you get put in a position where you call out the diversion and get labeled a shniner, which us fine by me, I couldn't care less.
FF destroyed the country twice in my lifetime. FG got in in 2011 on the back of FF's failure yet a few short years later went into bed with them and are doing so again. Of course FG have their own faults and I see why you don't like SF but I don't see why that's some kind of excuse for voting FG or whomever.

FG got in on the promise of 'new politics' in 2011 and failed miserably in delivering them. They have dropped to their lowest ever vote as a result.

James Brown

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FG got in on the promise of 'new politics' in 2011 and failed miserably in delivering them. They have dropped to their lowest ever vote as a result.

That's why itl'l be a long time before they see any support from me. I often gave them a nod. A friend of mines sibling was a FG TD up to recently. I know people who canvass for FG. Yet try have an adult discussion on here and you get a mile of nonsense for being a shinner. I've said before if the boys started on about PBP instead of SF they'd get much the same responses except we'd all be PBP'ers or something.
That's what I was saying to you earlier. They are their own worse enemy. Its irritating but good for the country as it speeds their decline.

christy c

Bowie wrote: »

Why are you intent on discussing Sinn Fein when FG are criticised in a FG thread? They don't cancel each other out.
I explained why I believe FG are seen as uncaring. I gave examples. It was followed by numerous people intent on discussing SF. That's cool and all but very tedious for me.
Then you get put in a position where you call out the diversion and get labeled a shniner, which us fine by me, I couldn't care less.
FF destroyed the country twice in my lifetime. FG got in in 2011 on the back of FF's failure yet a few short years later went into bed with them and are doing so again. Of course FG have their own faults and I see why you don't like SF but I don't see why that's some kind of excuse for voting FG or whomever.

Tbf the FG and SF threads are interchangeable, its difficult to tell one from the other. Its not a deliberate attempt by me to deflect.

It's pointless discussing any particular party in a vacum, as I said I choose the least worst. So for example if party X punched me in the face, theres no point spending ages saying how terrible they are if party Y promise to shoot me in the head.

Again I vote based on best of a bad lot, so if you see the reasons why I dont like SF, you could see how I would end up voting someone else (even if you dont agree with it).

efanton

what does everyone think of the current situation?

At the weekend we heard civil servants are working towards some process or protocol so that elections can take place if they are necessary.

FF seem to be completely on edge, acting as if they are going to be double crossed at any minute, this might be paranoia, but there might be some justification for this stance.

Eamon O Cuív, never a supporter of this coalition in the first place, seems to think FF will not get party member support for the coalition.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/fianna-fails-eamon-o-cuiv-doubts-programme-for-government-will-get-party-support-1000255.html


All does not appear to be well in the FG camp either. Coveney's uncharacteristic outburst last week about the green demand for a 7% carbon reduction each year, and now today reports that he is “showing signs of major strain” at the talks

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/simon-coveney-showing-signs-of-major-strain-during-government-formation-talks-1000567.html

Minister for Rural and Community Development Michael Ring is understood to have told the meeting on Monday evening that the grassroots of the party don’t want the proposed coalition with Fianna Fáil and that the general public don’t have an appetite for it either.

He is also understood to have said that Fine Gael needs to prepare its candidates for an election as quickly as possible.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fine-gael-needs-to-prepare-for-election-party-meeting-told-1.4256624


This week the talks are mostly about the Greens climate change proposals, which will be the biggest stumbling block for all three parties to get passed. With a 2/3 majority vote required from the Green party members to support joining a coalition will the Green's get what they need to join a coalition


So do you think this negotiation process is going to go horribly wrong close to the last fence or will FF and FG party members suck it up and vote in favour in order to avoid another general election? Will they instead seek a new election?

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FG got in on the promise of 'new politics' in 2011 and failed miserably in delivering them. They have dropped to their lowest ever vote as a result.

Kind of pulling the country out of a very deep hole, a chara.

ninebeanrows

Leo needs to take the bull by the horns and go to the country.

A coalition with FF is lose lose for both parties.

It's good for the country as will offer some stability but one if the parties will be canibalissed.

If Leo went to the country he could ironically save both FG and FF regardless whether he gets to govern or SF do

Bishop of hope

Bowie wrote: »

That's why itl'l be a long time before they see any support from me. I often gave them a nod. A friend of mines sibling was a FG TD up to recently. I know people who canvass for FG. Yet try have an adult discussion on here and you get a mile of nonsense for being a shinner. I've said before if the boys started on about PBP instead of SF they'd get much the same responses except we'd all be PBP'ers or something.
That's what I was saying to you earlier. They are their own worse enemy. Its irritating but good for the country as it speeds their decline.

How do you figure it's better for the country?
There is no new politics, just different politicians and until we get a Govt without FG or FF then your post is just pure conjecture.
I can't wait for the day SF coalesce with either FF or FG, then I wonder how the non shinner shinners will be able to point to the positives of that.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

That's why itl'l be a long time before they see any support from me. I often gave them a nod. A friend of mines sibling was a FG TD up to recently. I know people who canvass for FG. Yet try have an adult discussion on here and you get a mile of nonsense for being a shinner. I've said before if the boys started on about PBP instead of SF they'd get much the same responses except we'd all be PBP'ers or something.
That's what I was saying to you earlier. They are their own worse enemy. Its irritating but good for the country as it speeds their decline.

How can it be good for the country if FF and FG are in decline when many of the other options (except for Labour and the Greens) are far far worse?

Bishop of hope

blanch152 wrote: »

How can it be good for the country if FF and FG are in decline when many of the other options (except for Labour and the Greens) are far far worse?

Surely if you're a shinner from the pool on here anyway, you couldn't possibly want a coalition with either FF or FG.
Yet you can criticise them for not including SF in their negotiations, the hypocrisy runs deep in this thread.

mattser

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Surely if you're a shinner from the pool on here anyway, you couldn't possibly want a coalition with either FF or FG.
Yet you can criticise them for not including SF in their negotiations, the hypocrisy runs deep in this thread.

Yea. They spend all day here as a relay team spouting the same scutter. Total hypocrites.

Brendan Bendar

mattser wrote: »

Yea. They spend all day here as a relay team spouting the same scutter. Total hypocrites.

That’s for sure..... negativity central.

All ‘calling for this’ ‘calling for that’ the govt must do this that and and the divil and all.

And doing sweet fanny adams (no pun intended).

Shot their bolt long ago.

Jinglejangle69

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Surely if you're a shinner from the pool on here anyway, you couldn't possibly want a coalition with either FF or FG.
Yet you can criticise them for not including SF in their negotiations, the hypocrisy runs deep in this thread.

Sure Mary Lou said FF or FG in government would be a disaster.

Yet she Rants and raves that they won't talk to SF?

So she's happy to facilitate what she describes as a disaster for the country???

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Surely if you're a shinner from the pool on here anyway, you couldn't possibly want a coalition with either FF or FG.
Yet you can criticise them for not including SF in their negotiations, the hypocrisy runs deep in this thread.

I didn't vote for them to coalesce with FF or FG tbh. I understand that that might have to happen though.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didn't vote for them to coalesce with FF or FG tbh. I understand that that might have to happen though.

Like FF and FG voters so

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Like FF and FG voters so

FF voters were promised that there would be no coalition with FG though.

Redgirl82

Bowie wrote: »

That's why itl'l be a long time before they see any support from me. I often gave them a nod. A friend of mines sibling was a FG TD up to recently. I know people who canvass for FG. Yet try have an adult discussion on here and you get a mile of nonsense for being a shinner. I've said before if the boys started on about PBP instead of SF they'd get much the same responses except we'd all be PBP'ers or something.
That's what I was saying to you earlier. They are their own worse enemy. Its irritating but good for the country as it speeds their decline.

You didn't even read the Sinn Fein Manifesto and you voted for them. Which suggest you read none of the parties manifesto's.

Yet you are on here everyday as if you are a political expert.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FF voters were promised that there would be no coalition with FG though.

Sinn Fein voters were promised FF in government would be a disaster though